Splicing Wires

Hi All - I need a bit of advice please. While lowering my mast to install a new anchor light I managed to snap most of the wires running to my radar. It bound up right at the bottom next to the deck. ( I really hate admitting that I screwed this up).

I've cleaned everything up and I was about to start splicing them together when I started wondering if splicing was a bad idea.

There are a dozen or so wires ranging from thin telephone size to the power cable itself. It's the thin ones that bother me the most.

I was going to use crimped connections to put this back together. Is that the best way to do this?

Best solution might be to buy a new cable.

Bob

I would use heat shrink ring terminals with a terminal block like this:

And coat all the connections with dielectric grease.

i solder splices. No chance of corrosion, wrap good with tape and done. the blocks are a good option and i have several for future use...but it seems like every time i go to do something it is in a place that it isn't practical to secure a block.

BobH said:

Best solution might be to buy a new cable.

Bob

Click to expand...

It's a 20+ year old Raytheon unit. Probably none available.

eseyoung said:

i solder splices. No chance of corrosion, wrap good with tape and done..

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Me too but I would use shrink tubing instead of tape. Make sure you put the tubing over one of the wire ends before soldering!

Dave

eseyoung said:

i solder splices. No chance of corrosion, wrap good with tape and done. the blocks are a good option and i have several for future use...but it seems like every time i go to do something it is in a place that it isn't practical to secure a block.

Click to expand...

Same here, no way to mount a block.

So you're saying solder only, no other connector other than the shrink covering?

I wouldn't bother. I would tin the leads then solder them side-to-side.

I like shrink wrap and if practical I first thread a large piece of shrink wrap over one side of the bundle to be spliced, then a skinny one for each piece I solder. After shrinking the individual wires I slide the outer one over and shrink that figuring it gives good strain-relief.

Dave

Yes. if it were me i would just twist the wires together and put a drop of solder on each connection. Wrap each wire with tape. You can stagger your splices so that you don't end up with a huge 'wad' of splice in one spot.

In something like your cable i may try some of the paint on electrical tape. it may be tough to use real tape with so many wires running in the same cable.

magicbus said:

Make sure you put the tubing over one of the wire ends before soldering! Dave

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If I had a dollar every time I did that.

magicbus said:

I wouldn't bother. I would tin the leads then solder them side-to-side.

I like shrink wrap and if practical I first thread a large piece of shrink wrap over one side of the bundle to be spliced, then a skinny one for each piece I solder. After shrinking the individual wires I slide the outer one over and shrink that figuring it gives good strain-relief.

Dave

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Thanks ... I can do that. Guess I'm off to Radio Shack.

From what I have learned about boat wiring, soldering is a no-no. It's brittle and can crack from the constant vibration. Moreover, electrical tape is equally a no-no in an outdoor application. It will QUICKLY deteriorate and turn into a sticky mess on one side and stiff on the other. I have spent four years removing all the wire nuts and tape off our boat and have seen how horrible it can get.

I would bet that a multi-strand wire like that is going to be damn hard to fix neatly and accurately.

I would first TRY to call Raymarine and see if they still have cables for it. You might be surprised. Cables are often designed for multi-year releases of gear.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial][FONT=Verdana, Arial]ABYC standards (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit”.


NASA uses crimps, I would use a heat shrink/sealing connector of high quality and then use a heat shrink over the whole shazam to finish it up.

If you solder make sure the joint is air-tight and you have not degraded the tinning of the wire. Solder is prone to cracking and it eliminates the flexibility of the wire, you must support it to prevent broken wires.

I always make wiring to last my lifetime, Murphy is one of my deck hands.



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BlueSky said:

There are a dozen or so wires ranging from thin telephone size to the power cable itself. It's the thin ones that bother me the most.

I was going to use crimped connections to put this back together. Is that the best way to do this?

Click to expand...

I don't know ANYTHING about RADAR masts or how it's connected to the control equipment.

However, I do know something about wiring, especially for data.

Electrical wires can be spliced with weatherproof crimp connectors. Those are the kind where you heat them and a sealant expands and flows to seal off the connection. Other people like to use various twist methods with solder and a heat sealed tube over the exposed area. No biggie, just so long as the bare metal is protected from exposure to the air.

EDIT: A couple of members have made posts that make it clear that there are specific reasons to not do things like soldering, even on electrical wires. I defer to their expertise absolutely. My advice on the thin wires that may be data cabling stands.



But...

You mentioned thin ones, like telephone wire.

If you're talking about Unshielded Twisted Pair (UTP), which is where you have pair-sets of thin wires that are twisted around each other and housed loosely inside of a protective jacket, you may have an issue.

The little wires are twisted for a reason, and the more data the cable has to carry in any given period of time the more important it is.

I have NO IDEA whether your wire IS UTP or just very thin wire. I also don't know what sort of throughput the wires have to carry.

I DO know that RADAR is something that most folks would consider to be a "mission critical" safety item.

My suggestion to you is that unless you are absolutely certain that a manual splice in the wire won't be an issue is to buy a new cable.

SCOTTEDAVIS said:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial][FONT=Verdana, Arial]ABYC standards (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit”.



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I guess I am out of spec. Although, does the tape count as a means of mechanical connection?

I found my loophole.

I have never had one fail...the only word of caution is that if you twist the ends as i said it can make a pointy unbendable end which could poke through tape. While it has never actually happen to me...it is possible. I usually try to pinch the ends flat with a pair of pliers.

The problem with a Radar cable is not the control wiring, it's the signal wire.

You're probably going to find that one of the wires is a RF wire, probably in the form of a mini coax type.

That's going to be the tough one.

You can splice it, but it will affect the performance of your radar. I can't guarantee you'll notice it as the operator, but it is an issue all the same.

I'd be happier if you added a RF rated connector and used that.

I was forced to splice a Furuno cable a few years back and it was no fun. I would certainly try to find a replacement cable if you can. Sometimes eBay is a good source for the older stuff.

If you do have to repair it, a soldered joint with adhesive-lined shrink wrap will work. Use the proper technique of mechanically joining the wires, and then solder them with quality 60/40 solder. Here is a great video (at the bottom of the page) that demonstrates the process.

If you have sufficient cable, stagger the individual joints to reduce the diameter of the finished splice. If the cable is shielded, you must also splice the shield, as it is a conductor too. Finally, finish by applying a larger diameter piece of shrink wrap over the entire splice. Should be good to go.

I almost forgot, a "third hand" like this will help immensely.

Good luck,

Larry
M/V Boomarang

eseyoung said:

I guess I am out of spec. Although, does the tape count as a means of mechanical connection?

I found my loophole.

I have never had one fail...the only word of caution is that if you twist the ends as i said it can make a pointy unbendable end which could poke through tape. While it has never actually happen to me...it is possible. I usually try to pinch the ends flat with a pair of pliers.

Click to expand...

I am not a surveyor so I don't care.

I have spent more time then I care to admit repairing poor and stupid electrical connections that have or will fail at some point, done by others.

My connections cost more, the proper crimping tool cost me over a c-note. but my connections will never need to be redone by me or anyone else.

The connection you describe would be changed almost immediately on my boat, but if it works for you great. I use elect. tape to whip rope ends while making a splice and that's about it.

I think the determining factor here is that it is a very old unit that I plan on replacing in the next year or so at the most. I'll take a stab at a repair first. Gives me a chance to practice a new skill.

[QUOTE="SCOTTEDAVIS;

I have spent more time then I care to admit repairing poor and stupid electrical connections that have or will fail at some point, done by others.


I don't want to be the guy that does a piss poor job either.

BlueSky said:

I think the determining factor here is that it is a very old unit that I plan on replacing in the next year or so at the most. I'll take a stab at a repair first. Gives me a chance to practice a new skill.

Click to expand...

Please reconsider.


"taking a stab" at a repair using "a "new skill" on an item you may really need on a dark and stormy night is not an inspiring thought.

Install some new cabin lights for practice.

I would call Raytheon directly with the model number and maybe serial number at hand. They should be able to tell you if the cable is still available. If so, I would go that route. You don't need radar except when it's crappy, and things usually don't fail until it is. I have a similar set up it seems. The PO ran the cable through the pre-cut hole in the (Edson brand) mast, about 2 feet below the radar dome. Had he run it through the base or even close to the bottom of the mast, it would not be an issue. Good Luck and thanks for the reminder to be more careful when I am raising/lowering the mast, which I have to do to fit under my covered moorage.

SCOTTEDAVIS said:

I am not a surveyor so I don't care.

I have spent more time then I care to admit repairing poor and stupid electrical connections that have or will fail at some point, done by others.

My connections cost more, the proper crimping tool cost me over a c-note. but my connections will never need to be redone by me or anyone else.

The connection you describe would be changed almost immediately on my boat, but if it works for you great. I use elect. tape to whip rope ends while making a splice and that's about it.

Click to expand...

Can you tell me what you use? I have only ever used the standard automotive crimps. I have tried them but after sometime they ALWAYS end up corroded. I have even the 'marine corrosion resistant' terminals would always come up corroded. Not so much the terminals themselves but the wires inside.

Every one that i have ever put on i have either filled the barrel of the terminal with solder or cut off the connector and soldered the wire.

If there is a better way i am open to learning. I may have a hard time parting with a c-note for a wire crimper. But if the tool makes the difference i could be convinced...Do you loan yours?

I have soldered everything from generator wiring for my camper, to race cars instrumentation, trailer lights (think road salt), to various things in our fresh water boats.

Not one of my solder joints have ever got a crack, split or failed. If they do that then they were cold jointed or disturbed. it is a skill and just sticking it together isn't good enough.


admittedly, The marine environment is still somewhat new to me. I do try to do things the 'right' way.

There are likely three or four different issues here: 1) standard electric cables that can be crimped with heat shrink connectors. 2) very small thin wires that cannot be crimped, there are specialized press lock blocks that work for these which can be weather proofed with shrink wrap, liquid electrical tape, etc. 3) coaxial RF shielded cable which usually requires soldering and is prone to degradation in performance when spliced. 4) twisted pair which, frankly I don't know how you splice that right. I am sure there is a way. Not familiar with it being used on radar, but I haven't nearly seen it all.

So definitely a new cable is by far the best solution. It's not so much the cable itself which should be a problem sourcing from Raymarine or elsewhere, but they may have changed the connectors at either end. If no joy from the manufacturer, the salvage yards like Sailorman, Sailor's Exchange et al will often have remainders from take outs etc, like wise larger electronics sales and installation shops.

Edit: Just looked at e-Bay. There all kinds of Raytheon radar cables on there.

I was in the Air Force when they transitioned from soldering and lacing wire bundles to crimps and tie-straps. Techs had pride in how well everything was soldered together and laced up. USAF mandated the change to crimps and tie-straps as they are more reliable and don't break. You can get a good ratcheting crimper at West Marine that has removable and inter-changeable dies for different style of connectors. It was a couple of bucks but worth every penny. I won't get into the argument of soldering versus crimp style but there are some smart people that figure this stuff out and there must have been a reason all the services and fed agencies switched and re-wrote the standards.

My buddy got a car when he was a kid. He immediately pulled the front coils out and was cutting them with a hacksaw when his dad came in and asked him what he was doing. He said cutting it down so it was lower and would take the turns tighter. He said his dad just looked at him and said, "Yeah, those idiot engineers at GM probably don't know anything about front ends and handling. I'm sure a 16 year old kid knows better." and just walked away. We always laugh about that whenever we try to out-guess people that write standards and design things. This is just my opinion though, I always thought soldering with shrink wrap and a properly laced bundle looked better...
Jeff

caltexflanc said:

... 2) very small thin wires that cannot be crimped, there are specialized press lock blocks that work for these which can be weather proofed with shrink wrap, liquid electrical tape, etc...

Click to expand...

My former BIL worked for verizon and he gave me a bunch of the ones they use for splicing their lines. When I ran out I got more from Lowes. They are filled with a waterproof gel that seals when you press the "crimp" button.



Dave

If I were splicing the cable, I would use properly sized uninsulated butt splice crimps staggered, 3:1 adhesive lined heat shrink at least 2X the butt splice length and one large piece to enclosed all. I use the unisulated to be sure the crimp is in proper alignment with the tool so you dont crush the barrel. You can crimp down to 26 gauge if you have the proper tool.
McMaster Carr, Newark Electronics, Mosley, all carry what you need and way cheaper than at a marine outlet.

magicbus said:

My former BIL worked for verizon and he gave me a bunch of the ones they use for splicing their lines. When I ran out I got more from Lowes. They are filled with a waterproof gel that seals when you press the "crimp" button.



Dave

Click to expand...

That would be a 3M Scotchlok. An example of what i was referring to for the thin wires.

Again, it sounds like the OP has some wires too thin for crimp connectors.

Wow, lots of good advice here. I appreciate the responses.

Looks like this had happened before, when I pulled out some of the cable I found a place where half of the wires had been previously spliced.

I'll give this some more thought before deciding exactly what to do. By the way, the unit is a Raytheon R21X. And I'll try and include a photo of the wires.

Why not count the number of connections needed and get a weather proof amphenol connector and fix both the wire and the problem?