On getting "waked" / vandalism

Hello All, Newbie here with a question that has really been bothering me. Ancillary to many threads dealing with speed, number of engines, prop. pitch, etc. are comments referring to getting "waked". While getting "waked" is fairly common whilst cruising around in our small runabout during a busy weekend, it sounds like getting "waked" by a larger, faster vessel can be dangerous.

While I can believe "driver obliviousness" can apply occasionally, I simply cannot believe that this is always the case. My question is, therefore, are the slower moving trawlers being deliberately "waked"? Is there some vague, general feeling in the "faster vessel" community that trawlers are a problem; in the way; should not be in "their" water? Do these folks look ahead of them and think, "......oh crap! Another trawler, oh well, I'm not slowing up this time...."

I have also read a few posts that seem to indicate that some locals occasionally enjoy an evening of strolling along a public dock and untying trawlers. Is this a real problem? An occasional problem? Confined to a particular area?

Thank you in advance for your, as always, thoughtful responses.

As to wakes, I don't think there's any conscious attempt to go after trawlers or any other boats. Some boaters are oblivious to their surroundings, some thoughtless. But overall I haven't seen a major issue. There is occasionally a wake issue with unprotected marinas but that's a location and design issue.

As to the vandalism you described, I'd say two things. First, there isn't a lot of what you described. Second, it's important to select marinas carefully. Some have far more security than others and generally wouldn't have such issues as described. That doesn't mean no risk, but lesser risk.

This idiot is so oblivious to the fact that he going to knock our slow moving trawler out of a narrow channel that he waves to us. Look closely you can see him standing in the door... not uncommon on the ICW, I've got lots of these photos.

Mr B-P, Yikes, and that is, I believe, one of us!

D.

Here is a link to a thread from awhile back that had over 100 posts to it.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/passing-being-passed-5339.html

I will say that there is no type boat owner that is worse than others. Trawler owners tend to underestimate their wakes often times. And no one is worse than jet skiers.

As far as being "waked" I can only discuss open ocean, or better put unrestricted ocean travel, because thats where my experience is.

I get "waked" all the time, and I dont have a problem with it.
Its what you expect in unrestricted waters. Boats go by, ships go by, waves happen. If I wanted to have a perfectly calm boating life I'd go into protected waters, but its the ocean and its no big deal.

We keep our boat squared away when we're in non protected waters, and as the captain I keep a sharp lookout for hazards. Thats my responsibility, and I believe the other captains in my area do the same. The only issues we hear about are from newby boaters that do not understand the perils of operation in a unrestricted enviroment.

Now, when we're in a protected anchorage we do not expect large wakes, but not because we want to restrict the lawful operation of other vessels. We choose anchorages that naturally suppress waves, and we never have a problem.

As far as vandalism like you indicated, it just does not happen. We have tourists on the docks all summer and have never had a unpleasant situation.

D,
You won't have a problem with vandalism at any of the docks in our area. I've boasted here and never heard of any. Occasionally a theft, but that's it.

Also not a big problem with wakes on the river. I slow down going by the islands if boats are beached because I do throw a big wake. It's part of boating on rivers.

Been waked many times, mainly think folks don't have a clue. Heard CG call a sport fishing boat once " slow down your in a no wake zone" skipper reply "both engines at idle speed" CG shut down one engine!!'. Best seamanship is those who slow , request a side to pass on and speed back up once safely pass. Worse offenders will approach at high speed slow next to you and cause a huge wake hole that will really re-arrange your boat for you!!
You are responsible for damage caused by wakes, videos of offense best evidence. Pointing a camera or 50 cal in their direction usually gets their attention.
Bill

Now looking at it the other way are the boats who won't allow you to pass them without creating a large wake. They insist on going just the speed that forces you to creat a sizable wake passing.

When you are calling the boat being overtaken, are you on Ch 16, 13, 09 or something else? I dual watch 16 and 9 but rarely hear anyone on 16 in SW Florida.

High Wire said:

When you are calling the boat being overtaken, are you on Ch 16, 13, 09 or something else? I dual watch 16 and 9 but rarely hear anyone on 16 in SW Florida.

Click to expand...

My experience on the AICW is that they request a slow pass on channel 16. Technically, that's not the correct way to do it. You're supposed to hail on 16 and agree on a working channel. The conversation is so short though it's probably shorter than agreeing on a working channel.

Technically a "slow pass" is against the rules also. The boat being overtaken is supposed to maintain course and speed. That could result in a very long pass and considerable wake. Experienced AICW cruisers have decided that this is one regulation best ignored.

Equally as important as the almost nonsensical " ALWAYS responsible for your wake" warcry...is all skippers are responsible for the safety of their vessel at all times...they by the rules are required to "exhibit prudent seamanship" to avoid collisions so I'm sure the same applies for other activities as well.

If a vessel is underway and you "might" get waked by accident, by a rescue vessel, by a huge wage travelling long distance...you have to be ready for them....so why not a wake at any time?

Sure...the 4-5 foot wake produced by up to 20 meter planning vessels right along side of them can be fairly violent if the pull back to 8-12 knots and pass...but going by on plane more than 50-75 feet away is a wake but hardly anything more than annoying f your boat is battened doewn and people alerted to the pass.

I never slow down past my 6.5 knots or so and when called I usually tell them to keep their speed up and hope they pass on the other side of the channel (not RIGHT next to me)....I simply turn at the right time and let the wake pass under my stern with nary a motion felt. If they slow and create that monster wake and the channel is narrow...then yes it gets dicey. But then...if I told them to keep their speed up and they didn't...they fall into the overly cautious or stupid category.

I put out a security call yesterday on a guy who wanted to pass and waited till just under the bridge and not yet clear of the fendering system to start his pass. So I announced a security call on 16 that his passig was dangerous and all vessels should be aware of his presence...

I don't think trawlers are targeted....my guess is that most really just don't understand the dynamics of each situation they encounter and how things will evolve...but there always is that 10% arrogant who just don't give a darn.

We got untied once on the Erie Canal at 4am. Luckily someone saw the perps do this and woke us up and grabbed our lines before we floated into the lift bridge. We now use a cable and lock when we cruise the canal in all but the busiest of ports. There seem to be a lot of bored teenagers that think it is funny to untie boats that visit. We know of others that have got untied as well.

Rule #2 allows for departure from the rules if it is within the ordinary practice of good seamanship....

Rule 2 - Responsibility
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.
(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

You hear all the time of large vessels getting ready to enter port and and the captains/pilots/etc agree on things that are not in strict compliance with the "black and white" parts of the rules because it's the nature of the maritime world where things like tide, current, traffic, visibility keep it from being black and white.

have also read a few posts that seem to indicate that some locals occasionally enjoy an evening of strolling along a public dock and untying trawlers. Is this a real problem? An occasional problem? Confined to a particular area?

Click to expand...

We cruised the Rideau Canal last summer. When we were tied up on the wall in Ottawa, a policeman walking the dock area told us to lock to at least one cleat with a cable or chain.
We also had a person climb board our boat at 2 am.
And the local police didn't seem to care much.

I've never heard of people untying boats but I can see how it's possible. A stainless steel cable and lock would prevent this but it seems a shame to have to do something like this.

On the other hand, locking a dinghy and motor when leaving it at a public dock seems about as normal as locking your car when you leave.

rwidman said:

My experience on the AICW is that they request a slow pass on channel 16. Technically, that's not the correct way to do it. You're supposed to hail on 16 and agree on a working channel. The conversation is so short though it's probably shorter than agreeing on a working channel.

Technically a "slow pass" is against the rules also. The boat being overtaken is supposed to maintain course and speed. That could result in a very long pass and considerable wake. Experienced AICW cruisers have decided that this is one regulation best ignored.

Click to expand...

Interesting thread.

I have a number of thoughts:

First, on the "slow" pass, I like to maintain my speed and heading. I feel it is not only safer, but Dauntless tends to wallow at idle speed, which then makes even the smallest wake unpleasant.
Just pass me and gt it over with.

Second, for most of those fast boats out there, they drive their boats, just like they drive on the freeway, seemingly oblivious to all around them, other than possibly the car directly ahead. Therefore, you get these situations where we are both heading for the same marker, me at 7 knots and they at 30, and they will cut in front of you, instead of passing behind (which would hardly have been noticeable). They just don't think and don't understand vectors of two moving objects.

Third, the untying of lines, is something that I have read about, but almost exclusively in books written about barge cruising in the '70s and '80s, and pretty much in Europe, notably, England and France.

Very common that boats are untied for all different reasons.

Pulled a boat off a sandbar across from one persons house and towed it back...

They told the story that some drunk had gotten aboard and tried to take their 40 something foot Sea Ray out. He untied it before he realized he couldn't get it started. It drifted across the canal and grounded....I can't remember why other than under the canvas he got hot...but he took off his clothes and fell asleep...only to be awakened by the Marine Police the next morning.

From the official reports I reviewed, the vast majority are little boats tied up behind or near bars during the summer, and drunk young people "borrow" them for a hop home or to the next bar where they are found the next day or so. This is typical in the Northeast where some of the barrier islands turn into weekend drunkfests.

I'm with Scott on this. Rarely, if ever, are you completely surprised by a wake. Just be ready for it. It's just a wave. Other boats are supposed to be responsible for their own wakes, but it's nearly impossible to prove and rarely ever prosecuted. So where does that leave you? You can cry like a baby on VHF 16 which will do absolutely no good, or you can just be ready to take the actions required to prevent damage to your own vessel. There are lots of ways to do it. If they ask for a slow pass, sure, that's nice, but if I look back and the wake isn't bad at all, I have been know to just tell the overtaking skipper to maintain course and speed. No need to slow down on my account. I ain't in no hurry and apparently they are.

If the boat being passed is making 7 knots and the boat passing is making 8 knots it's going to be a long, uncomfortable pass. I'm usually the one being passed so if asked, I slow down, they pass and I pull into their wake and speed back up. On the few occasions where I am the one passing, the slower boat has usually agreed to slow down.

My experience has been the newer and bigger the passing boat, the more likely it is to fly on by pushing the largest wake possible.

NYCHAB III said:

While I can believe "driver obliviousness" can apply occasionally, I simply cannot believe that this is always the case.

Click to expand...

Always the case? As in 100% of the time? No, probably not. But my guess would be that obliviousness accounts for ALMOST all cases. Probably more than 99%.

There are a just a whole lot of REALLY oblivious people out there. I mean, 5 minutes on the roads should make that obvious!

Getting Waked

You know that it is going to be bad when you can see the wake of a big container ship coming on your radar?





This particular ship was flying and so did some of the gear left out in the Saloon...

"I simply turn at the right time and let the wake pass under my stern with nary a motion felt."

Do you turn your stern to the wake? It's been my practice to turn bow into the wake.

Boydski said:

You know that it is going to be bad when you can see the wake of a big container ship coming on your radar?





This particular ship was flying and so did some of the gear left out in the Saloon...

Click to expand...

About the hardest hit my boat ever took was from a container ship wake in the Cape Fear river. He was running pretty fast, probably some strange ground effect as river is only about 45' deep. I've never seen a wave shaped like that and it launched my little boat!!!

A lot of it is perspective. I've been waked more than once by a slow moving trawler when I was in an even slower moving sailboat. Than I look toward the shore and see a fisherman in a tiny aluminum, flat bottom boat who is getting waked by most everything. I like the way someone put it, it's just a hello from a passing boat and some shout it louder than others.

I get waked ALL the time on the Florida ICW--seems to be a big problem in south Florida from what I've read online. Luckily my boat can handle the largest of wakes when the bow is turned into the wave but I have been forced out of a narrow channel after turning into a wave; and with a 3'3" draft I nearly ran aground one time! You need to learn how to boat defensively in the ICW. One boater got dangerously close to my boat while passing I briefly considered hosing him with my salt water washdown--wifey wisely convinced me otherwise!

I've been cruising the Florida ICW since the late 70s when I was a kid and this has always been a problem. I remember my dad's 26' Outer Reef getting slammed by large Sea-rays and Bayliners almost every weekend. But I have noticed that boat operators have become less considerate and more oblivious to the potential damage/injuries they can inflict. I once got waked in a bridge and nearly collided with the wood fenders. It didn't matter that I had a child on the deck who was very visible--the incident put my family at risk. I firmly believe, however, that he was completely oblivious rather malicious.

Maybe I am getting crotchety but boaters seem to have less seamanship today than years past--anyone EVER use a horn to pass? How many operators would know what two blasts meant? I rarely hear traffic on channel 16 other than the USCG. Walk around your marina and look at the knots for example! Yikes!

Thank you all for your very helpful responses! As you may discern (and as explained in our intro), we do not as yet own a Trawler. Our goal is the "Loop" and consequently the AICW and GICW. We also have never been to the East Coast and our only boating exposure there is via the good people populating this Trawler Forum.

My personal experience with "waking" is on the rivers and lakes of the PNW. East of Portland there are not very many "trawler-size' vessels to share the water with. Getting "waked" though is annoying until you realize the "waking" boat is often towing a wakeboarder or tube and a big wake is "necessary". Then I just "get over it" and learn how to cross a wake and even try to take some pleasure from the experience, if possible.

My Moonstruck, thank you for the link. I have read it and it was very informative.

Mr. Jleonard, your experience in Canada sounds similar to the stories I have read about. I guess, that would be and area to exercise caution in.

D.

>If the boat being passed is making 7 knots and the boat passing is making 8 knots it's going to be a long, uncomfortable pass.<

A nautical mile is about 6000ft, passing a 60 ft boat at a 1K speed difference is not that long.

hmason said:

"I simply turn at the right time and let the wake pass under my stern with nary a motion felt."

Do you turn your stern to the wake? It's been my practice to turn bow into the wake.

Click to expand...

I just turn 45 degrees to take it on the stern rather than 120 degrees for on the bow...plus a little surfing and it's less time consuming and I don't have to slow down to turn or take the wake...same results...better for continuing on quickly (important to me at 6.3 knots.)

You just have to plan to have enough room to make the turn towards the edge of the channel.

Kinda like the myth about taking the oncoming wake 45 degrees like boating safety courses teach you...it depends a lot on the boat and situation. Lot's of better ways to do it once experienced enough.