Auto-pilot install

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soxknots33

Newbie
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
4
Location
usa
Vessel Name
reel lucky
Vessel Make
marine trader trawler 34 ft
I have a Marine Trader 34' trawler. My question is can a wheel mounted auto pilot work on this vessel? :confused:
 
probably but I would check with the manufacturer's about limitations...

is your vessel hydraulic steering or mechanical?
 
auto pilot install

Thank you. Hydraulic steering, displacement 17,000 lbs. Most wheel mounted types are rated to 13,000, my thought is with the hydraulic steering assisting the pilot it should be able to steer the boat and hold a course. Your thoughts?
 
my thoughts are don't do it...there's a reason for the different types.

though it could be done..you have to check to see whether the turns of your wheel and the loading and the range of the wheel pilot would get the job done...best discussed with a manufacturer.
 
soxknots33 said:
I have a Marine Trader 34' trawler. My question is can a wheel mounted auto pilot work on this vessel? :confused:
Click to expand...

A wheel autopilot will work fine on your boat. We had an old ST3000 on a boat that displaced 32000 lbs even though the AP was rated for ~15,000 lbs. It didn't hold the course in heavy weather though. If we had kept the boat, we would have upgraded to a CPT wheel pilot.

The ST3000 is no longer made but you can buy used units for around $500 on Ebay. You can also make your own by using a heavy duty windshield wiper motor and the ST3000 control box which has the compass inside.

CPT is still in business and does wheel pilots to over 50 to feet maybe larger.
 
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cpt auto pilot

Thank you. Will check it out. See you are in JAX, lived there for 20yrs. Worked for Atlantic Dry Dock and sister company Atlantic Marine. 17 plus yrs, 1990 to 2007.
John
 
A wheel driven AP may not work at all well.

The problem is turning left and right the hyd pump behind the wheel will leak differently internally in either direction.

The AP expects the boat to go straight (mostly) when the wheel is centered.

As the center may shift as the wheel is exercised there comes a point where the AP looses it.

This can be a few min , or a few hours , depending on the internal leakage of the wheel hydraulics.

If you mark the "center" of the wheel before an outing (masking tape), you should be able to see how long it takes for center to be lost.

If the system is fairly tight , simply turning off and on the AP every half hour might be better than a std pump and cylinder style installation.

Many modern electronics don't go too crazy as the wheel position on a sail boat will change on course with sail loading.

Really depends on what you can live with.
 
I agree with FF, although a wheel steerer may work, it may not and much time will be wasted. Start by finding out what others, with the same vessel are using and how they like it.

Hydraulic steering, unless it is power steering, will not help make up for an underpowered unit, it may even add resistance depending on line size and type of oil used.
 
I've got the Simrad WP5000 Wheel Pilot on my 34 Californian which weighs over 18000 lbs. It has hydraulic steering, came with the boat when I bought it 6 years ago and works well. It's a bit slow in reacting in following seas even with the gain set to the maximum, but it holds its own in all other conditions. It has adjustments for number of wheel turns lock-to-lock from one to five turns.

Interestingly, upon seeing the posts above, I looked in the manual and it states, "Your WheelPilot 5000 is a two part autopilot suitable for a wide variety of wheel steered sailing vessels." and "Note that the WP5000 is not suitable for hydraulic steering systems." Well, I'll be! FlyWright is a hydraulic-steered power vessel and it sure seems to do just fine.

YMMV

img_165984_0_bd0a03fb6840875d6a67b7c5ec068c1d.jpg
 
FF said:
A wheel driven AP may not work at all well.

The problem is turning left and right the hyd pump behind the wheel will leak differently internally in either direction.

The AP expects the boat to go straight (mostly) when the wheel is centered.

As the center may shift as the wheel is exercised there comes a point where the AP looses it.

This can be a few min , or a few hours , depending on the internal leakage of the wheel hydraulics.

If you mark the "center" of the wheel before an outing (masking tape), you should be able to see how long it takes for center to be lost.

If the system is fairly tight , simply turning off and on the AP every half hour might be better than a std pump and cylinder style installation.

Many modern electronics don't go too crazy as the wheel position on a sail boat will change on course with sail loading.

Really depends on what you can live with.
Click to expand...

:confused: Doesn't a wheel auto pilot steer via a compass heading. If the AP has to work harder in one direction vs the other to maintain course because of internal leakage as referenced above so...? What am I missing here?

A downside to wheel autopilots are they are usually stand alone systems so you can't hooked up to your MFD though.
 
What am I missing here?

The boat may end up being able to steer left , but not right , till recentered and reset.
 
This kind of A/P would definitely work better on a boat like mine with chain and rod mechanical steering, and Baltimore Lurker has put a similar unit on his boat, virtually a sister ship to mine, and it works quite well.
However, discussion with Raymarine re putting a wheel pilot on mine, in the end convinced me it would be best, although much more expensive, to go for the unit designed for this type with rotary motor and extra sprocket and chain linkage behind the steering hub/bulkhead.
I am still convinced however a wheel pilot would work, albeit in a less robust way. I'm still pondering....
 
IF we build another boat ( 39ft) it will have whipstaff steering with no stretch rope , and use a sail boat tiller style AP.

$300 or so.

KISS
 
Peter B said:
However, discussion with Raymarine re putting a wheel pilot on mine, in the end convinced me it would be best ...
Click to expand...

Just out of curiousity, which unit did Raymarine suggest and what is the price?
 
Here's a shot of the WP4000 that a PO installed on my boat. (I have chain/rod mechanical steering so I cannot comment on the hydraulic issues. ) It's still working fine, though as I commented once before, it's not too effective in heavy or following seas.

Also, you need to decide which helm you're planning to use it on -- I see Flyright's got one on the lower helm.

Lurker and I talked about this several yr ago when he decided to go this same route, but I couldn't locate that thread.
 

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Been there done that... it will work, sort of, in most circumstances but it will be noisy and jerky and just plain irritating, why not just do it right.
 
boatpoker said:
Been there done that... it will work, sort of, in most circumstances but it will be noisy and jerky and just plain irritating, why not just do it right.
Click to expand...


If you are starting from scratch, and want to invest $$$$ in an autopilot, I'd agree that a networked, super-sophisticated system might be warranted. But for us MT 34 guys with 30-40 year old boats....putting $10k into a steering system probably ain't gonna happen. Whatever works ...works!
 
RickB said:
Just out of curiousity, which unit did Raymarine suggest and what is the price?
Click to expand...
Rick, they didn't quote an exact price, because it would be a system made up fo rotary motor (that's the most expensive part for some reason), then coupled to a choice of head units of varying sophistication, and then whether one wanted remotes etc, but it added up to well in excess of $A5000, whereas the wheel pilot version was ~ $2000.
I'm still actually not fully convinced the cheaper one wouldn't more than suffice for my needs.
 
To the OP's question...Yes.

The Question is for how long, before needing to be reset.
 
ARoss said:
If you are starting from scratch, and want to invest $$$$ in an autopilot, I'd agree that a networked, super-sophisticated system might be warranted. But for us MT 34 guys with 30-40 year old boats....putting $10k into a steering system probably ain't gonna happen. Whatever works ...works!
Click to expand...

I got a Raymarine ST6002 for $400.00 and an Octopus hydraulic pump for $600.00 on ebay. Another $50 for hose and fittings, took about 4 hours to install ..... works perfectly. No need to spend 10k
 
boatpoker said:
I got a Raymarine ST6002 on Ebay for $400.00 and an Octopus hydraulic pump for $600.00, another $50 for hose and fittings, took about 4 hours to install ..... works perfectly. No need to spend 10k
Click to expand...

Agreed... if you are going to use a "not recommended" system anyhow...there are $999 new in the box systems (for smaller boats) that will work too...maybe not in all conditions or forever...but they will work.

If anyone was able to adapt a bunch of inexpensive pieces and parts or use a system designed for something else I would have investigated it.

boarpoker is correct that about the most inexpensive wayinto a decent system is to buy a used brain /compass /hydraulic pump and then look for inexpensive fittings/tubing and the rest is just hooking it all up.
 
Which raymarine wheel auto pilot???
 
I just posted this on the other AP thread, I think the same applies here.

I really think the AP is an item that you want to buy the best you can afford. It might save your life. Let's say your injured or limited and in rough weather. The AP's ability to steer your boat might be critical to your safety/comfort. You need to consider the AP to be a mate on board and choose accordingly. If your strictly inland then this consideration might not apply however.

I've been very pleased with my Raymarine X30 corepack, ST70 control head and Smart Controller. This setup steers my 60,000lbs in following seas better then I can if I have the gain set at 7 or higher.
 
Daddyo said:
I just posted this on the other AP thread, I think the same applies here.

I really think the AP is an item that you want to buy the best you can afford. It might save your life. Let's say your injured or limited and in rough weather. The AP's ability to steer your boat might be critical to your safety/comfort. You need to consider the AP to be a mate on board and choose accordingly. If your strictly inland then this consideration might not apply however.

I've been very pleased with my Raymarine X30 corepack, ST70 control head and Smart Controller. This setup steers my 60,000lbs in following seas better then I can if I have the gain set at 7 or higher.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with the safety factor....even daily use it keeps you more alert (assuming you are disciplined enough to not be distracted) and allows more steering watch combinations.

I have no idea why people would argue that they are not "needed" to the point that they would never own or would even remove current ones from their vessel. Sure you don't need one... but about 90% of the stuff you have on boats you don't "need" either but it make boating easier, safer or just plain more enjoyable.
 
Am I missing something here? If the OP has hydraulic steering, why would he want a belt drive autopilot? If it is a cost thing, Comnavs are bulletproof and relatively inexpensive. Idea of prices here (no affiliation with Comnav or WMJ)
 
Northern Spy said:
Am I missing something here? If the OP has hydraulic steering, why would he want a belt drive autopilot? If it is a cost thing, Comnavs are bulletproof and relatively inexpensive. Idea of prices here (no affiliation with Comnav or WMJ)
Click to expand...

Defiinite thumbs up on the Comnav. Watch eBay for a while and you can fine a good used one. One other great thing -- when you call and get support, you talk to the actual engineers. Highly recommended.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
 
I would think the success of a wheel mounted system would be dependant on how easy to operate your steering is.

I have an old Autohelm 4000 wheel mounted system with mechanical steering, although my boat is a little lighter than a MT 34 (7 tonnes) and the steering is very light. The system works great in anything up to 6ft+ seas, when you want to be steering manually anyway.

An autopilot system wasn't high on my priorities when boat shopping, but I am so happy the boat was fitted with one.
It makes single handed operation so much safer and less stressful; I now see it as a necessity for the type of boating I do.
 
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