Keeping Boating Affordable

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pilothouse king said:
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Your not required to have insurance, unless you have a mortgage, ................
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Maybe you need insurance, but many go their whole lives without it, with no problems to places you can't obtain it if you wanted it.. Just have a safe boat, be well prepared, and operate prudently. The guy who owned a boat rental place at the Marriott Marina in Miami never even had it, the 10 years he rented boats to novices with no claims or problems. I rode out Hurricane Andrew here on a 50' I lived aboard. Know my damages? Zero.t.
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You're right. You don't need insurance as long as you are not involved in an accident, as long as your boat doesn't catch fire and burn down a marina and as long as your boat doesn't sink and spread fuel all over the waterway. You also don't need life insurance as long as you don't die.

The problem is, we can't see into the future and there's no way to guarantee against these things happening. Buying insurance is nothing more than spreading the risk. Any financial advisor worth his or her reputation will advise you to carry adequate insurance against all risks and this would certainly include a boat.

If your boat is blocked up in your back yard and there's a fence around it to keep people out, you are probably safe dropping your liability insurance. Otherwise, you are a fool to go uninsured. You (and your family) could lose everything. Does your child want to go to college? College fund is gone. Savings so you can retire early? Gone.

I doubt anything anyone can say will change your mind but I hope others will disregard your suggestion to go without liability insurance on their boats.
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BandB said:
I don't like the tone of the "grossly" inflated you used. That sort of carried an assumption someone was cheating you. Be careful as if you treat service providers with that thought you won't have good relationships. Specifically. Is $4/foot grossly inflated for a transient slip? No. Not if it's the market price at that location. Nor is $1/foot a bargain if it's run down and in an area with little demand. Marine fuel may seem high but there are many costs involved in providing it. So please don't think of things as grossly inflated but just prices varying a lot by where and whom. That doesn't mean don't look for bargains. Many town docks for 48 hours or so are great deals. One of the nicest marinas around in Wilmington NC is running a deal on a week free dockage. Yes, look around and compare prices. But if one marina is $3 and another is $2 that doesn't mean the $3 is inflated. I've paid $1 and wished there was better and I've paid $6 and felt I had a good deal. Of course I was in a resort with that and used their gym, their tennis courts, could have golfed or used their pool or laundry, used their concierge, even used their spa, got room service delivered to the boat.
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Sorry but $4 or $6/ft is inflated! :nonono:
 
Any chance in hell of getting off the insurance tracks we've been down before and back on helping the OP make boating more affordable? Pretty please?
 
bobsyiruncle said:
Maybe not at the beginning but somewhere along the line others (who usually do not want to be identified) want to run the asset into the ground and walk away when it is done.
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I believe I may be falling into this category.:D
 
psneeld said:
One money saving suggestion right away is to get yacht out of the mindset....unless you buy fine and are worried about resale cost.

Accept a "look" that may not be the talk of the dock...but be the talk of the dock because your boat runs all the time and goes places because you are neither washing it, repairing it or working to afford it.

Use Rustoleum Marine paint instead of Interlux or Petit...and paint it yourself.

Use lower quality parts that may need replacing if their life cycle is "good enough" and lower in the long run...as long as they retain a safety margin like other stuff.

Shop around...both internet and locally...it's amazing how one item can be 2X or more at one place than another and some places will charge 3-20 time more for shipping and handling.

Learn what can be rebuilt and find a local that does a good job...things like alternators, electric motors (windlasses), starters, water pumps etc..etc are often remanufactured anyway and used by seasoned mechanics.

When cruising...study areas hard before you go...lot's of places have free docks or at least day docks...at usually $50 and over a night for marinas that are only providing a hole in the water for you it adds up quick ...especially if you get in late and leave early (ie not using much in the way of facilities but their cleats)....anchoring works too and the day docks make excercising, replenishing and pet reliefs easier.

Many boaters manage small marinas in trade for slips and other breaks on boating...it does tie you down to an area but some places may have lot's more flexibility than others. Based on many small marina managers I have met...actual qualifications seem to be meager....though their resume might be impressive.

And lastly...get to know people on the water who have been there, done that. Most of what you read in boating mags/books, what traditional "yachtie" marinas and maintenance types tell you, what the obvious "whip out the checkbook crowd" on the dock and internet say....etc..etc is horse pucky. For every example of what they say is the right way or wrong way or can or can't be done is being done by countless others on the water (probably as much as they are). Seek these people out and use good judgement...as they aren't always the correct fountain of info either...but it is the other side of the coin so to speak.
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I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with you!
 
rwidman said:
I agree, that's pretty unfair.

Unfair to whom? West Marine?

We don't know what a retailer, marina, or mechanic's expenses are and it's not up to us to determine what a fair return is for these folks,

True, but it is up to me where I spend my money and how I define value.

Be smart, shop around and compare cost and value. Make an informed decision. Again, if cost bothers you that much, you need a cheaper hobby or at least a smaller boat.
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Despite my previous posts, this is the second time you've suggested getting a cheaper hobby. Can we give that a rest? It's not applicable.
 
If you shop well for your boat you can get a really good condition older model for a really affordable price! But, you do have to shop the market, Mr. Mc. This is still very much a shoppers market in the used power boat industry.

In my mind, in the long run, there ain't any more affordable pleasure-hobby experience than pleasure boating. Your name starts with Mc... see the deals, find the deals, get the deals... enjoy your boating life a great deal!

If you own (i.e. pay cash for) a really good condition, originally well built brand, classic aged FRP Power Cruiser... then with caution in spending $$$ on all counts... you could get away with as little as $2,000 to 4,000 annual coats. It don't get no cheaper than that to have and to use something you love to spend time doing.

Of course, you also could have a high interest loan on an expensive to purchase and maintain boat, spend high dollars for docking, hire everything done by professionals, and only shop at West Marine. In that case please remove Mc from your name and prepare to annually spend 10's of thousands $$$.

You make the call - I got faith in ya!
 
Interesting posts. In my part of the world and the marina I am in, there are two things I could not really save on - one insurance because it is mandatory, or they won't let you in the marina, largely for reasons BandB mentioned. The other is fuel. Because there is only one refuelling facility in the marina, and frankly fuel is still the cheapest recurring cost of our boating anyway.

Where I did save was buying an older vessel, being prepared to do a lot of the mainly cosmetic refurbishing myself, and making myself accept imperfection…but not potentially dangerous imperfection. So I get an expert to fix stuff where safety is a potential issue, do the rest myself, and also do most installation of new gear myself. And by new gear, I mean GPS, depth sounders, radios and the like. I also make do with low end stuff, e.g. 5" screens instead of 8-12", (just as reliable, but smaller screens are way cheaper than large with marine gear), and I don't have an autopilot, (tho wish I did). Where we boat we can't really justify top-end hardware, or radar or autopilot, so do without.

I bought the marina berth as an investment, because their price slowly goes up, and I hated paying quarterly fees.

That's about it...
 
bobsyiruncle said:
Another "P" word PERSPECTIVE
It depends where you are coming from as a boater. For example some people such as notheadcharters (and many others) want to cover all the bases with service and bring a boat up to their standards which are often fairly high.

Maybe not at the beginning but somewhere along the line others (who usually do not want to be identified) want to run the asset into the ground and walk away when it is done.

There is a huge gap between these two perspectives and because of that difference there is also a huge difference in price.

Many however are in between somewhere and will cut corners where they can. I do not see any sin in that.
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I'll identify myself....

I've posted it before on this forum several times.

My boat is being rebuilt to somewhere between workboat and worn yachtie standards.

It was a mess and near throwaway when I bought her and because I was able to save the estimated $50K in "labor" that the checkbookers would have needed to write....I have the option of living aboard and traveling inexpensively for the next say 20 years(health willing).

In 20 years the boat will be 46 years old and no one might want old trawlers then NO MATTER HOW NICE they are. I can part it out for beer money or whatever.

My cost of living is less than having a modest apartment and I still get to live in MY HOUSE in the Florida/Bahamas for the winter.

So despite what some say...there truly is a spectrum of what make sense out there...including trimming insurance costs to the bare minimum...though I do agree having what you need (not what some arbitrary standard is) makes sense.

There are lots of articles written out there discussing how Americans are over insured anyway...and insurance by itself doesn't save you from losing everything...that can happen as well unless you have a secret that protects personal assets.
 
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For folks really wanting to stick to a budget , the simplest is to simply go cruising.

No car saves a grand a year , anchoring out a grand to $10K , depending on location.

Bring plenty of anchors , so loosing a set wont break the bank.

Folks still working can have the lowest cost, with a mooring ball, and a rented dink dock , usually at a marina.
.A DIY marina is low cost if you can paint your own bottom, and change a zinc.

In Fl sometimes property owners will allow live a board at their dock.
Locally its about $100 a week , plus electric , not bad considering a house trailer is $600 a month at a nice trailer park, (there ALL not Bill Clinton trolling grounds) .

Living aboard , and dumping the dirt house is a big step, but for many its the best plan, and by far the most fun!

No commute to the boat , but those repair smells are a PIA at times.
 
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Boat in fresh water you will save a lot!
 
On the issue of insurance, one way to save is to waive windstorm coverage. I've been quoted $7,000/annum for liability plus loss from windstorm (hurricanes and other named storms), but settled for $1,000/annum for only liability and agreed value loss (a sum which I have invested in the boat itself). Of course this means saving the boat in the event a hurricane heads our way is strictly up to me, an obligation I fully accept and would meet regardless of whether I had windstorm coverage or not. If you have a good hurricane plan, you can save a bundle by foregoing windstorm coverage.
 
Captain K said:
On the issue of insurance, one way to save is to waive windstorm coverage. I've been quoted $7,000/annum for liability plus loss from windstorm (hurricanes and other named storms), but settled for $1,000/annum for only liability and agreed value loss (a sum which I have invested in the boat itself). Of course this means saving the boat in the event a hurricane heads our way is strictly up to me, an obligation I fully accept and would meet regardless of whether I had windstorm coverage or not. If you have a good hurricane plan, you can save a bundle by foregoing windstorm coverage.
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Sounds reasonable to me and that sure follows the logic I believe Pilothouse is suggesting with windsurfing and sharks.

My philosophy too (even though my coverage is only $1300/year with hurricane coverage plus $400 reimbursement to move or haul.

But my boat being my home...what's in it is more valuable than the boat itself meaning both my "home" and valuables....so escaping a hurricane becomes a priority which I did during Sandy.
 
For the first year of ownership I was marching down the path of bringing Moon Dance back up to like new, bristol condition. Eventually I realized all that was doing was preventing me from using the boat for fun. Not to mention the expense! So now I just keep the running and safety gear up to par, the drinks cold and the water outside the boat. Much more enjoyable!

It might make a difference that I bought a tired boat not long before the financial crash. I don't think I could sell her at all now, much less for anything like what I paid. Even though it wasn't all that much to start with. So, I am going to wring all the fun out of her that I can and when she falls apart or the trusty old Lehman stops working, I may just walk away.
 
Cheaper boating?

Get a sailboat. Anchor it near a boat landing so there are no slip fees. Get a small dinghy and row out to your boat. Use free wind instead of gas or diesel for propulsion. Use solar and wind to generate electricity. Use solar for hot water.

When cruising, pull into a marina, dump your garbage, fill your water tanks, then buy five gallons of fuel. Cast off and anchor in front of the marina instead of paying for a slip for the night.

Wash your laundry on the boat and hang it on the rails to dry. You can usually find fenders floating so no need to buy them.

Lots of ways to boat on the cheap.
 
Just curious how much everyone pays for tax? Around here the tax is all local county tax. Some counties are more vigilant than others about collecting property tax on an asset you keep in their county.
 
Try Coan River Marina. Basic services but as economical as it gets. Plus Gary, the owner, is a fun guy. They are in Lottsburg, VA right off the Potomac.
 
Egregious:

My NC county (New Hanover) sends me a bill each year for boat property tax. I heard they have "scouts" that go around marinas and gather boat names, and look them up to find the owners. They found me!! Tax is not super high, so I gladly pay it.

You're in Brunswick, so they do things their own way.

Regarding cheap boating- I find when I'm cruising my credit card bill drops a good bit. Fuel, ice, some supplies, occasional overnight dockage. It's harder for me to spend money when on the go. Fresh fish helps too!!!
 
Not sure where you are looking to be on the bay...it is about 200 miles long. Prices are somewhat dependent on where you want to go. For cheap in the north i check out Weaver's. Eastern shore is a little cheaper if you don't mind being over there. Nice area, but for us, the drive from home to the boat is a deal breaker.

IMHO the best buy on the bay is one of the many 'Working' Yacht clubs. i say working because they are member maintained, from bar tending to grass cutting the members do it all. most clubs have a 30-50 hour/year requirement. If you are going to be in the area year round those are easy to get.

Either way...i hate to pay a dime more for anythign than i have to.
 
angus99 said:
So, what are some of your secrets for preventing boating from costing more than necessary?
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I switched to Bristol Finish from real varnish for my brightwork. With varnish, I had to have it done every 10 months. With Bristol, every 2 years works just fine and the finish looks just like varnish. With labor and material, this is a $1000 a year savings for me. But if you want to save even more, just avoid boats with exterior teak.
 
rwidman said:
Cheaper boating?

Get a sailboat. Anchor it near a boat landing so there are no slip fees. Get a small dinghy and row out to your boat. Use free wind instead of gas or diesel for propulsion. Use solar and wind to generate electricity. Use solar for hot water.

When cruising, pull into a marina, dump your garbage, fill your water tanks, then buy five gallons of fuel. Cast off and anchor in front of the marina instead of paying for a slip for the night.

Wash your laundry on the boat and hang it on the rails to dry. You can usually find fenders floating so no need to buy them.

Lots of ways to boat on the cheap.
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...fairly common in the ragbag and a subset of the looper communities. Another angle for those who are traveling in packs is for one boat to actually rent a slip while the others anchor out. The boat in the slip becomes the dinghy entry point into the marina and all of it's facilities. In fact, after marina staff have departed for the night I've seen a pack of sailboats shuttle in and out of the one rented slip to take on water and use laundry, shower and trash facilities. In one instance they stole all of the toilet paper and hand toweling and left at sunrise. In another instance they departed with courtesy power cords. How cheap do you want to go...
 
Egregious said:
Just curious how much everyone pays for tax? Around here the tax is all local county tax. Some counties are more vigilant than others about collecting property tax on an asset you keep in their county.
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We are in Florida where there is no property taxes on boats. States with taxes go about it two ways. Some work from boat registrations. Others work from physical presence and often do that county by county. While you're required to file and list the boat, many don't so they do walk through's just as they do of store fronts in strip centers. Then once they see you and tax you, they ask about prior years, and they continue to tax future years until you prove to them you're no longer there.
 
There's boating on the cheap and not wasting money...you know being frugal (well at least most get it)...some pretty long noses are being looked down when the OP was really looking for ideas such as upgrading anchors can be done by putting watch software to work to see if one pops up on ebay or craig's list...maybe even boat forums. A used anchor in good condition works just as well as the one bought off the shelf at some high priced store.

There's people on here that would be willing to help get new equipment at a reasonable price and suggest ways to save on shipping maybe.

There's already been helpful tips on insurance even though some might disagree...which is perfectly OK but not the only answer....

Some people will do this hobby even if it requires cutting a few corners....doesn't make them less of a person or cruiser at all....unless they resort to the cheating/stealing levels mentioned....but the OP was saying he's not a cheapskate...just frugal which make him smart in my book as opposed to anyone who really shouldn't carelessly spend but does.
 
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Ian, what about something like renting one of Hartge Yacht Harbor's moorings. Then with dinghy dock privileges rent a rack to store a dinghy. With a good solar setup, it should work. These folks ought to see the boat you have under contract. She is a beauty, and would have turned my head. There is a difference in being cheap and economical.

I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said, "a penny saved is a penny earned". Not today. Today a penny saved is a penny and a half earned. More power to you for getting the best deal you can.
 
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BTW - Don't know if this was mentioned: Covered slip will save you thousands in weathering on your boat's exterior by making it so that rain, snow, wind, sleet or ruinous sun-rays will have no effect on your boat. Also makes it easier to quickly clean your boat and keep it looking OK. Although, covered slips can get a bit costly... I highly recommend them if you are going to often dock your boat at rest in a home port. If you are going to be out and about most of the year... then NO slip is the least hassle, least expensive way to go. :thumb:

We don’t even try to present our boat as a Pretty-Girl Pleasure Craft, but rather, we do keep and use our boat as an in good mechanical condition, self contained, long-duration cruiser/anchor-out FUN TOY that we all enjoy the heck out of. I could spend a long-week (40 + hrs) any year polishing her nails, fluffing her hair and putting on her lipstick on – however – I’d much rather be swimming and playing around. If for some currently unforeseen reason we decide to sell her – THEN I’ll make her pretty asss look like a Million Bucks! But till “then” she’s our comfortable girl for Play Baby Play! :D

Happy Boating Daze! - Art :speed boat:
 

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Boating is a state of mind and personal finances. Some are anal about things mechanical and let the esthetics go, others the reverse. Some are both some neither. Some go around the world and others float and go nowhere.

I overnighted in a back bay marina last night and the boat across the way has a wood burning stove and unfinished plywood stern cabin. One dock over a 1938 wooden tug has been finished to immaculate.

There is no affordable boating rule, only one's state of mind and finances will provide you what you desire.
 
Another money saver IF you need to be tied up off and on a lot...is to look for places with multiple day rates (stay 2 get 3rd free) or long term like Ft Pierce Muni...for me it was going to be around $600 to stay 11 or so days...it was less than $800 to stay the whole month.

Isle of Hope in Savannah, Ga was very good at pro-rating the cheapest stay...they would round you to the next lowest rate every time you clicked past the last rate...and if you aren't there for the mad snowbirder rush...they practically begged you to go out and about in their courtesy car.
 
Thank you, Scott and Don, for putting my questions in the right context. Actually, it's been months since I knocked over a marina to save a few bucks on toilet paper. :D.

You're exactly right that I'm not obsessing over money; simply looking for economical alternatives. I don't pay list price for cars or other big purchases and tend to shop for the best deal I can get on airline tickets, hotels and many other things. So why not apply that philosophy to boating where it makes sense?

Despite the sidetracks, there's been a ton of great suggestions, which I really appreciate.

Don, I thought about a mooring ball, but doubt I'd sleep well being two hours from where she's moored. I like the idea of having dock neighbors keeping an eye on her.
 
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