Windlass & Rode

When I first bought my boat, 3+ years ago, the PO said it had 238' of 5/16" chain, which rusted all to hell and had to be replaced. Not wanting an all chain rode (I like the bow light so it recovers faster) I replaced it with 20' of 5/16" chain and 150' of* 9/16", 12 strand, Mega Braid. (West Marine said the Mega Braid is the way to go.) When operating the windlass, the Mega Braid slipped in the gypsy and the 5/16" chain struggled. I removed the gypsy, took it to my trusty vendor (SeaTech/ Bucklew) and they said the gypsy was sized for 3/8" chain and 3/8" 3 strand nylon rope! (Not Mega Braid) They replaced my new chain and rode with their recommended size and I now have an anchor and rode that will pull a semi tractor trailer. I also have a 5/16" and 9/16" chain and rode for my stern anchor which I really didn't want. The name plate on the windlass was un-readable and there was no code anywhere on the gypsy that indicated the proper size of chain and rode. The windlass is a Muir Vertical Atlantic 1000 (Chain & Rope combo) and I love it to death.


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Sunday 18th of April 2010 12:00:43 PM

Walt, I can't right now find my notes or photos, but I can tell you there is a 3 digit number inside my gypsy. Very difficult to see... Once I removed the gypsy from the windlass, I practically needed a dentist's oral mirror to find it inside one of the gypsy pockets. Someone at Muir then confirmed the right chain and rope size.

Glad you finally got your rope slippage problem sorted!

Hey ya'allJust thought I'd add a little experience I had to the thread.
I replaced my chain some years ago only to find it slipped after about three links went through the gypsy. I had measured my previous chain every way you can measure, and that's what I bought. Ultimately I learned that imported chain will not work in my gypsy, due to a slight difference in shape. The same sized domestic chain works perfectly. I learned this by taking the gypsy to various sources, laying the chain into the gypsy. I found that the correct chains was able to wrap all the way around the gypsy with each link perfectly centered.
Anyway, my point is simply that when sizing chain, I would take the gypsy to the store with you.
Carey*

SeaHorse II wrote:I removed the gypsy, took it to my trusty vendor (SeaTech/ Bucklew) and they said the gypsy was sized for 3/8" chain and 3/8" 3 strand nylon rope!

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Carey: That's exactly what I did. And you're right! When they wrapped it around the gypsy, all the links fit nicely in the pockets.


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SeaHorse II wrote:

The windlass is a Muir Vertical Atlantic 1000 (Chain & Rope combo) and I love it to death.

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Walt, now all you have to do is get rid of that worthless Bruce (or Bruce-style)*anchor and you'll be all set.*

PS-- That looks like a real nice plating job (or polish job) on your windlass and Sampson post.* I think there should be a law that all boats should have a strong Sampson post.* Very handy device.* (GBs don't have them.)


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 20th of April 2010 11:24:57 PM

Marin: The "Claw" is a knock off that my wife bought for my birthday. It has never been deployed and is used only as jewelry. I have a Danforth and a Bruce that that reside in the lazarette should I ever need to anchor out. Here, in Southern Cal, not much anchoring is done but one must have the "look." I'll admit to being "anal" when it comes to my boat but, again, that's part of the enjoyment.

Nothing wrong with wanting one's boat to look perfect. I'd like it, too, but with my schedule and the age and cosmetic condition of the now-37-year-old boat it would either take a LOT of time I don't have right now or a LOT of money I don't have right now, either. So we do the best we can to at least try to keep things from getting any worse and maybe improve things when we can. We tend to put more emphasis on using it than cosmetically improving it right now. When and if I ever retire we'll be able to work on the appearance more.

As that great Kristofferson song goes, Marin...."you've been readin' mah mail". I have to have a similar view, as my boat hull was laid in 1975, so nearly as old as yours.
PS. She does have a neat hefty solid teak Samson Post tho, and I love it.

-- Edited by Peter B on Thursday 22nd of April 2010 06:51:05 AM

-- Edited by Peter B on Thursday 22nd of April 2010 06:53:54 AM

I hope my writings have not been construed as a knock on older boats or someone's financial condition. I love boats... All kinds of boats. I have never seen an ugly boat in my life as all were designed for a specific mission. My passion for my boat is no different that those who collect antique cars and such. I don't have a vintage Chevy, Porsche, MG, etc. I have a small trawler that has an excellent design (MHO) and fits my particular boating mission to a tee. I treat her with respect and enjoy using her on the weekends. Whether as a means to get out on the water or as a "tree house", to escape the "honey do" environment. She is my pride and joy and I wish everyone could feel as I do about their "tree house."

SeaHorse II wrote:

I hope my writings have not been construed as a knock on older boats or someone's financial condition.

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I didn't interpret them that way.* I was just remarking that being "anal" about one's boat is not a bad thing.* Most of us probably are to the degree we can act on it.

The biggest cosmetic issue on our boat is the hull.* For the first year of fiberglass production at American Marine in Singapore, every GB hull was made under the direct supervision of a fellow named Howard Abbey who built the original molds for the GB36 and GB42 (he also helped Hatteras and other companies get into fiberglass).* Abbey hulls are pretty amazing, probably in part due to their being overbuilt.* But gelcoat back then left something to be desired, and of course who knows how the previous owners treated the boat.

But there are lots of dings and chips in the gelcoat, and 25 years of baking in the California sun before we bought it didn't do it any good either.* There are thin spots and much of the gelcoat on the cabin tops and other sections is eggshelled.* From twenty feet away it looks okay, but....**

We investigated taking the boat to Vancouver, BC and turning it over to a yard up there with a reputation for the best paint work in the region and saying "Fix it."* But even back then (early 2000s), the cost to do this properly was pretty close to $20,000.* We had, and still have, other more important uses for $20,000, so the dings and chips and thin spots are still there.

It would be nice to start with a new boat and keep it that way but that's not going to happen, at least not for awhile.* Also, I met a fellow a few years after we got our GB who was selling his deceased father's beautiful yacht (the father had been the founder and CEO of Alaksa Diesel Electric, known today as Northern Lights.)* The yacht had been backed into by a small freighter that had lost its shifting control.* The impact against the stern of the moored yacht "ballooned" the fiberglass hull enough to break all the connections between the transverse bulkheads and the hull.* The insurance company wanted to total it but the owner loved it so much he took it to Delta in South Seattle and paid to have the yacht completely repaired, including a gorgeous white paint job.* I was complimenting the son on the paint job and said I wished we could do the same for our old GB.

He laughed and said I had two choices.* I could spend a ton of money and have a spectacular paint job put on our boat and then spend the rest of my life in terror that someone will scratch it or I'd mess up a docking and ding it, or I could leave our boat exactly the way it is and just enjoy using it.* He highly recommended the latter.

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Marin you're reading my mail again....I have, up till now had the same view. However, when the question of resale value comes up, it adds another slant. I have put so much time into doing all the refurbishing I can do myself, and increased (yes increased) its value to double what I paid for her, (she was pretty tired inside and out), but, the state of the hull now would hold the price back, and the broker who recently valued it said with hull done from boot-top to gunwhale with a good 2 pack, the value would go up more than what it would cost, it would improve the impression so much, even tho it would go no better. I think I have the SO weakening. A yard has quoted $8000, the superstructure I can do myself....so, fingers crossed......I'll keep you posted.

I don't know what boat values are like in your area. Over here, I could gold-plate our boat and it would not bring any more in resale than any other 37-year-old GB36 in top condition. If we put $20,000 into fixing the finish on the hull and topsides it would probably add no more than a few thousand dollars to the resale value. The GB broker I know as well as the couple of yards we've talked to about this over the years all said don't do it unless you want the boat to look "new" for your own gratification. We would never see the cost of the refinish in the selling price of the boat.

Marin wrote:Over here, I could gold-plate our boat and it would not bring any more in resale than any other 37-year-old GB36 in top condition. "
don't do it unless you want the boat to look "new" for your own gratification

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In our area, Southern Cal, as FF says, paint sells the boat. But I'll admit to Marin's statement that it is mainly for "my gratification." Like real estate, it's all about "curb appeal". Most women, I know, whos husbands have a boat, are interested in the "look" of the boat. When it comes time to sell, all the time and money that was put into the cosmetic upkeep of the boat is returned in the selling price. That's been my experience on selling my last seven boats. Its akin to picking a girl friend. She may not have a brain in her head but if she's really good looking and has a great figure, you can overlook the little things.


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-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Friday 23rd of April 2010 09:48:11 AM

I agree that paint sells the boat (or car or house or....) So a good paint job or gelcoat conditioning will certainly make a boat more appealing to buyers than boats with a lesser finish. And the cost of detailing a boat with a decent finish or paint job to begin with could well be reflected in the selling price.

But the cost of taking an old boat like ours and doing what would be necessary to bring its exterior finish up to the standards of a new or newer boat could never be recouped in the sale. Ten years ago this cost was estimated to be around $20,000 for our boat, and today with the increases in labor, yard, and materials costs, that sum is more likely to be in the neighborhood of $30,000 or even more. That's not far from a third of the typical selling price for boats of this vintage in good condition. So tack that $30,000 onto the normal selling price for GBs of this vintage and there's no way the market is going to pay as much for a 1973 GB with a nice paint job as it would take to buy a much younger GB that most likely has an almost equally nice finish.