AUS vs NZ

Don't want to start a flame war , like single vs twin , but for a 70 year young boater thinking of departing the USA , and relocating down under.

What is the opinion of those that live there?

I lived thru the killings and riots of the 60-70 era , and am getting tired of the game.

FF,
It's a no brainer.
Aus of course.
NZ is a lovely country , cheaper to live in than Aus, someplaces are beautiful than Aus.
But why do a big %age of Kiwis move over to Aus to live and work?
Because ther is more jobs , more room to move more varied scenery from the Great Barrier Reef to the dry central deserts.
Better fishing all round but they do have great trout fishing , if that is what you want to do.
They beat us at rugby(Union the proper game) but we are leading the super 15 this year. We flog them at everything else, most of the time
We have far better cruising grounds, they will say differently.
Had to get in first before a Kiwi got on line.
Anyhow this should stir the nest.
Cheers
Benn

PS more boats to buy and look at in Aus , but you can always bring your own as they are not as cheap down here as they are in the US

Having relocated to Aus from Canada in 1982, I've loved it. (not that I didn't love beautiful BC as well). I've visited New Zealand quite a bit, and life is also very good there. The economy is a little slower, but if your no longer chasing the dollars it doesn't matter. Your dollar would go further in NZ. The boating is magical in either country. But the Kiwi's don't play the best sport in the world - Aussie Rules Football.
-And Australian women are better looking.

Living down here may be a shock though. Both NZ and Australia make the Left Coast of the US seem like Tea Party country. Except maybe for Queensland.

Maybe you should leave FL Fred. Too many bugs, hurricanes, gators and no mountains. Also, watch less news, the entire world is now screwed up since we have 24/7 light speed data from anywhere spreading the bad and not the good.

Back to your question though, having been to both, the right place in NZ beats the wrong place in Australia and vice versa. Both will have about 40% higher living and tax costs than the US. If you don't like liberals, read about Australia politics.

sunchaser said:

Maybe you should leave FL Fred. Too many bugs, hurricanes, gators and no mountains.

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Bingo! Life is great out here (with an ocean view) or in the mountains of Arizona. No need to go down under in the twilight of your years. Besides, once you begin to understand the Aussie language, you will be almost ready for the "box."

Well, it's like buying a boat, try before you buy.

Like Ben says, NZ is beautiful, especially the South Island, sparsely inhabited, cool with genuine fjords, you would need to like lamb and rugby though(and rain).Oz physically is a far bigger country, again not that many people. it's about the same size as continental USA with about 23 million people.Oz is more expensive than NZ in most things.

We(Oz) have a wide variety of climates from desert to tropical,to cool wet climates, with about everything in between.For a bloke 70 years young, both countries have good health care systems, which includes universal health care, backed up by a private system if you choose.

Beer, Hmmm, I think we are better, well not xxxx(Queensland stuff), both countries make great wine.Maybe from your post what's also important is that we are both pretty laid back, or we like to think we are.

Politics, not much to choose, both have pretty stable governments, sometimes the right gets in , then we tend to get sick of them and put the other mob in.Right now we are just about to throw the other mob out and put the conservatives in again, and so it goes, at the moment neither side is very popular.I think it would be fair to say that the people of both countries are pretty conservative. We tend to go for evolution than revolution.

Although Oz was settled by the English, in the early days as a penal colony,the majority now do not descend from Anglo Saxon stock. After WW 2 , there was a huge influx of Italian and Greeks, in the seventies Vietnamese and Cambodians, we are a mixed lot.

Inland seas like Puget Sound or Chesapeake Bay? Looks like you slip your lines and you're right out at sea (ocean).

Sounds like you've got control of the gun problem and the health care sounds good too. What about national debt? What percentage of GNP do you spend on national defense? And what's more expensive down there besides boats. A clever man like our friend in Brazil should be able to build boats. When the liberals get in power do you have too much socialism and too much government?

manyboats said:

Sounds like you've got control of the gun problem....

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Oh, they have control of that alright! They were taken away from them!

NZ is a amazing place.. A lot the country looks like the Pacific Northwest. We lived there in 1994 and truly love it.. amazingly resourceful and friendly people. The cost to live there is higher than the US, medicine is socialized but mostly a bit sub par by our care standards. We had the ability to stay as the Admiral was actively pursued to stay and work there permanently.
When it was all said and done we got home sick for the USA and came home. Most Kiwi's we ever talked about it with had a desire to leave NZ and come to the good ole USA... go figure.
High cost of living, bizarre politics, wacko people are not limited to the USA.. NZ and AUS have their fair share.

There are places in this country that are amazing places to live and most of the "issues" are pretty moderate.

Personally.. I travel a lot to foreign countries and I Always come home
I love the US for all the diversity.
HOLLYWOOD

hollywood8118 said:

When it was all said and done we got home sick for the USA and came home.
There are places in this country that are amazing places to live and most of the "issues" are pretty moderate.

Personally.. I travel a lot to foreign countries and I Always come home
I love the US for all the diversity.
HOLLYWOOD

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Amen, brother!

USA = Diversity

Yes very true but any country as big as the US w a lot of immigrants (almost all of us) is bound to have diversity both people wise and geographically. In some ways I'm amazed how similar we are. A friend of mine that does a lot of traveling says it's easy to pic out Americans among foreigners ..... They are the loudest.

Walt,
That's whatI said ..... Solved that problem.

Fred sounds to me like Texas would be a good fit. We're gonna land cruise the coastal area next year after we finish some business in San Antonio. Thinking about relocating there in retirement.

California climate is great if ya turn off the news.

A lot of you guys are right, no matter what, nowhere else is as good as home even if it is going down hill.
I have travelled the world for the last 40+ years, married and lived in the USA for about 10 years ( in the 70s ) yeah I can remember some of it.

But I won't go back except to Florida to fly fish for giant Tarpon some time in the next couple of years.
My ex wife of some 30 years lives in Aus and won't go back to the US except to visit family.
As some guys say it is more expensive to live over here but then our wages are higher, commenserate with our taxes but I don't think our tax system is as confusing.
Don't worry about the gun laws if you want to own a rifle then you join a gun club or prove you have a valid reason,( Hunting everyone wants to shoot a Roo or a pig ) , pass a background check and have a gun safe in your home , done deal.
Many boats , being the loudest can be a challenge if there are any Aussies about especially if it is also linked with beer.

Re national debt in 2008 it was 9.7% but after the crash it sored went up to about 23% but is now down to 20.5% and falling.
Interest rates are low but you can still get about 4.5% on deposits and like the USA the market is on the rise but ours hasn't gained as much as the USA.

All thinngs considered every place has its positives and negatives but I do feel considerably safer living in Aus and I don't have a security problem with my dwelling or boat. Still in the no lockup era.
Cheers
Benn

Let`s put aside that both countries suggest males of the other have unusual relationships with sheep.
More NZers move to Australia to live, permanently or temporarily, than the other way around.
NZ has a lower population load, thus it`s natural beauty,of which there is plenty, is well preserved. The South island has alpine scenery to rival anywhere and the north island "Bay of Islands" offers stunning boating.
Economically Australia is the stronger, but the high AUD, and plateauing or downward trend in mining, and reduced business profitability is blowing a hole in the budget, as announced today. For reasons of economic management and internal political issues a return to conservative government is likely this September. NZ has already done so.
Australia has problems with increasingly frequent irregular arrivals of small boats containing asylum seekers. Management of this is a major political issue.(The nature of some vessels might change views of what constitutes passagemaker ability)
NZ recently decided to introduce "marriage equality". Australia has not, as yet.
While firearms availability was further restricted after a massacre in Tasmania years back,the criminal classes have no trouble obtaining arms, there have been many shootings in parts of south western Sydney,often between rival groups.Most Australians support and favor gun control.
In fairness Australia is generally a peaceful relaxed place with pleasant temperate climate, though Tasmania can get pretty cold. Australia is the "home of the long weekend". Employees get 4 weeks annual leave and other valuable benefits.
There are inland waterways on the east coast, both in NSW and Victoria states, but much boating is in harbor, and coastal. Going outside Sydney Harbor does not seem as significant as "going out the Gate" in SF.
Boats here cost much more than the equivalent in USA, it could be worth bringing yours with you, people import US boats to resell.
This is all very general. I`m sure any of us will answer anything more specific.

Thank's so much Ben and Bruce,

One of the reasons I'm socializing on the computer is to become more worldly. Most of us Americans live in relative isolation speaking only one language and traveling mostly in the US. I watch BBC news to get some scope and have FB friends from around the globe.

Your words here give me some more scope of the world and it's varied people. Thanks both of you.

I might chip in again later, but lunch break is over. Basically no great disagreement with anything said thus far, so what would help FF, is for you to come back with a brief outline of the kind of life you want to live in your retirement, and your personal interests, hobbies, activities, you love doing, etc, other than boating, which I guess is a given...then, having lived in both countries for 25 yrs plus, I could add a few thoughts.

Thanks Eric. You realize how isolated Australia is when you spend 24 hours on a plane to Europe, or 14 to SF or LA. NYC adds more. Australians travel a lot,especially with the $ high, it can be cheaper holidaying at a beach resort in Asia, than in OZ.
Although I lived all my life in Sydney Australia I have affection for NZ, having bicycled, and road toured, extensively in the south island of NZ, and visited the more temperate north isl. Every bend in the road brings another stunning view. There are several large accessible glaciers. Wine and food are great. I`ve heard of people just going to NZ, missing Oz altogether, can`t say I approve of that. Their well reputed airline, Air New Zealand, services USA, and makes profits.

Some acquaintances of mine are currently in the process of immigrating to NZ. Not as easy as one would think. They mentioned no specific roadblocks, they only commented to me on the time commitment is all.

Both will have about 40% higher living and tax costs than the US.


OOOCH! putting it together were over 50% now!
Add 40% on top of that and we will be living in a cardboard box.

How hard is immigration and a NZ passport?

FF, if you are serious, he best place to clarify those issues is to contact the NZ Consulate nearest you. Can't help you re where that would be, but there are some in the US. Of course a lot of that sort of info in general terms is available on their web-sites via good old Gargle.
The really important thing is whether you would be able to exist financially as probably the NZ Pension or National Super, as they used to call it and maybe still do, would probably not be available to you - heck, I'm not sure if even I would qualify now I have been here in Oz for 25 yrs, but I was 42 when I left there, so probably I would, at least in part. The same would apply to the Aussie pension.
The other main issue, assuming there is no other bar to you moving there, (or here), is health cover, and how that would play out, and that is where direct contact might help clarify. You would probably have to privately insure, but you are used to that anyway I guess. We have a Medicare, but if you are eligible for that over there, I am not sure if there is reciprocity with the US version here like there is for the UK, and a few other countries. Even NZers don't get immediate access to Oz Medicare now if new arrivals. A lot has changed just in the time I've been here.

Then there is the question of whether it is ever wise to uproot yourself at this time of life and leave everything familiar, and everyone you know, family as well, (including grandkids), and retire to a totally new place, where you know no-one, even if it is paradise in some eyes.

If however, in spite of all obstacles, you wanted to go ahead, then the choice would come down to what you hoped to gain. What your really keen interests are, and your main love-to-do's in life. Both countries have lovely cruising grounds, but Oz is warmer, but experiences more extremes of weather, NZ cooler, but not as cold as a lot of the US, and has amazing lakes. Aussie has the Whitsundays, Sydney Harbour, Pittwater, Myall and Gippsland Lakes, and NZ the Bay of Islands, Hauraki Gulf, Lake Taupo and a host of beautiful South Island lakes. However, if I could wave a magic wand, the place I would like to be transported to, with my boat would be either the Marlborough Sounds near Picton, or the Patersons Inlet on Stewart Island. That place is a boating paradise, and even though at the foot of the South Island, it is warmed by currents, so that it is more temperate than the southern part of the South Island. It was featurd in a PMM issue of a year or so ago by the family traipsing the world in their Nordhavn - can't remember the name of boat or family sorry, but it is a beautiful and largely unspoiled place.
What has got you even considering this? I'm intrigued.
However, for your information....

MARINE LIFE

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...kDKXeigeypYCoAQ&ved=0CGwQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=607

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...fLanniAf8tYHYAw&ved=0CHAQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=607

Bay of Islands Maps - Maps of Bay of Islands New Zealand

Things to see and do in Picton, New Zealand

Picton Marlborough Sounds New Zealand - Information, Guides, Accomodation

Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc Wine New Zealand | Marlborough, New Zealand

Kia Ora, welcome to | Stewart Island - Island of tranquility

Stewart Island New Zealand Travel ~ Stewart Island NZ Information

https://www.realjourneys.co.nz/en/destinations/stewart-island/

But seriously, the boring stuff at the top is still the most important to consider...changing countries does cost, I can vouch for that....

Peter,
You forgot the Kimberlies the most supreme wilderness cruising ground in the South Pacific and all the coast line between there and the Whitsundays.

Peter B said:

Then there is the question of whether it is ever wise to uproot yourself at this time of life and leave everything familiar, and everyone you know, family as well, (including grandkids), and retire to a totally new place, where you know no-one, even if it is paradise in some eyes.

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Those are the important considerations. (IMO) Everything else is just "fly stuff". (to quote a famous mariner on this forum)

"The grass is always greener someplace else until you have to cut it."

It's not clear to me as to why you're considering NZ or Oz but given the incredible diversity of this country, it sounds more like "wonder lust" than a real desire to relocate.

Fess up, FF! What's driving this?

SeaHorse II said:

Fess up, FF! What's driving this?

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Looks like this is headed toward OTDE.

FF, check out Belize. Not as far away. English is the official language. Legal system based on English common law. Great water and forests.

Where is Belize Bill when we need him?

Moonstruck said:

Where is Belize Bill when we need him?

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Last I remember him posting he was trying to figure a way to raise sunken treasure. Maybe he did and is to rich for us po folks anymore?

We spent 20 months in OZ cruising between Southport and got as far as Darwin but stayed mostly around Moreton Bay and Brisbane. It was great to the point that we looked at living there. Lena interviewed for an engineering position even. The deal killer was travel back and forth to the states. From the time we left my moms house, (VT at the time) till we stepped foot back on our boat at Gold Coast City Marina, was 41 hours of non stop travel. At the time we had 3 aging parents. So we said no. OZ did offer a retirement visa which was good for 4 years, if you were over 55, had finical resources, in good health and bought your own medical insurance.

We also looked at NZ. The residency requirements were based on a point system. Education and skills added points. If you invested in the country that also added points. After 45 years of age points were deducted. For us to get our actual residency would have taken about 2 years and investing dollars. Still, NZ and it's people are great. The weather is almost like the PNW.

I'll second Belize. Been there a few times and if I was in the position to retire would seriously consider it. FF could make it there in his Navy launch.

FF, the result of our salary levels and employee benefits is high prices and living costs. Australia does not build enough dwellings for the increasing population, which = high house prices and rents, chasing scarce accommodations. Can`t speak for NZ on this.
In NZ I had the privilege of an overnight on a small (10 pax) commercial cruise boat on Doubtful Sound in the south west of the south island. Remote, misty, magical, hard to access, well worth it.
I too would have big reservations in senior years of the upheaval of changing countries. Save for "asylum seekers" (some of whom are really economic migrants) OZ is fairly tough on immigration, lots of health checks, and I think financial requirements. Skills can be important, especially if we have a staffing need in a particular area.
Interestingly, we recently had a boatload from Sri Lanka land at Geraldton on the Aust.west coast, saying their real destination was NZ. Authorities had no knowledge of them until they entered port! Most were sent straight back, I`d have considered refueling/re-provisioning and providing charts and a GPS to continue to NZ.

Tidahapah said:

Peter,
You forgot the Kimberlies the most supreme wilderness cruising ground in the South Pacific and all the coast line between there and the Whitsundays.

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Sorry Benn, but it's a fricking big country, and I sort of think of WA, (and so do many Aussies) as being almost another country. I got there once - 7 hr flight - liked it except for the flies....seeing people wearing bee-keeper type hats during the day is not a good sign to me...
Also, bearing in mind the remoteness of the Kimberlies, not many Aussies ever get to see it, let alone live in reachable distance, so I felt it reasonable to leave them out. I might add I would love to get there, and on the bucket list is to do the cruise there on the True North, Coral Princess, or one of the others that go there.
http://kimberleycruises.com/

Thanks for the info, we will visit.

The bride needs to find a town with a good weavers group.

"Expensive housing" , is very open.

What would $200K US get in a condo in NZ?

FF said:

The bride needs to find a town with a good weavers group.
"Expensive housing" , is very open.What would $200K US get in a condo in NZ?

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You need an NZ response on housing costs there. Average condo (we call a strata title unit) in Aust costs well above that. Our housing prices are high by any standard. I think prices are lower in NZ, but take care in Christchurch, the southern main city, it has been damaged by earthquake activity and parts will not be rebuilt. There are active volcanoes and fault lines in NZ. Pricing may vary greatly between city and provincial areas, it does here.
I am sure there are craft enthusiasts in NZ, especially the South isl. Plenty of wool for weaving.
One thing which escaped mention is the overall good relations between Aust. and NZ. For example, we honor our armed forces on ANZAC (Australian and New Zealand Army Corps) Day, on April 25, which originally commemorated the combined fighting at Gallipoli in Turkey by soldiers of both countries and, at least in Australia, now honors the armed forces of all wars, combat, and currently serving. Gallipoli was a major defeat for us, but it gave rise to the Anzac fighting spirit. An Anzac Day commemoration service is held at Gallipoli each year, attended by both Turks and Aussies, and no doubt New Zealanders.