Not a good way to start the day....

Ocean Breeze NL said:

The one thing in my home town that I am still thankful for is that neighbors look out for and action what needs to be done to help others.

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Agreed Elwin,
If there's problem with a boat in my town, by the time the owner gets the news the locals will have things well in hand in fact they will most likely have done any needed repairs!!
I suppose it's different in a big marina where I hear, you can't leave a shore power lead out overnight or it will disappear, having said that, anyone who was good enough to "gemmie" the lock off of my cabin door in order to gain access to the bilges and save my boat from sinking, would become a friend for life, certainly not sued for damages.
The owner must be devastated, I really feel for him.

hollywood8118 said:

I know this is what has been shoved down our throats due to our legal system. But... I would rather be sued for trying to do the right thing than to have to live with my guilt for not. I am a true believer in Karma HOLLYWOOD

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Besides, every time I get involved in a boat listing from water intrusion, I think I ALWAYS hear a tiny voice inside the boat calling for help. I couldn't take a chance that it might not be true.

healhustler said:

Besides, every time I get involved in a boat listing from water intrusion, I think I ALWAYS hear a tiny voice inside the boat calling for help. I couldn't take a chance that it might not be true.

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Good one Larry! Little bi o' humor in this sad thread.

I could not sleep at night if I had walked away or not have taken direct action to not only try to save the vessel but also prevent the heart break to the family who owned the vessel. It still always come back to the golden rule. Put your self in their shoes and then act correctly. Why are so many people so afraid of lawyers and their B.S. How can you look in the mirror. Better to die with fellow warriors then live wrapped in a blanket with the squaws. Truly, Willaim Ronald Turnow
.

This started about midnight when I first noticed problem and by the time the Dockmaster and I got back to the boat she had water in the cockpit. It would have been impossible to find the leak in the engine room. I did manage to turn the power breaker off since there was a live wire going to the boat. Glad no one decided to board before. CG arrived about 15 minutes later but absolutely refused to do anything.
Lots of lessons to be learned here starting with having a second contact in case you can't be reached.

Forgot to mention that the marina employee/Dockmaster lived on the premises. I initially thought because of this "stroke of luck" things would turn out OK.

Bill Ranson said:

I was in a transient slip once and noticed that the unoccupied boat in the next slip seemed a bit lower in the water than when we arrived. We had admired the boat earlier so I could tell it looked different.
I notified the Dockmaster who came to verify and then left to call the owner. After a couple of sundowners no one had showed up and the boat was obviously taking on water.
I again walked to the dock office and was informed that they could not find the owner and that there was nothing they could do without permission. Coast Guard showed up with a pump but would not board boat because owner not present.
The marina put spill booms around and we all watched as the boat sank. Talk about sad.
I found out later that the engine had been removed that day and the mechanic had failed to plug the exhaust. Not sure how you could miss that but that was the story.

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If you stepped onto the boat and pumped it out, you could probably claim salvage rights to the boat.

Very heartbreaking scene. I can't even imagine how the owner feels.

ksanders said:

I have two high bilge water switches.

Either one goes off and less than 10 seconds later I get a text and a e-mail on my Iphone, my Ipad, my home computer, and my office computer.

Then I get the same text and e-mail every minute until the alarm goes away.

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In similar fashion, when choosing an alarm system I picked the one that makes a phone call instead of text/email. My idea was that it's a lot easier to miss a text and even easier with emails. If my boat needs attention I want immediate phone call. The siren with flashing strobe goes off on the boat as well.

Interestingly enough these additional security features also help while underway. When I installed the system I mounted the sensor slightly on the low side. So, when I was in rough seas the collected rain water in the bilge splashed on to the sensor triggering the alarm. I was close enough to shore the the phone call stating that it was the bilge zone. Considering the fact that boat's high water pump didn't go off I logically suspected that it's due to the splash. ER cameras didn't show any extra water, so when I got down below I confirmed the suspected cause. Even though we can consider this as a false alarm, but the good thing is that it never hearts having extra protection, especially with ability to notify you while you're remote.

twistedtree said:

If you stepped onto the boat and pumped it out, you could probably claim salvage rights to the boat.

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Kinda kills the whole Karma thing don't you think?

healhustler said:

Besides, every time I get involved in a boat listing from water intrusion, I think I ALWAYS hear a tiny voice inside the boat calling for help. I couldn't take a chance that it might not be true.

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I wondered if a voice instead of horn could be wired into automatic pumps (along with flashing light) yelling out "HELP ME - I'm sinking"

more ideas:

A break glass in case of sinking box near the boarding area of vessel with a strobing light inside (same circuit as light above) to draw attention to it.
Hit button for generator driven pump or at least kick arse electrical one.

The phone alert setup that has been mentioned being a subscriptions service and it going to the provider who can then organise a fast response.

Owners who have these systems in place then getting a reduction in insurance premiums.

Of course these would only really be of use to those who park in a marina and due to numbers would probably only be viable in the US.

I have been thinking of buying a Honda trash pump for just such an event. You could stick the intake in the cabin and pump like h*ll, it would likely not stop the sinking, although it will do about 8000 gals per hour, but might delay it long enough for real barge pumps to arrive. Make a good fire hose too, with the correct hose. The owner's insurance could pay for the pump and the gas!

Bought the Honda pump for offshore emergencies when I had a sailboat. Test it at the beginnig of the season, run it dry and stow it. Moves lots of water fast. The Pacific Trawler has very shallow bilges so it'll also come in handy should the need arise. Because of the shallow bilges, I plan on installing dedicated high water alarm with an external noise maker and internet/cell notifications. The previous photos just moved this project to number 1.

GFC said:

As I walked down the dock, this is was I saw ...

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Any update on the cause?

Greetings,
Mr. Rick B. Water got inside...

Rick, not yet. The salvage crew is supposed to start tomorrow. I'm just guessing but I'm thinking they're going to put flotation bags inside and slowly lift it, pumping water out as it lifts.

If I had to guess on a cause I'd say that a thru-hull hose let go and the bilge pumps couldn't keep up with it.

There's an exhaust vent that comes out the stbd side of the boat right at the stern of our boat. I always thought it was for diesel heat but the owner told me it was his bilge blowers. He leaves it running to keep the battery smell out of the bilge.

I noticed Friday night that it wasn't running so the batteries may have run down and then were dead when the leak started.

The boat was refinished inside and out 2 years ago and the hull is in great shape, so I'd be surprised if a board let go in the hull. We should know by Friday or Saturday when they get it lifted what the cause was.

Google Earth is amazing. Took me a while to work it out from the photos, but I found it. Better times for that boat...

GFC said:

Rick, not yet. The salvage crew is supposed to start tomorrow. I'm just guessing but........the owner told me it was his bilge blowers. He leaves it running to keep the battery smell out of the bilge. I noticed Friday night that it wasn't running so the batteries may have run down and then were dead when the leak started.

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I would have thought leaving bilge blowers on an exercise in futility when unattended, would do little to reduce smells, and I doubt the smells eminate from the batts, so presume you meant the bilges. I would be worried re them either arcing out, being electric motors, and causing a fire, rather than preventing, when left on all that time, but also for sure they are going to run down the batts quite quickly if something interrupted the shore power for any time. This might have been why the bilge pumps failed in the end..? Guess we will find out soon..?

Very sad.
I know several cases similar to this, being at port.
It is easy to give advices after a tragedy like this one, but:

1.- How many bilge pumps do you have and how do they activate, sequentially? Do you have a main one and on top an emergency one?
Do you check them putting water with a hose?

2.- When in auto, do you have a buzzer indicating that the pump is working, audible also at the flybridge?, this is important as EVERYTHING goes to the bilge in a boat. it could be petrol, sweet water, raw water, etc, and you need to be aware particularly when running, that, SOMETHING is leaking. Stop and check.
The commented (HELP ME warning) could be connected in parallel to this buzzer.

3.- When not in permanent use, (for instance, weekends use) is very useful to have in parallel, connected to the pump a CYCLE counter, therefore you can know how many times the pump has been activated when you were not on board. It is very good to detect preliminary leakages, before they become wider, that is my installation

4.- Pumps must be connected independent of the main 12V switch panel, as to operate automatically, only protected by a powerful circuit breaker directly to the main battery bank ( to avoid fire in case of heating or blocking).

5.- Shore power is vital for these cases, check frequently that AC input is ok

6.- The cost of all this installation is absolutely minimum vs the potential damage that may be avoided.

Hope it helps

Greetings,
Mr. alberto. All good points. Thank you...sort of....NOW I've got some alterations to do.

There have been many great suggestions on this informative (keep boat afloat and possibly save lives) thread! I much appreciate them all. Warning signals and pump sequence counts for pump(s) ON when boat is left at dock or while cruising, sleeping or otherwise aboard out and about are very useful; I have moved "Bilge Pump Improvements" to upper elevation in my Ta Do List!

Got to thinking... For at dock with an independent AC line have a REALLY BIG volume pump that can activate if need is ever called for. Of course with bells and whistles to let it be known that a boat needs assistance. This same pump could be run by gen set if required while on the water. Also - For S&G (sort of - lol) there could be a flip up page that automatically activates inside salon window with boat owners picture on it and printed with such as... Seems my boat is sinking - PLEASE call authorities to save my boat - I grant entry aboard to any person or organization who can help save my boat! Phone #'s, text/email... etc on the card!


Maybe bigger than life hologram; ourselves on bow screaming HELP, I'M SINKING!!!

Hey - here's one:

"Float Bags" Not too unlike auto air bags - except... they stay inflated. Once hull reaches certain WL level the bags automatically inflate in bilge and other boat areas to accomplish "Float Bag" displace of water ingress trying to fill boat! Bag containers could be placed all over under the floors.

If someone patents and markets this give me a $$$ jolt for concept!

Happy Boating Daze - Art

Art said:

Hey - here's one:

"Float Bags" Not too unlike auto air bags - except... they stay inflated. Once hull reaches certain WL level the bags automatically inflate in bilge and other boat areas to accomplish "Float Bag" displace of water ingress trying to fill boat! Bag containers could be placed all over under the floors.

If someone patents and markets this give me a $$$ jolt for concept!

Happy Boating Daze - Art

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You're too late. That already exists. Read it in Pacific Yachting years ago.

Trash pump takes up little space in the aft corner of the flybridge, hoses in the lazarette. I have used it to wash stuff off the dock, and to de-water a very full bilge. It doesn't take long to deploy, but when needed, gives great comfort. Honda, with 15 ft 2.5" suction hose, 100ft of fire hose, total cost under $400.00. Peace of mind, priceless.

I will send pictures of my cycle counter

Independently of a hole made by a crash, the highest water ingress flow should come from an engine raw water hose cracked.
If you are able to understand how much water intake is flowing, you can estimate your main bilge pump power.

Emergency pump should be double than this.

I use the RULE ones, to me the most reliable ones.

Also try to use electronic level switches, because the do not get trapped, and also begins some seconds after signal ( in order to avoid constant working due to rolling), and stops some seconds later , avoiding line return water when stopping if you do not have anti-return valves after the pump.

Remember always the rule of having under water line, all hoses connections with double ss steel clamps.
ALWAYS

Art said:

There have been many great suggestions on this informative (keep boat afloat and possibly save lives) thread! I much appreciate them all. Warning signals and pump sequence counts for pump(s) ON when boat is left at dock or while cruising, sleeping or otherwise aboard out and about are very useful; I have moved "Bilge Pump Improvements" to upper elevation in my Ta Do List!

Got to thinking... For at dock with an independent AC line have a REALLY BIG volume pump that can activate if need is ever called for. Of course with bells and whistles to let it be known that a boat needs assistance. This same pump could be run by gen set if required while on the water. Also - For S&G (sort of - lol) there could be a flip up page that automatically activates inside salon window with boat owners picture on it and printed with such as... Seems my boat is sinking - PLEASE call authorities to save my boat - I grant entry aboard to any person or organization who can help save my boat! Phone #'s, text/email... etc on the card!


Maybe bigger than life hologram; ourselves on bow screaming HELP, I'M SINKING!!!

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On top of this, what about marina sailors? Do they check these situations?
When you see an unattended boat with a permanent water drain coming out, not necessarily is the air conditioning!! (particularly in Alaska in winter)
I watched this situation in a marina after three days in a boat beside of me, called the guards, and it was a serious damage....

High water alarms, crash pumps, cell phone tie ins to a klaxon etc are all well and good. But keeping the hoses in good repair, being anal about addressing ANY water in the bilge, through hulls in good shape, boat watchers if vessel berthed far from home etc trump all the after the fact alarms.

Seven years ago a KK 42 berthed two slips down from us sank one night. The owner had been redoing his grounding wires to the through hulls and inadvertently hooked them up to a hot lead, thus bronze valves met their fate.

My take, nothing beats good preventative maintenance and closing a through hull when it comes to keeping our vessels afloat.

Good subject GFC, too bad it happened but hopefully we can learn from it.

GFC,

What is the final word? What was it? Did I miss you saying it?

Trash pumps are great emergency gear but most are gasoline.

With ethanol in the fuel the storage life is perhaps a month.

The old metal outboard tanks or Army Jeep metal tanks are airtight and should prevent the ethanol from grabbing water .

Also you local small aircraft field (FBO) will sell gas with NO ethanol , that with Store & Start (or similar) may be useful if ever needed.

FF said:

With ethanol in the fuel the storage life is perhaps a month.



Also you local small aircraft field (FBO) will sell gas with NO ethanol , that with Store & Start (or similar) may be useful if ever needed.

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Good point or you can try this site as well...

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Our assistance towing company just runs our Honda trash (salvage pumps) dry each time as they have a fuel cut off and they start first or second pull every time and this is our fourth year using E-10 fuel. We do go through several tank fulls a year....so fresh gas I'm sure helps.

Running them dry does 2 things...the primary reason we do it is we have found the carbs will sometimes overflow and hydrolock the cylinder with gas....secondarily it keeps the carbs cleaner.

These pumps also live in the bilge of utility boats or on deck covered in a tarp....they look 10 years older for every year we have them.

Worth their weight in gold when you or anyone else is sinking...as a fire hose they can help but for boat fires involving fuels or oils that are on fire...usually only pumping foam will put it out completely.