What would you do?

It's not unknown for people to pretend to be broken down and then when someone comes to their aid, they are robbed or worse.

This was SOP ,to get a delivery boat , before drugs were shipped in sealand boxes .

Tiku(post 36 & 39) I'm with you. I have been around boats most of my life, and that was what my grandfather hammered into us. Perhaps a 'boatie' then was a different breed to now.

Andy G said:

Tiku(post 36 & 39) I'm with you. I have been around boats most of my life, and that was what my grandfather hammered into us. Perhaps a 'boatie' then was a different breed to now.

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I think (and hope) the "boatie" hasn't changed. How could someone pass by a boater who is waving at you and appears to need help? We couldn't and won't. Maybe we're too trusting?

We were off the Pacific Coast of Panama and a local boat flagged us down. Their engine wouldn't start and they asked us for a tow. About 20 minutes later, the Navy (drug police) show up. After a quick check, on we all go. In the last picture. The guys mechanic shows up, contacted via cell phone and everyone is happy.

We gave gasoline to a boat off the coast of Mexico one year so they could get home. Later that night they found our boat and dropped off a bunch of lobsters. No way we could pass by a disabled boat. I think what goes around, comes around?

AusCan said:

The only time I would consider refusing would be if conditions were such that there was a high chance of putting additional lives at risk. In those situations, I'd call for additional assistance and stand by if needed to take those onboard if they were at risk.
Or if someone was blind drunk but not in immediate risk. (above would apply anyway)

Law suits wouldn't even cross my mind. Perhaps I am just naive?

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Nope- far from it!

rwidman said:

A long time ago I tried to call for a tow for some guys in a broken down boat. SeaTow was reluctant to come out without talking to the actual operator of the broken down boat (makes sense to me) and while I was on the radio they got the engine started and took off without a word to me.

Just like towing insurance (in my area, at least), nobody should be out in a boat without a VHF transceiver. They should call for help themselves.

Two other points:

1) It's not unknown for people to pretend to be broken down and then when someone comes to their aid, they are robbed or worse.

2) I'm not typically just riding around in circles on the water, I have a destination and a schedule (more or less). Fooling around towing someone could take two or three hours out of my day and my planned progress. As I posted above, at least in my area, it's irresponsible to be out on the water without a VHF and towing insurance. They should be able to be towed home by a professional with the proper equipment and training without intruding into my day. Tow them and they will expect it the next time. If I boated in an area where professional towing was not available, I might react differently.

If someone had a true medical emergency, that would be a different story. I would see what I could do but of course seven knots is not good for emergency transport.

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Agreed- good points. We have no problem modifying our schedule for a vessel in distress- heck, it's boating, and keeping schedules loose and flexible is part of the game!

In all my years of boating in SoCal, and many trips down the Baja peninsula, I've never worried about piracy, or someone needing assistance being a red herring. I'll continue to not worry about it.......

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/view_news.aspx?NewsID=4167......

It’s a rare occurrence that one boater would see another in a jam offshore and not stop to help. But in some instances, the help you render could be the wrong kind. Let’s take the subject of towing, for example. Most recreational powerboats are not designed to be tow boats, nor have their owners, in most cases, been educated on safe towing procedures. Towing another boat is fraught with risks, including the potential for serious injury, damage to the boat needing help or to tow boat, to say nothing of the possibility of resulting litigation. Yet, it is your obligation to help a fellow boater in distress. What to do? Here is our recommendation about how to do your duty and stay out of trouble at the same time.

.......

Average Insurance Claim
Beyond all the technical aspects of towing, Allstate Insurance reports that boats damaged during Good Sam tows incur a minimum of $550 in damage, on average. Additionally, insurance carriers may void the policies of Good Sam towers who damage their (or the disabled) boat or cause harm by engaging in risky endeavors, which a tow is considered to be. Get out your policy and check, or call your insurance agent.

Larry M said:

I think (and hope) the "boatie" hasn't changed. How could someone pass by a boater who is waving at you and appears to need help? We couldn't and won't. Maybe we're too trusting?

We were off the Pacific Coast of Panama and a local boat flagged us down. Their engine wouldn't start and they asked us for a tow. About 20 minutes later, the Navy (drug police) show up. After a quick check, on we all go. In the last picture. The guys mechanic shows up, contacted via cell phone and everyone is happy.

We gave gasoline to a boat off the coast of Mexico one year so they could get home. Later that night they found our boat and dropped off a bunch of lobsters. No way we could pass by a disabled boat. I think what goes around, comes around?

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Larry,

It's a good thing that your experience was not the same as what FF described. You sir are a class act. The pics are great - if you look at the faces, they go from looking sad (pic#1) to happy (pic#3). Thank you.

JAT said:

Not having a towing bridle.... I would probably stay close by to help if they broke down. A side tie of a sailboat with our freeboard would be rough...and without a lot of fenders would damage us probably....

I'd certainly stay close by to help if I could...

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Don't you have a anchor bridle? That is what I use to tow with, since we don't anchor!

psneeld said:

To Tow, or, Not to Tow | BoatTEST.com......

It’s a rare occurrence that one boater would see another in a jam offshore and not stop to help. But in some instances, the help you render could be the wrong kind. Let’s take the subject of towing, for example. Most recreational powerboats are not designed to be tow boats, nor have their owners, in most cases, been educated on safe towing procedures. Towing another boat is fraught with risks, including the potential for serious injury, damage to the boat needing help or to tow boat, to say nothing of the possibility of resulting litigation. Yet, it is your obligation to help a fellow boater in distress. What to do? Here is our recommendation about how to do your duty and stay out of trouble at the same time.

.......

Average Insurance Claim
Beyond all the technical aspects of towing, Allstate Insurance reports that boats damaged during Good Sam tows incur a minimum of $550 in damage, on average. Additionally, insurance carriers may void the policies of Good Sam towers who damage their (or the disabled) boat or cause harm by engaging in risky endeavors, which a tow is considered to be. Get out your policy and check, or call your insurance agent.

Click to expand...

Allstate is a Boat Form policy, and does not cover for a whole host of maritime related incidents (Named Perils only). I find it interesting that BoatTest would not go to a true marine insurer (All Risk policy) for statistics or information relating to vessel insurance.

No carrier I know of (marine specialty insurance) would void coverage based on rendering assistance- doing so would violate the law. I checked a few of our carriers:

ACE Recreation Marine:

TOWING EXCLUSION:
a. We do not provide coverage for loss or damage resulting from the Insured Vessel as shown on the Declarations Page towing any other vessel, excepting:
i. a Dinghy/Tender owned by you;
ii. non-owned vessels in distress or unintentionally disabled, provided there is no consideration for your services;
iii. the Insured Vessel towing another vessel owned by you while navigating inland waters, rivers or the Great Lakes, subject to the Navigation Warranty attached to this policy.
b. We do not provide coverage for loss or damage to the Insured Vessel while it is being towed,
excepting:
i. when the purpose of such a tow is an attempt to aid the Insured Vessel while it is in distress or
unintentionally disabled;
ii. when another vessel owned by you is towing the Insured Vessel while navigating inland waters, rivers or the Great Lakes, subject to the Navigation Warranty attached to this policy.

Markel American: no exclusions/conditions.

Travelers/Travelers Luxury Yacht: no exclusions/conditions.

International Marine Underwriters/One Beacon: no exclusions/conditions.

Seaworthy: No exclusions/conditions.

Chartis: no exclusions/conditions.

To the OP, I think you did all you could and offered, but were turned down, the appropriate level of assistance. Posting here for others' opinions shows you are concerned with doing the right thing. Well done. Wish we had more real boaters like you.

Those boaters who are willing to render aid to others in peril will accept the risks that come with rendering aid and do it for the right reasons...not self-aggrandizement. I have and will continue to assist when needed. I have never been sued, but have learned new skills and made new friends in the process.

Those who are less inclined to assist others in peril can always rationalize it with excuses for self-injury or financial loss. The descriptions of the risks posted here sound like great exaggerations of current conditions in the USA. IMO, if towing insurance is available to you for $150 and there are assist boats in the vicinity to provide assistance, then it's a wise purchase. But if it's not available to you, why in the world would you purchase it? It doesn't make sense to me, but some folks never consider other situations that differ from their own.

I seriously doubt any rational discussion here will change the minds of those wannabe boaters who refuse to help others, are just in it for themselves or just post here to appear larger than life. Some here have even admitted their posts here are just a game to them...a project...and do so to evoke a reaction from others. I refuse to play in their games.

Ditto to the above comments! Well put.

Law and Disorder | Boating Magazine

The Law: According to our experts, boaters who think that the Good Samaritan approach will shield them from liability could be thinking wrong. "You won't find statutes," says Joan Wenner, a maritime lawyer from Orlando. "But there is case law in contributory negligence." In plain English: "People don't realize that if they try to help someone, they could be sued."
Different states have different rules, but even if your state has a Good Samaritan law on the books designed to indemnify people who come to the aid of others, it may not keep you out of trouble.
But wait, the federal rule says you are bound to help, so how can you be punished for doing so? Simple: If you mess up, you could open the books for civil action. "The general rule is that once you undertake a 'duty,' you have an obligation to carry out that duty properly," says Lennon. "Any negligence, real or perceived, in helping someone could create a civil liability for you for property damage or personal injury."
Adds Gerald McGill, a maritime attorney with the McGill Law Firm in Pensacola, "If you tow someone's boat over a sandbar, you may be liable."

FlyWright said:

..............Those who are less inclined to assist others in peril can always rationalize it with excuses for self-injury or financial loss. The descriptions of the risks posted here sound like great exaggerations of current conditions in the USA. IMO, if towing insurance is available to you for $150 and there are assist boats in the vicinity to provide assistance, then it's a wise purchase. But if it's not available to you, why in the world would you purchase it? It doesn't make sense to me, but some folks never consider other situations that differ from their own.

I seriously doubt any rational discussion here will change the minds of those wannabe boaters who refuse to help others, are just in it for themselves or just post here to appear larger than life. Some here have even admitted their posts here are just a game to them...a project...and do so to evoke a reaction from others. I refuse to play in their games.

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I think I know who is attempting to appear "larger than life" here. You could have posted your thoughts without the implied insult to those who feel or act differently than you.

Your language here is exactly what makes this forum so unfriendly at times.

I seldom agree with psneeld, but I have to agree with him on this issue. Boat towing should be left to trained professionals with the proper equipment unless there are no other options.

psneeld said:

Law and Disorder | Boating Magazine

The Law: According to our experts, boaters who think that the Good Samaritan approach will shield them from liability could be thinking wrong. "You won't find statutes," says Joan Wenner, a maritime lawyer from Orlando. "But there is case law in contributory negligence." In plain English: "People don't realize that if they try to help someone, they could be sued."
Different states have different rules, but even if your state has a Good Samaritan law on the books designed to indemnify people who come to the aid of others, it may not keep you out of trouble.
But wait, the federal rule says you are bound to help, so how can you be punished for doing so? Simple: If you mess up, you could open the books for civil action. "The general rule is that once you undertake a 'duty,' you have an obligation to carry out that duty properly," says Lennon. "Any negligence, real or perceived, in helping someone could create a civil liability for you for property damage or personal injury."
Adds Gerald McGill, a maritime attorney with the McGill Law Firm in Pensacola, "If you tow someone's boat over a sandbar, you may be liable."

Click to expand...

Any case law to support the opinions of the lawyers?

Like insurance, the "what if" scenario is part of the legal system. However, the wording of admiralty law and Federal law present a "high legal hurdle" to overcome for civil or criminal lawsuits.

http://www.liboatingworld.com/archive/2007/07/LIBW/LIBW_22.pdf

psneeld said:

http://www.liboatingworld.com/archive/2007/07/LIBW/LIBW_22.pdf

"As a practical matter, this means that if the
rescuer puts the crew in any greater peril than they
were already in, and injury ensues, liability may be​

imposed."

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Read the next paragraph- context is everything:

"For example, had Neville not thrown a life ring to the Valdez family, a court may find this omission to be wrong. But, it would unlikely lead to any liability because the test is whether that failure put the family in any greater peril than they were already in. Under this test, liability will only be imposed in a maritime rescue situation where the rescuer, through lack of due care, has worsened the position of the victim."

And this falls in line with Title 46, subs 2303, of the US Code.

Anything I can do to help and ensure others needing help get help!

Like the OP made effort to do.

Even if that means being a nosey neighbor!

Towing a fellow pleasure boater on my level is not brain surgery, never has been and aint today!

If that is not within your skill set no biggy, is what it is, you simply decline.

My fear is when people stop helping one and another. Not a fear of trying to help!

The problem is rumors of lawsuits are worse than reality. Reality is I know nobody who after giving a good faith effort to assist someone, actually be sued by anyone. Let alone a successful lawsuit.

Urban legend gives into facts to the point that otherwise helpful folks refuse to help based upon perceived risk of legal action that never materializes.

CPseudonym said:

The problem is rumors of lawsuits are worse than reality. Reality is I know nobody who after giving a good faith effort to assist someone, actually be sued by anyone. Let alone a successful lawsuit.

Urban legend gives into facts to the point that otherwise helpful folks refuse to help based upon perceived risk of legal action that never materializes.

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Yup.

OFB said:

............Towing a fellow pleasure boater on my level is not brain surgery, never has been and aint today!

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Perhaps it's not, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong with an untrained, unequipped person attempting to tow another boat.

My slip is adjacent to a well used public boat ramp so I see a lot of sights and often, these are amateurs towing boats. I cringe when I see some of the stupidity. Fortunately, as far as I know, only two people have died on the water around here since I first got my slip.

CPseudonym said:

Reality is I know nobody who after giving a good faith effort to assist someone, actually be sued by anyone. Let alone a successful lawsuit.

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Unfortunately I do, although the incident had nothing to do with boating. The person providing the assistance was later sued, the plaintiff won, and the damages were pretty staggering to the point where it significantly altered my acquaintance's life in a way from which he and his family are still trying to recover many years later.

Perhaps it is the direct knowledge of this example that has influenced my unwillingness to render assistance in anything other than the most dire circumstances.

Well I for one, having watched a 14 year old drown in the water 30 feet from where I was standing and unable to assist will never again leave someone in danger regardless of the outcome. 30 years later and still full of guilt. I will take any steps needed to see that people in harms way will get a helping hand from this skipper!

Marin said:

Perhaps it is the direct knowledge of this example that has influenced my unwillingness to render assistance in anything other than the most dire circumstances.

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That very well may explain the situation for you Marin. With all due respect to your friends perhaps something extraordinary took place to sway the opinion of the jury? Either way it stinks just the same.

My experience has been quite the opposite. I've rendered assistance both on and off road dozens of times to stranded motorists. Be it ladies with flat tires on a dark highway at night, especially before the prevalent usage of cell phones today. Also off road at 4 wheel drive locations, folks stranded with stuck or broken vehicles. Some of those incidents included injured parties too. Hunting trips in the boonies and such as well.

Never once have I been anything but thanked profusely for the assistance I've rendered. I also never tried any super-human efforts at things I had no business trying to accomplish either. There is a difference between approaching a situation you have no competence in nor business trying, and lending someone a hand with a rather mundane task that they are otherwise not equipped to perform on their own.

Would I assist someone on the water? Yes, but only after taking precautions and exhausting other options first. I'd also not tow anyone at an insane speed with a piece of dental floss for a tow rope. S.W.L. ratings on ropes and slings are there for a reason and I understand thoroughly the parameters they are tested under. Do I have an assistance policy of my own? Yes, bought it the day I bought the boat. Thank goodness assistance from a contractor that provides those services is available in my area.

I know there are instances where folks may possibly be sued for otherwise well intentioned things. I just have chosen to live my life treating others with dignity and respect, giving them the benefit of the doubt to do what is right. I would prefer my actions to be judged by a jury of 12 than live with regret for not attempting to assist when I know I could. So far it has worked well and oddly on the few occasions I've needed assistance it has worked well for me.

Sorry jukesy, just saw your post.

Pau Hana said:

Read the next paragraph- context is everything:

"For example, had Neville not thrown a life ring to the Valdez family, a court may find this omission to be wrong. But, it would unlikely lead to any liability because the test is whether that failure put the family in any greater peril than they were already in. Under this test, liability will only be imposed in a maritime rescue situation where the rescuer, through lack of due care, has worsened the position of the victim."

And this falls in line with Title 46, subs 2303, of the US Code.

Click to expand...

.
..............................................................

^^^Cherrypicking to make a point is poor form: Again, context is key.

The next paragraph:

"It is understood that rescues do not always succeed, despite the efforts of those who give assistance. Courts will rarely second guess one who voluntarily gives aid under the dangerous conditions of the sea “under the bright light cast by . . . hindsight.” Fondow v. Unites States, 112 F. Supp.2d 119; Korpi v. Unites States, 961 F. Supp. 1335 (holding that a “rescue attempt must be considered in the light of the
circumstances that faced the rescuers when they acted and not with the wisdom of an ‘armchair admiral’ after the fact.”"

Case law. It all boils down to case law that supports the application of the law. The article is supposition on a case and what MAY have happened. The 2 above examples are case law of what DID happen. Big difference.

Look we can agree, or agree to disagree- I'm good either way. But I've not been able to find a single instance where the party providing assistance has been found negligent or successfully litigated against for rendering said assistance- civil or criminal. I've discussed with with underwriters and claims personnel of the various companies we represent, so I have a better understanding of the material. Do you know of any case law pertaining to this?

Not 1 instance of the maritime Good Sam being successfully sued.

CPseudonym said:

The problem is rumors of lawsuits are worse than reality. Reality is I know nobody who after giving a good faith effort to assist someone, actually be sued by anyone. Let alone a successful lawsuit.

Urban legend gives into facts to the point that otherwise helpful folks refuse to help based upon perceived risk of legal action that never materializes.

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_(litigation)

Basis
A settlement, as well as dealing with the dispute between the parties is a contract between those parties, and is one possible (and common) result when parties sue (or contemplate so doing) each other in civil proceedings. The plaintiff(s) and defendant(s) identified in the lawsuit can end the dispute between themselves without a trial.[1]

Wow! Glad I boat where I do where every other boater isn't either a drug smuggler or potential tort case.

Northern Spy said:

Wow! Glad I boat where I do where every other boater isn't either a drug smuggler or potential tort case.

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Don't let those smugglers and sue-happy boaters dissuade from boating in our waters. There are antidotes to them. For the smugglers - pack heat, an assault rifle is preferred (don't worry as many boaters here are armed like you won't believe). For the sue-happy folks that you might have to tow - well, if you damage their boat and they seem like the sue-happy types, you have that assault rifle.

I use Seatow

I can't believe some of you guys some times. Not willing to believe the practicing litigator when he explains how it works in reality, but instantly believe the rumor mongers who know nothing about the law but "have heard" how it applies.

As both a lawyer and a member of the RCM-SAR (used to be called the Coast Guard Auxiliary) I will continue to offer whatever assistance I am equipped to offer, including a tow, if it is prudent to do so and requested by someone in difficulty. Most recently I towed a 40 ft sailboat 20 miles from one of our YC outstations to my home marina (not his) as every other boat had already headed home and there was no other way for him to get home, in calm conditions. He and his wife and kids would otherwise have had to call a $ tow. With a bridle and keeping my speed down to his hull speed, all went well. I got home maybe an hour late, but he got home the same day.

beachbum29 said:

I use Seatow

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I suggested that way back. I use TowBoatUS, but either one will do. A simple tow can be $500. Pay $150 in advance and you pay no additional in the vast majority of cases.

I have a friend who has been towed home 40 miles by TowBoatUS on two separate occasions at no cost other than his membership fee.

On the other hand, I often hear these yahoos calling the Coast Guard because they are broken down. The CG refers them to one of the towing services but when they find out how much it will cost them, they decline and ask the CG to broadcast for someone to tow them for free.

If I can't afford $150 for towing insurance, my boat will stay in the slip.