Do trawlers roll a lot?

The very short answer to this thread question: "Is the Pope a Catholic".
(No religious offense intended, just mild humour)

Eric,
You nailed it!! This is the most comfortable handling. I rather enjoy the timing in making the turn into the wake just timed to miss their stern. The look in the eye as you make the turn brings a chuckle. Particularly if the passing boat is one of our local charter boats with 'nimrod' tourist on board.
Being slow, and keeping an eye aft you have the advantage of being prepared. Often as the passing is completed a short comment on 16 becomes the cherry on top.
There has been times that I sought out the offender in the harbor and discussed some simple logic. "Say Son, when you saw my slow boat ahead of you some 1/2 mile or more, would it be a problem to swing out at a slight degree and pass with some distance between us?" "Just asking." " I mean, a little later I will be coming by you as you are trolling with your charter guest. would it seem fair that I took pictures of your boat as I circled at 6-7 knots creating a series of continued rolling waves as your guest hang on for dear life wondering what in the hell that fellow is taking pictures for?"
Just say.
Thanks Eric, now my frustration with fast boats that have to brush my outboard bumpers as they pass.
PS: I like your new boat picture posting. Am still working on how to shrink my picture down.Waiting for a Granddaughter to wander by.
A.M.Johnson
27 foot Marben
"Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he will just kill you"

Ready to turn into this fellow's wake.

markpierce said:

Ready to turn into this fellow's wake.

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Ever noticed how the wake of tugs and ships totally destroys your steering? The disturbance underwater from those big props, and hulls too, is best avoided, especially with other vessels nearby.

If you think tugs throw out a huge wake, you should try getting over the wake of a nuclear submarine scootin' right along on the surface. Most of the boat (yes, they are called "boats) is underwater, so the wake is quite large.

You probably want to give aircraft carriers a wide berth too . . .



USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) conducts rudder checks.

My wife and I were rounding Cape Caution in our sea kayaks, and met two huge tugs without tows "racing" in the opposite direction. The swells were big enough that the horizon and shore disappeared at the bottom of the swells trough, then we got hit by the two wakes coming from different directions. Like it wasn't epic enough already!

ancora said:

...try getting over the wake of a nuclear submarine scootin' right along on the surface. Most of the boat (yes, they are called "boats) is underwater, so the wake is quite large.

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Well yes, some of the non nuclear ones were actually called "U-Boats".
Now why am I thinking of Northern Spy`s avatar?

Only when evading Sea Ray yahoo wakes.

Blue Heron said:

Only when evading Sea Ray yahoo wakes.

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i resemble that remark! My Ray at Yahoo speed was hardly in the water to make a wake cept in a turn and then she would skid for a good bit before she'd take a bite....oh how i loved that feeling...kinda like on ice

After reading every post in this thread I think I'll forget about buying any type of straight out power cruiser (they cost to much to run) and buy a nice 38' or 42' Trimaran. Trimarans sail well, they are fast and under motor power alone, they run on the smell of an oily rag, about half a litre per hour...They are also shallow draft...Perfect for the Great Barrier Reef area. Did I mention the fact, they don't roll a lot

kando said:

After reading every post in this thread I think I'll forget about buying any type of straight out power cruiser (they cost to much to run) and buy a nice 38' or 42' Trimaran. Trimarans sail well, they are fast and under motor power alone, they run on the smell of an oily rag, about half a litre per hour...They are also shallow draft...Perfect for the Great Barrier Reef area. Did I mention the fact, they don't roll a lot

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they have there good points but have you tried crossing the bar with one? They look good on paper but if they were there would be lots more around

Art said:

Hard Chine: By their own volition... well designed hulls, superstructure and low center of gravity boats with twin screw powered planing hulls, having a good sized keel, roll considerably less than other designs while traveling above hull speed; depending on sea conditions in respect to speed traveled this bottom design tends to stay more perpendicular. At anchor... stability depends on wind and sea conditions as well as anchoring technique (fore... or fore and aft) for any style hull. Of course many type stabilizers may assist stability during nearly any sea condition and boat operation or still position.

Art

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That sums it up pretty well. My trawler has both hard chines and a good size keel both of which help to reduce roll. Round bottom trawlers often roll like crazy but its a "smooth roll" haha. Models like mine that have a high flybridge and large vinyl enclosed sun deck have a lot of windage which can add to the excitement of docking when both wind and tide are moving the wrong way. Down East boats up in Maine (where the wind usually always blows and the sea is rarely calm) tend to be built with a lower profile pilot house style with less windage and a lower center of gravity.

The worst roll of all is in a wide and hard chine boat a-beam to a steep and short sea. Some call it a "snap roll". It's VERY annoying and even dangerous. Lots of fishermen are exposed to this while fishing. That's not why I rarely fish. Too much boating to be done.

manyboats said:

The worst roll of all is in a wide and hard chine boat a-beam to a steep and short sea. Some call it a "snap roll". It's VERY annoying and even dangerous. Lots of fishermen are exposed to this while fishing. That's not why I rarely fish. Too much boating to be done.

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Eric

It's not wise to run a-beam to any type of sea that is bothersome for any reason in any style boat. That's another reason mariners came up with the miraculous invention of tacking!

BillMFl said:

That sums it up pretty well. My trawler has both hard chines and a good size keel both of which help to reduce roll. Round bottom trawlers often roll like crazy but its a "smooth roll" haha. Models like mine that have a high flybridge and large vinyl enclosed sun deck have a lot of windage which can add to the excitement of docking when both wind and tide are moving the wrong way. Down East boats up in Maine (where the wind usually always blows and the sea is rarely calm) tend to be built with a lower profile pilot house style with less windage and a lower center of gravity.

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Aint no perfect boat but they all excel at one thing or another. A perfect boat would be like having a perfect wife, only exists in your dreams.

manyboats said:

The worst roll of all is in a wide and hard chine boat a-beam to a steep and short sea. Some call it a "snap roll". It's VERY annoying and even dangerous. Lots of fishermen are exposed to this while fishing. That's not why I rarely fish. Too much boating to be done.

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While I have heard of such seas the only time I have seen them on the Atlantic or Gulf of Mexico is in inlets where the outgoing tide stacks up the incoming sea. This can be very dangerous but only a foolish boater would be caught on the beam. I've heard that the Great Lakes often see this condition, but we usually have long swells (rarely calm seas in Maine) and even with relatively large swells we plow along with an easy motion. I am not a long range blue water boater and no boat rides comfortable in a big blow.

"The worst roll of all is in a wide and hard chine boat a-beam to a steep and short sea. Some call it a "snap roll". It's VERY annoying and even dangerous."

Nope,, the worst roll is in a catamaran with wider beam and higher flotation further outboard than even a chine boat.

Art said:

Eric

It's not wise to run a-beam to any type of sea that is bothersome for any reason in any style boat. That's another reason mariners came up with the miraculous invention of tacking!

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Well, not any style of boat. It's also why they invented paravanes and active stabilizers. I prefer a beam sea on my boat vs the alternatives (other than dead calm, that is).

FF said:

"The worst roll of all is in a wide and hard chine boat a-beam to a steep and short sea. Some call it a "snap roll". It's VERY annoying and even dangerous."

Nope,, the worst roll is in a catamaran with wider beam and higher flotation further outboard than even a chine boat.

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Never experienced a snap roll but I really like cinnabuns!:lol:

I was (and still am actually) a member of the Albineers of BC Canada. Most all members had the little Albin 25 ... as we did. The Albin's crossection was roundish by most mariners definition and most everybody complained about the "snap roll". That was the only really bad thing about that otherwise wonderful boat but the roll was so quick and "snappy that's what they called it.

Art says "It's not wise to run a-beam to any type of sea that is bothersome for any reason in any style boat." I was inclined to say "DUH everyone knows that" but fishermen do it all the time bottom fishing and if your half smart you'll know that most any boat will assume a position parallel to the waves w no power on. And you're much more than half smart art.

BillMFI,
Cinnibuns for me too. But beam seas that will rock your boat uncomfortably are very common indeed.

manyboats said:

I was (and still am actually) a member of the Albineers of BC Canada. Most all members had the little Albin 25 ... as we did. The Albin's crossection was roundish by most mariners definition and most everybody complained about the "snap roll". That was the only really bad thing about that otherwise wonderful boat but the roll was so quick and "snappy that's what they called it.

Art says "It's not wise to run a-beam to any type of sea that is bothersome for any reason in any style boat." I was inclined to say "DUH everyone knows that" but fishermen do it all the time bottom fishing and if your half smart you'll know that most any boat will assume a position parallel to the waves w no power on. And you're much more than half smart art.

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TY for such a high compliment Eric... please note that my operative term was 'run a-beam"; which connotes cruising a boat at some upper speed... not bottom fishing! lol

My bad Art ... I spoze I better read more carefully before posting.

I have a problem w my i-pad as it continuously selects the words to post w/o my input it changes the words I type to what it thinks is most appropriate. And frequently it's not of course. It would help if I learned to type looking at the screen instead of the keyboard but my fingers don't do that very gracefully. I couldn't play the piano for this reason. So I usually read through and edit my own stuff before hitting the post bar. HaHa but sometimes I'm in a hurry.

ancora said:

If you think tugs throw out a huge wake, you should try getting over the wake of a nuclear submarine scootin' right along on the surface. Most of the boat (yes, they are called "boats) is underwater, so the wake is quite large.

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Leaving Norfolk we were waked pretty good by a sub. Susan chastised them on the radio until I reminded her that they had nuclear missiles. Chuck

Marin said:

.....And I don't believe there is a rule that says displacement hulls have to have round bottoms and chines. I've posted these shots before, which I did not take, but it shows one of the sampans or aku boats that were built locally in Hawaii in the later 1940s and early 50s for the tuna (aku) fishery there. These relatively narrow boats incorporated flat albeit curved bottom sections, hard chines, and even gunwale " hull bulges" (my term) to provide roll stability in the often very rough waters these boats fished in, like the infamous Molokai Channel. The "hull bulge" is obvious in the second shot and was quite effective as these boats were often rolled to their gunwales in the windy swells and waves around the islands.

all the aku boats had the same basic lines above and below the waterline-- but whoever it was, he understood the nature of the open ocean the boats were going to work in and how to design a hull to effectively meet the challenge.

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Interesting posting Marin. I'm going to have to look up some more info on these hull shapes if there is not more discussion of them as I read thru this tread.

Another item I see yet to be mentioned is bilge keels? Do they work to limit the rolling motion?

psneeld said:

I have about 5000 hard hours in full keel Shamrocks as an assistance tower...I have completely rebuilt them from the keel to the cabin top...they are submarines they are so wet (without a pilothouse/windshield wiper I almost refuse to run one) they can reach 30 knots but struggle even with a 454 in them, they stall pretty bad in sharp turns with a really nasty wall of water coming over the bow, pound badly in anything more than 2 feet above 16-18 knots...yet I can't think of a better swiss army knife for assistance towing work (for the bang for the buck of what they cost now)...but I would NEVER own one as a private boater...they can do everything asked OK but do nothing well (plus I have fished them for over 10 years on a regular basis so it's not all work)....

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What would you think of slowing that Shamrock hull design down to something around displacement speed? It sure is nice looking.

FF said:

"The worst roll of all is in a wide and hard chine boat a-beam to a steep and short sea. Some call it a "snap roll". It's VERY annoying and even dangerous."

Nope,, the worst roll is in a catamaran with wider beam and higher flotation further outboard than even a chine boat.

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That is a snap roll !
www.RunningTideYachts.com

brian eiland said:

What would you think of slowing that Shamrock hull design down to something around displacement speed? It sure is nice looking.

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No as it is not a displacement speed hull and wouldn't get the job done at those speeds.

It's best feature is that it's a little good at everything ad really good at nothing...kinda like a Swiss Army knife. If you can only drive one (relatively inexpensive) boat for assistance towing or carry one tool in a survival situation......

psneeld said:

No as it is not a displacement speed hull and wouldn't get the job done at those speeds.

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I'm having trouble defining exactly what the optimum 'displacement speed hull' is ??

As I looked thu that rather lengthy subject thread "Hull Shapes....show us your girls bottom", it appears to me that many different hull shapes can be operated reasonable well at displacement speeds. It's when they try to get above their displacement speed that they need a lot of tweeking.

I don't see where this general shape is that much different than the Grand Banks hulls, other than being a little flatter in the stern?

Besides the FACT - - > That: Every individual configuration in a hull WILL make it react differently with water it travels through and the sea conditions it encounters while traveling or at stand still; as well as speeds it travels, weight on boat's superstructure as it gets buffeted by winds, and a myriad of other of the boat’s entire-design/natural-conditions/weight-load-area factors/pilot’s-capabilities!

Traveling along in most midsized pleasure cruisers at a bit below (4 to 5% below) mathematically calculated hull speed is usually just about the most fuel efficient rate of travel - IMHO

Every person who owns or often pilots a particular boat has learned (instinctually “knows”) what is correct speed for their boat (if they have more than one brain cell that is – lol). In addition there are many who are absolutely locked into belief that their D or SD/SP or P hull design are simply way above the other hull shapes... well, all I can say is each to their own!

Bottom line as I see it is if any one of us likes our boat and she handles well enough to please us – then we should be pretty darn happy! This is (trawler) pleasure cruising after all!!

PS: If the hull and boat do not please us then we should either not purchase that craft – or, if we already own it – as Barnacle Bill the Sailor might say – Dump the Bitch!