An object of my lust and a couple of other early season harbor neighbors

The object of my lust is the green Jarvis Newman 46 "Roaring Bull", my ultimate dream boat of the moment.

-- Edited by dwhatty on Tuesday 25th of May 2010 06:51:14 AM

-- Edited by dwhatty on Tuesday 25th of May 2010 06:53:46 AM

-- Edited by dwhatty on Tuesday 25th of May 2010 06:56:25 AM

-- Edited by dwhatty on Tuesday 25th of May 2010 06:59:05 AM

There is JN 42 that runs around here....was for sale a while back but I think it sold and remained local. It is looker....that is for sure.

Jarvis Newman boats are Gorgeous! One of the first downeast builders to really run
with the "Lobster Yacht" concept. They have evolved to the point where working
fishermen can't afford them, but they are beautiful.

I can only assume the owner of the GB36 woody keeps it in a boathouse. Or is a glutton for punishment. A GB, particularly an old one, has a rainforest of exterior teak on it as is. Adding the mahogany window frames and cabin sides between the windows to the "keep it varnished" list either indicates an owner with either tons of time on his hands or tons of money to pay someone else do it. Or he keeps it in the dark most of the year. Looks nice, though, sorta.....

dwatty, there is nothing wrong with your boat. I was on one at the recent Sactuary Cove Boat Show just last weekend, and was suitably impressed. I am looking at a brochure even as we speak. For your information, one of those here is Aus now, new and well fitted out, is virtually $500k......!

Dave:

That's a hell-uv-a nice photo of your boat.

That GB with the moss green hull is outstanding! The finest example

I have ever seen of a GB, WOW!

Marin wrote:

I can only assume the owner of the GB36 woody keeps it in a boathouse. Or is a glutton for punishment. A GB, particularly an old one, has a rainforest of exterior teak on it as is. Adding the mahogany window frames and cabin sides between the windows to the "keep it varnished" list either indicates an owner with either tons of time on his hands or tons of money to pay someone else do it. Or he keeps it in the dark most of the year. Looks nice, though, sorta.....

Click to expand...

Marin:

The GB36 Woodie was refurbished by her current owners (not by a yard) about 5 years ago. Its part of their "charter fleet" and has been kept in the water year round for the past 3 years (under a shrink wrap in the winter). Pretty brave considering icing in possibilities (no bubblers) although we have had fairly mild winters for the past couple of years. The GB32 woodie was just restored a year ago at great expense for* her owner by a local pro. She, too, was kept in the water this past winter under shrink wrap and is available for charter through the GB36 owners' business. If it were mine, and after all that expense, it would be hauled in the winter and kept under cover (as we did with our 70 year old woodie for the past 22 years) and not exposed to charterers.

*

Yes, the GB36 in question is "Brigadoon" which recently caused quite a stir on the GB owners site because the owner placed what in effect was an add for his charter company in one of the forums. Pissed a lot of people off as it were.

The boat does indeed look nice, although I don't agree with Daddyo on the green hull-- I think it makes the boat look too busy and a bit tacky. But that's a totally subjective opinion. I like white hulls and dark hulls (like Seahorse's) but I don't care for pastel hulls or "tinted" hulls. But if we all liked the same things it would be a very boring world.

david,
When you say you hauled your old woodie every winter how did she fare, was this a planked boat and did she open up a lot and what did you have to do before she went back in the water. I assume one would have to go round with the caulking iron and harden up the caulking a bit or at least re putty a fair bit of seam.
Comming from a temperate clime don't have to haul wooden boat for long periods of time and the only time I had Tidahapah out for a long period and that was only 6 weeks with cold dry westerlies she opened up pretty well and I had to sit in the slings for a couple of hours whilst she took up.
Really interested to know how others fare in these situations.

Benn

Benn, I was thinking the same thing. I know nothing about wooden boats but I do know if you leave them outta the water for long, they will "open up" as you say. I remember reading about someone who launched a wooden boat and tied it up and walked away in minutes...they came back to a sunken boat the next day...

Yeah,
When I launched Tidahapah as a new build it was a 24 hour operation. Once she hit the water
it literally just poured in and I had 2 pumps going full blast all ther afternoon until the next morning as she really took up and then was as tight as a drum.
It just became a continuation of the launching party so was a lot of fun.
It is quite amazing how fast the timbers initially swell and take up and then gradually until all leaks stop.

Benn

Tidahapah wrote:

david,
When you say you hauled your old woodie every winter how did she fare, was this a planked boat and did she open up a lot and what did you have to do before she went back in the water. I assume one would have to go round with the caulking iron and harden up the caulking a bit or at least re putty a fair bit of seam.
Comming from a temperate clime don't have to haul wooden boat for long periods of time and the only time I had Tidahapah out for a long period and that was only 6 weeks with cold dry westerlies she opened up pretty well and I had to sit in the slings for a couple of hours whilst she took up.
Really interested to know how others fare in these situations.

Benn

Click to expand...

Benn:

We wintered her in a shed with a moist, gravel floor. Being cedar planked, she did not dry out much. Didn't have to do much each year other than spot filling some seams here and there with Slick Seam (Hated the traditional black seam compound that you had to heat and which dried as hard as rock after awhile). Hardly leaked for about two hours or so when launched and only pumped about 2-3 times a day for about 2 days and then only about once a day for the rest of the season. About 20 years ago we routered the topsides seams 3/16" down almost to the cotton X 3/16 wide and filled them with a thick mix of West Epoxy and 410 Microlite. From then on the topsides very rarely had any cracks and drew compliment for their fairness (and comments like: Is she Fibreglass? Did you Fibreglass her?)

*

I think it was Phill/Fil who said that "the nice thing about wooden boats is that if you ignore them they go away!"

OK ,
Thanks for that info.
Cedar being like our hoop pine, oregon etc all soft woods are good for that as they do not move as much as our hardwoods.
Tidahapah is planked in spotted gum on spotted gum frames and so dries fairly quickly and moves a fair bit.
A lot of the soft wood planked boats over here end up either having the seams splined or filled as you did. This gives a very fair hull that does not move to much and holds a paint job very well, can even be painted with two pack .
This you can't do with a hard wood hull as the seams open up and crack the paint and one either sticks with traditional putty (linsead oil putty mixed with antifoull paint under water line and plasterers whiting) over the caulking or rake the seams and use sikaflex which I have done on the 2 water line seams.

Benn

Marin,I like the green GB. It may look better if it were all green or if only the top of the topsides were green. What is the Interlux name of that color? I'm painting my skiff "Grand Banks Beige" and assume it's beige but the color swatch on the brochure shows it to be quite green. I think it's like the beige on the Eastbay boats I see in the magazines.

Eric---

Grand Banks Beige is not an exterior color that was used by GB. It's the interior color that American Marine used on their Grand Banks boat from when the GB line was introduced until later in the 1970s. On earlier GBs all the interior bulkheads were painted, not paneled in teak veneer. There is a lot of teak trim on the interior---- window sills and valances, side moldings, and the cabinetry--- but the bulkhead panels themselves were all painted GB Beige.

Here are two photos showing this color inside our GB. The color balance is not perfect--- the shot of the forward bookcase is probably the more accurate of the two shots. With very few exceptions--- and these were special orders--- all Grand Banks boats were painted or gelcoated white by the factory. Hulls and topsides. A few woodies were painted with a pastel color shade in a band around the main cabin from the longitudinal side trim to the top of the cabin. The one or two that I've seen this way had a very light tan band--- it was not the interior GB Beige color which actually has a bit of green in it.

Thanks very much Marin. You said the magic word * *..green. Thats what I want. I've got the bottom done w 6 coats of primocon primer and 4 coats of Trilux 33. Just an hour ago I finished the 1st coat of Pre-Kote primer on the topsides. I'll do three and then 3 topcoats of the GB Beige. The whole interior of the boat is light non-gloss green. I think it's going to turn out well.

Eric Henning

The pic on the left was a boat that was here visiting and was definitely an element of my lust. She was a beautiful boat right to the bilge. A Garden design.The other boat , called "Abundance" (and rightfully so w her 18' beam) has cruised extensively here in SE by a family of 8. She's powered by a 4-71 and has a ferro cement hull. She has an appendage on her keel to facilitate beaching W/O additional support.
Abundance is for sale.


Eric Henning



-- Edited by nomadwilly on Monday 31st of May 2010 08:34:25 PM


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Monday 31st of May 2010 08:45:51 PM

Boy that Garden sure is one beautiful boat.
Raised wheelhouse could do with a little re design in the fwd section , but otherwise perfect.

Benn

Benn,Here's 2 more of the same boat. The lazerette was almost as clean as a new boat.


Marin,
I took the lid off the can after shaking and it looks 100% brown and thats OK but it looks a bit dark like your left picture. I may mix w buff.


Eric


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Wednesday 2nd of June 2010 03:56:23 PM

Benn and Nomadwilly,

any idea why the stern is shaped like that?* Typically I'd say that is to deal with a following sea in ****ty weather.* Am I correct?

Woody

Below the waterline, the pointy stern gives a turbulence-free wake, unlike mmost square stern designs, so at displacement speeds, a much more efficient hull.
Above the wl, just aesthetics. The tumblehome is a Garden treat.
I don't know any Garden designs that weren't pretty.

Woody,A proper full displacement hull may or may not be a double ender. A Krogen is a good example of an excellent 100% FD hull that usually has almost all the advantages of the double ender in following seas. Whitehall pulling boats (row boats) have a flat transom but it is small and well above the water. All these FD boats pay the price of not being able to go any or much faster than 1.34 X the square root of the water line length and if not overdriven cruise at 10 - 20% less than that. My hull speed (1.34 ect) of my Willard is 7 knots and I cruise at 6.15. However slow my Willard is it's very seaworthy and requires only 16hp to cruise. Thats 2hp per ton of displacement. I have 4.6hp per ton maximum power so I'm probable a bit over powered w 37hp. I probably wouldn't miss the extra power if I had a 3 cyl 27hp Yanmar.
Keith,
My stern is round and not pointed. The run of the bottom is a bit abrupt in the center of the stern and the hull aft is (generally speaking) very full to carry the extra ballast. So there is a bit of turbulence in the center of the wake and a bit of the wake even creeps fwd like a square stern boat but she seems to be blessed w about 90% of the benifits of pointy stern boat.*But the large rudder and very soft quarter sections make her very well mannered in following seas.**All boats are compromise, none are the same and none are totally pure.
Yes * *.. the masters. Garden, Atkin, Gardner, Schock * *.. there are quite a few * *.. all their boats are very very good boats and beautiful too.


Eric Henning

Thanks, this is the kind of great information I came her for.* Thanks for the replies.

As Eric says, an advantage of a pointed, or at least rounded stern above the waterline is that the boat won't get pushed around as much in a following sea.* A boat like a Grand Banks, CHB, etc.*can be a real pain in the a*s in a following sea because at their slow cruising*speeds the waves are often traveling faster than the boat and can slop up against that big, wide, flat transom and shove the boat in every direction except the one you want to go in.* In nasty conditions it can actually become very dangerous because*this trait can cause the boat to yaw sideways as it's pushed forward by the wave.* If the wave is big enough, if the*helmsman isn't quick enough, or if the rudder(s) don't have sufficient authority--- or all three--- *the boat can end up in the perfect position to be rolled over.* This has happened at least once that I know of right here in Bellingham Bay on a stormy day.* There were no survivors....

The advantage of the wide, flat butt of a boat like the GB is you get more interior space--- as FF says, a floating condo---*because the beam can stay wide all the way to the stern. But the handling in a following sea really suffers.

So the rounded stern of Eric's boat, regardless of what it does below the waterline, will be a real advantage should he get into sloppy or rough water with the waves coming down on him from astern.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 10th of June 2010 09:00:11 PM

Well * ..OK * *..but it's not availible. It's mine. Seriously I thought of some other elements of boat design that effect following sea performance. The sea works itself into a little hill of sorts that we can slide down but the surface of the crest of a building sea moves really fast right at the crest so the wave tries to broach the boat in 3 ways.1 The wave presents a sloped surface that a boat can slide down.
2 The wave moves toward the boat effectively pushing it.
3 The wind (driven by friction) blows in the same direction as the wave and the crest being pushed and sucked along the surface adds even more energy to #1 and 2. The trough of the wave complicates matters further by moving in the opposite direction of wind and crest.*Older sail boats w extremely deep keels resist the broaching tendency quite well. If one was to take a GB, Defever or practically any typical trawler, cut it in half and attach bow sections to bow sections. Now the stern is just like the bow. Lets make it long and narrow w a straight keel and attach a large barn door rudder. Give the rudder a good fast power steering system and we'd have a nearly perfect following sea boat. Large rudders affect directional stability a lot. I increased the size of the rudder on my kayak and it only turned slightly better but gained gobs of directional stability. Basically the more the stern of a boat resembles the bow the better it will handle following seas.


Eric


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 11th of June 2010 10:03:21 PM