Potential great loopers!

Hi, we finally decided to find time and do the great loop. I still have to work, but can take leave.

We also decided to become liveaboard and get rid of all our crap!

So, we're looking generally for either Albin 36 Double Cabin or Marine Trader 34 Double Cabin.

Our requirements are:
- low GPH
- Interior in great condition
- Exterior can have cosmetic work needed, willing to be put effort to get a better deal, as long as the boat is sound

If you know of any leads us know!

Thanks!

Thanks!

Greetings,
Welcome aboard eh?

Hi Steph, welcome. Where would you keep a liveaboard boat in Toronto, Bluffers or do you intend to go south in the winter?? If you come through the Trent doing the loop give us a shout, we are in Beaverton on Lake Simcoe. Cheers!

LaBomba said:

Hi Steph, welcome. Where would you keep a liveaboard boat in Toronto, Bluffers or do you intend to go south in the winter?? If you come through the Trent doing the loop give us a shout, we are in Beaverton on Lake Simcoe. Cheers!

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Yes, Bluffers park...we will spend one winter here, and then next year (fall 2015) would head down...

And thank for the warm welcome, eh?! ;-)

A little smaller but I am listing my Albin 27FC. If it is something you would consider shoot me a PM. She has a trailer so that may be a plus.

Steph, one thing to take in to consideration is air height. For the canal systems, Trent and Erie, there are some fixed bridges. Generally the lowest are between 20 and 22 ft. so a boat just less than 20 ft. is ideal or one that has a mast that is easily lowered. I cut my mast 5 ft. for that specific reason. Have a look at this Tolleycraft in Windsor, I thought if I were in the market this looked like a nice vessel at a reasonable price.

43 ft. TOLLYCRAFT COCKPIT MOTOR YACHT | powerboats, motorboats | Windsor Region | Kijiji

Welcome! You're fortunate to be able to take the time off for the Loop.

They're harder to find, but consider the Atlantic 37 / Prairie 36 if you're after a comfortable double cabin in the 36' range.

Not sure how old a boat you're willing to look at. In my own search, I found more often than not the inside was in worse condition, because of leaks, than the exterior. The sellers carefully excluded the water stains from the interior pictures they posted, making many look a lot better than they really were. And if you don't know what to look for, it's easy to overlook small issues that can be real time- and money-suckers down the road.

You will find a more comfortable ride with a semi or full displacement hull. Or rather to sit squat on the water rather than a condo. Less roll, better stability.

You should hire a SAMS or NAMS surveyor to take out much of the guesswork of buying a used vessel.

LaBomba, nice boat but out of my range!

CaptTom, thanks did not know of these models, will look for them as well.

Thanks GuostRider42, I am indeed in contact with a surveyor...poor guy has to put up with all my dumb questions!

eseyoung said:

A little smaller but I am listing my Albin 27FC. If it is something you would consider shoot me a PM. She has a trailer so that may be a plus.

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Nice boat, but too small...canvas would also not insulate much in the winter!

Thanks!

I actually saw you were planning to liveabord in Ontario (in the winter) after i posted that.

The simple solution to that would be to move some place warmer.

best of luck in the search.

eseyoung said:

I actually saw you were planning to liveabord in Ontario (in the winter) after i posted that.

The simple solution to that would be to move some place warmer.

best of luck in the search.

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Eventually! But I still need to work!!!

LaBomba said:

Steph, one thing to take in to consideration is air height. For the canal systems, Trent and Erie, there are some fixed bridges. Generally the lowest are between 20 and 22 ft. so a boat just less than 20 ft. is ideal or one that has a mast that is easily lowered.

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Actually the lowest bridge on the loop which can not be bypassed is Chicago and 19' 1" is your limit there.

Still a newbie...we put a lowball offer on a nice Marine Trader 34 DC. And it got accepted!

Going Saturday with the surveyor. She looked well taken care, lets see if this was real, I know there is lots of sweat ahead, but I dont mind...Inside is very liveable, the rest (deck I suspect)...I can just address slowly...The decks actually look pretty good...Ya I know, the may be rotted underneath. The survey shall tell!

I will be here a lot more now!

leroadrunner said:

Still a newbie...we put a lowball offer on a nice Marine Trader 34 DC. And it got accepted!

Going Saturday with the surveyor. She looked well taken care, lets see if this was real, I know there is lots of sweat ahead, but I dont mind...Inside is very liveable, the rest (deck I suspect)...I can just address slowly...The decks actually look pretty good...Ya I know, the may be rotted underneath. The survey shall tell!

I will be here a lot more now!

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For those keeping track...I withdrew the offer...too many bulkheads delaminating. I need at the minimum a boat that can be insured!

The search is on. Mainship 34s are an option too.

A good time back I discussed marine traders with a friend who was in the boat business and had a lot of knowledge re. repair and quality. He warned me off the traders for the very reason you backed out quality of wood in bulkheads and recurrent problems. I don't know if the newer models addressed that problem.

In older boats, one not to overlook is Bayliner. Some of their models make excellent loop boats and they have not experienced hull delamination.

BandB said:

In older boats, one not to overlook is Bayliner. Some of their models make excellent loop boats and they have not experienced hull delamination.

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I have looked at Bodega from Bayliner, fantastic layout...all powered by Gas, which is a non-starter for me. Cant imagine the cost of doing great loop in gas!

suggestions

You might try the 38 Bayliner. I have one and they are reasonably common. If you are a liveaboard the extra few feet is nice and the Hinos are good.

For freshwater boats in this size I would look at Toledo and Detroit and don't be afraid to import to Canada.

bobsyiruncle said:

You might try the 38 Bayliner. I have one and they are reasonably common. If you are a liveaboard the extra few feet is nice and the Hinos are good.

For freshwater boats in this size I would look at Toledo and Detroit and don't be afraid to import to Canada.

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Look nice...Twin...hmm...what kind of GPH are you getting?

leroadrunner said:

I have looked at Bodega from Bayliner, fantastic layout...all powered by Gas, which is a non-starter for me. Cant imagine the cost of doing great loop in gas!

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Really? My first two fishing boats had 454's. Looking back on it - I'd go with them again, especially now with these high prices. I paid $3/ltr the other day for D2 and gas was only $2/ltr.

The gas vs. diesel question pops up frequently. There are pros and cons of each. However, in general those lighter boats under 35' are good for gas and those heavier or over 35' better for diesel. The reason that typically works that way is weight and torque. Diesel engines have better torque so will perform better at low speeds and with lots of weight. They are also designed more to accommodate continued use, although that's only some diesels.

Here is an excellent unbiased discussion from Volvo. They make and sell both.

Gas vs. Diesel Marine Engines | Power Products Blog

Hi Steph, all the best in your search. The wife & I are in the final stages of the adventure your contemplating embarking on. We found our boat and have it pretty much ready to go, the final step that we have become severely bogged down on (read scared to the point of inaction) is what to do with the house & a lifetime accumulation of stuff.

You may want to widen your search for a boat as the trawler pickings in Ontario are pretty slim and far overpriced compared to the USA. We too went looking for an Albin for likely all the same reasons as you and ultimately found our Albin in Florida. We had intended to bring it home immediately but it made more sense to start our adventure from there so we fly down for a month or so at a time whenever we can get away. Makes for a great inexpensive vacation while we prepare the boat. Note, I mean the vacation itself is inexpensive, the boat like most others is an awe inspiring money pit from hell.

Good luck, keep us posted!

Capt Kangeroo said:

Hi Steph, all the best in your search. The wife & I are in the final stages of the adventure your contemplating embarking on. We found our boat and have it pretty much ready to go, the final step that we have become severely bogged down on (read scared to the point of inaction) is what to do with the house & a lifetime accumulation of stuff.

You may want to widen your search for a boat as the trawler pickings in Ontario are pretty slim and far overpriced compared to the USA. We too went looking for an Albin for likely all the same reasons as you and ultimately found our Albin in Florida. We had intended to bring it home immediately but it made more sense to start our adventure from there so we fly down for a month or so at a time whenever we can get away. Makes for a great inexpensive vacation while we prepare the boat. Note, I mean the vacation itself is inexpensive, the boat like most others is an awe inspiring money pit from hell.

Good luck, keep us posted!

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Yep, I noticed (slim pickings in Canada vs Florida)...I like your idea...I wanted to become liveaboard for awhile, that way I could rent the house and work/update the boat before going away.

Food for thought for sure.

Thanks!

BandB said:

The gas vs. diesel question pops up frequently. There are pros and cons of each. However, in general those lighter boats under 35' are good for gas and those heavier or over 35' better for diesel.

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Mine were 31 and 35 Bertrams. Wish I still had them. Gosh we hate volvos!

Re: Potemtial Great Loopers!

leroadrunner said:

[...]We also decided to become liveaboard and get rid of all our crap! So, we're looking generally for either Albin 36 Double Cabin or Marine Trader 34 Double Cabin.

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I went aboard a 34' Marine Trader at an in-the-water boat show in Alameda, CA several years ago. It was a nice boat, apparently well constructed, at least to the casual eye. I remember thinking that it would be great as a "starter" trawler -- providing an opportunity to become familiar with diesel engines, trawler systems, and so forth. And fun to sleep aboard for a weekend.

But as a live-aboard vessel? No way. It was just too small.

I can visualize living aboard such a small boat in the short term -- for a few weeks in the summertime, when nice weather provided an opportunity to hang out on the flying bridge or elsewhere on the topsides.

But in the wintertime, I and whoever I lived aboard with would get on each others' nerves and be at each others' throats in a metric heartbeat. Not my idea of a good time.

The boat I went aboard, and most if not all of the examples I've seen photos of on Yachtworld.com, had duel single berths in the aft cabin rather than a double berth.

Besides, on a boat that size, stowage space -- for clothes, pots and pans, reading material, and so forth-- would be at a considerable premium.

And if you're into video entertainment, where would you put the TV and DVR where they wouldn't be in the way? Or where they wouldn't have to be moved when you sat down at the table to eat?

A 34-foot trawler would be fun in its own way. But a Nordhavn, it ain't.

Personally, having attended any number of boat shows since 1966, the smallest boat I'd consider living aboard would be in the neighborhood of 50 feet.

Somebody else made a slightly-extended version of the Marine Trader 34: a 35-footer, with a portside salon door and twin engines, but otherwise nearly identical. You can find examples on Yachtworld.com. But I urge you to reconsider the size of the boat you're thinking of living aboard.

leroadrunner said:

I have looked at Bodega from Bayliner, fantastic layout...all powered by Gas, which is a non-starter for me.

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Not so. There are Bodegas with Volvo diesels out there. I know this because I've been jonesing after one of those boats for ages, and have been following the listings for them on Yachtworld.com. (I only have a 2859 now, but...baby steps, baby steps...)

I went aboard a Bodega at the Seattle boat show (in the Kingdome -- RIP) in 1981. It made a considerable impression on me. My parents had purchased a new Bayliner Victoria 2750 Sunbridge not long before, which to this day is the coolest boat in its size range that I've ever seen, so I was attentive to all things Bayliner at the time.

FYI, their hulls were built by Hatteras -- and therefore, in one pundit's description, were "built to outlast time."

So, bottom line: if you really like the Bodega and really want a diesel example, keep watching the listings.

geoffm said:

FYI, their hulls were built by Hatteras -- and therefore, in one pundit's description, were "built to outlast time."

.

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While I think the Bayliner Bodega is a well built boat as were many of the Bayliner cruisers, I don't believe they were built by Hatteras. Bayliner did build some boats in New Bern, but on their own. Then ultimately Brunswick owned both Hatteras and Bayliner.

Still Bayliner built an excellent boat. In fact they built so much boat for their price that it ultimately led to Bayliner's cruisers/ MY's being changed to Meridian just so Brunswick could raise the price. Bayliner's cruisers and their runabouts were entirely different levels on the quality scale.

geoffm said:

I went aboard a 34' Marine Trader at an in-the-water boat show in Alameda, CA several years ago. It was a nice boat, apparently well constructed, at least to the casual eye. I remember thinking that it would be great as a "starter" trawler -- providing an opportunity to become familiar with diesel engines, trawler systems, and so forth. And fun to sleep aboard for a weekend.

But as a live-aboard vessel? No way. It was just too small.

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Not as tight as an Airstream travel trailer. At 33ft long x 8ft across = 264sf
put in a family of three and there's no space for anything.

My 31 Bertram had more space up/down than the Airstream and we lived on it year-round. When I moved up to the 35 Bertram, it increased the space by 25%.