Size. Does it matter?

dmain4 said:

Good point, Bob. Guess I'm most concerned about docking (though most marinas have dock hands I assume) and passing through locks since I've never operated anything over 20'. Most of the comments seem to say with training and planning it should be doable.

Dave

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Don't assume that most marinas will have dock hands, and especially not for your home berth. My experience is that docking assistance is generally available only during the summer cruising season.

Marin said:

We used to do it that way (neutral) but found that carrying idle-forward right on into the entrance to the slip gives us better steerage and better control over the boat and the wind/current. So we don't move the tranmissions to neutral until we're about halfway in at which point we go to opposing thrust ...

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My boat would be going too fast if I did not use neutral. I try to go slow so an unplanned collision with the dock won't damage either boat or dock.

Conrad said:

Don't assume that most marinas will have dock hands, and especially not for your home berth. My experience is that docking assistance is generally available only during the summer cruising season.

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You call us live a boards, we will be there.

I can not comment on hight and draft restiction, but I would not go over 50 Ft and 50 ton. 50 ton lifts are the most popular, and the bigger the slip the hard to find. I alway make reservation as you do not just show up and say, "We ae here!"

Current is the real enemy if you have several knots or more where you dock...worse than 15-20 knots of wind often...there's not much coasting to be done with current.

Single handling in strong currents you better be prepaared to pin the boat against a piling and leave it in gear ...and the scary part...leave the helm to get a line on...

If you plan on doing a lot of traveling as single-handed operator consider a metal boat. They are easier to touch up the paint and the hulls generally take more abuse with less damage. The fenders on a boat can work against you when are docking single handed. The three problems they present is you bounce off the dock, you have more of a gap at the dock, and they catch on things sometimes. I know it sounds crazy to dock with out fenders but in the right boat it is no big deal. I paint my sides every year for that all better look now. I have people and kids dock my boat all the time that are first timers. The boat is a single screw with an overall length of about 50ft they have very few problems docking it when I talk them through it. I do have the fenders out for this but I don't worry to much about the paint it is easily fixed. I have docked with no fenders out when single handed and conditions where awful and I needed to hit the dock and just stay there long enough to get a line on the dock. A metal boat make this option more forgiving, just something to consider if you are going to travel a lot.

markpierce said:

My boat would be going too fast if I did not use neutral. I try to go slow so an unplanned collision with the dock won't damage either boat or dock.

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We go about three and a half or so knots in forward at idle rpm (600). As far as unplanned collisions, that's why we have insurance.

I've seen too many boats here gliding along in neutral because the operator is afraid to carry any power and the wind or current or both take control of the boat and put it into some amazing (and sometimes quite damaging) situations. All preventable had the operator kept some speed on and a bit of thrust acting on the rudder(s).

Entering our marina our transmissions do not see neutral until the boat's bow is sliding into the slip.

Hi Bob, is it expensive to instal your bow truster?

Sergio "Alemao" Sztancsa, Sent from my iPhone using Trawler

Marin said:

We go about three and a half or so knots in forward at idle rpm (600). ...

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Same here (but my idle is 800 RPM). Nevertheless, haven't yet experienced the need to move so fast on the final approach. By the way, my deductible is $5000, equaling my annual maintenance budget.

Alemao said:

Hi Bob, is it expensive to instal your bow truster?

Sergio "Alemao" Sztancsa, Sent from my iPhone using Trawler

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The price will probably vary quite a bit from boat-to-boat and yard-to-yard. At a minimum you'll have to buy the thruster, fiberglass tube, wiring, and controls. Hard to access areas can drive up the cost (billable hours).

On my installation, electric thruster, I didn't install a separate battery and charger. Instead I have large cables that goes to the house bank. That saved a lot (money and maintenance). I don't regret that decision. If I use the thruster when I leave the dock, the batteries recharge while I'm underway. Coming into a dock, I'll have shore power to recharge. Obviously I don't need to use the thruster if I'm dropping the hook. So, using the thruster doesn't really affect my house battery capacity.

Expensive? I don't remember the exact cost, but I don't view it as expenseive relative to the benefits. It's one of the best additions I made to the boat. The new engine -- that was expensive!

My 24-volt thruster runs off the house batteries, and I don't perceive any problem.

Also, heavy hardware was used throughout. (Cleats, chocks, hand rails, samson post, etc.)...........SeaHorseII

Except for that thing hanging off your bowsprit...you know...that shiny nose bling, Bruce-labelled POC you call an anchor (and its swivel!).



P.S. BTW....Would you send it to me when you're done with it?

Marin said:

We go about three and a half or so knots in forward at idle rpm (600). As far as unplanned collisions, that's why we have insurance.
I've seen too many boats here gliding along in neutral because the operator is afraid to carry any power and the wind or current or both take control of the boat and put it into some amazing (and sometimes quite damaging) situations. All preventable had the operator kept some speed on and a bit of thrust acting on the rudder(s).
Entering our marina our transmissions do not see neutral until the boat's bow is sliding into the slip.

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Absolutely agree. Way back when we bought our first diesel cruiser, a Resort (cuddles) 35, and it was in charter most of the time, and we were relative powerboat novices, coming out of yachts, and had not had much experience docking it, before he warned me about anything else, the charter operator warned me about always having some way on and water moving over the rudder when coming in, and never putting it in neutral until about to move into reverse, so you have steerage. The same applies to our Clipper 34 now. If the mother is in neutral, there is virtually no steerage at docking speed.

FlyWright said:

Except for that thing hanging off your bowsprit...you know...that shiny nose bling, Bruce-labelled POC you call an anchor (and its swivel!).

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To label it a "Bruce" is a real slap in the face to "Force" fans everywhere.

FlyWright said:

P.S. BTW....Would you send it to me when you're done with it?

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Duly noted........

funangler said:

I do have the fenders out for this but I don't worry to much about the paint it is easily fixed. I have docked with no fenders out when single handed and conditions where awful and I needed to hit the dock and just stay there long enough to get a line on the dock. A metal boat make this option more forgiving, just something to consider if you are going to travel a lot.

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Having an old beater fiberglass boat confers many of the same benefits. At least for me it does. No spit-and-polish for the good ship Moon Dance.

Peter B said:

Absolutely agree. Way back when we bought our first diesel cruiser, a Resort (cuddles) 35, and it was in charter most of the time, and we were relative powerboat novices, coming out of yachts, and had not had much experience docking it, before he warned me about anything else, the charter operator warned me about always having some way on and water moving over the rudder when coming in, and never putting it in neutral until about to move into reverse, so you have steerage. The same applies to our Clipper 34 now. If the mother is in neutral, there is virtually no steerage at docking speed.

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I agree that forward thrust is usually necessary when turning into a berth but not that the berth be entered at 3.5 knots. Often will use the bow thruster for turning to avoid more forward thrust. (Talking of a single-screw boat here where there is no second propeller to counter forward thrust.)

markpierce said:

Often will use the bow thruster for turning to avoid more forward thrust.

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Never admit to using your bow thruster on this forum! Did you notice that I referred to using "back & fill" when turning toward the slip? (For practice only....Generally I use the thruster. )

SeaHorse II said:

Never admit to using your bow thruster on this forum! Did you notice that I referred to using "back & fill" when turning toward the slip? (For practice only....Generally I use the thruster. )

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I'll never use a thruster on my boat!!!

Because I don't have one

Thrusters? Thrusters? We don't need no stinkin' thrusters. We dock by braille.

Can't amortize the cost if it isn't used. Since they cost thousands of dollars each, I use thruster and horn when appropriate and don't feel guilty doing it.

No thrusters and I stern in & never move faster than I'am willing to bump the dock

Operated mid sized craft with through hull single screw in decades past.

Through hull twins since, currently have a Tollycraft.

Never felt need for thrusters on any boat.

Practice makes perfect!

Do really like (appreciate) twins for many, many reasons!

Art said:

Do really like (appreciate) twins for many, many reasons!

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A single-engine boat with thruster has the same number of propellers as a twin-engined boat without thruster.

markpierce said:

A single-engine boat with thruster has the same number of propellers as a twin-engined boat without thruster.

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Soooo


The Coot is a twin screw after all

I suppose the sails also make it either twin propulsion too? Or would it be a hybrid drive

markpierce said:

A single-engine boat with thruster has the same number of propellers as a twin-engined boat without thruster.

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Bingo, Mark! That's absolutely correct! Nice job counten up dem props... Now, if there were to be bow and stern thrusters in place then a single engine boat becomes tri-screw!

Soooo... If center-line single engine goes out, via drive line or otherwise, in open water the boat can go in circles, or push port/starboard straight-sideways, or when inside a dual finger slip bounce back and forth against the fenders - till thruster electric engines over heat or batteries go dead or both... that is!

Like the birthing woman exclaimed... OMG, Thank You For These Beautifully Useful TWINS!! I'm so happy to have Twins! Always one or the other for a back up to pull or push in the correct direction and be sure to get things done... Twins – Yeah Baby!!

There is a reason for tow-service insurance and anchors, so avoiding the acquisition and maintenance expense of an "extra" engine and drive train. I like the idea of a keel-protected shaft/propeller/rudder. Regardless, the boat of my dreams isn't offered in a twin-engined version.

Those sails might come in handy too.

SeaHorse II said:

To label it a "Bruce" is a real slap in the face to "Force" fans everywhere.

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That shining, stainless-steel anchor is like jewelry. That anchor would not be consistent with a "workboat" such as the Coot. Galvanized is more consistent with it.

BaltimoreLurker said:

Thrusters? Thrusters? We don't need no stinkin' thrusters. We dock by braille.

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I did too when my thruster was inoperable for several months.

markpierce said:

There is a reason for tow-service insurance and anchors, so avoiding the acquisition and maintenance expense of an "extra" engine and drive train. I like the idea of a keel-protected shaft/propeller/rudder. Regardless, the boat of my dreams isn't offered in a twin-engined version.

Those sails might come in handy too.

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I agree with a lot of what you say, Mark.

And, I do like to get a bit into “pullen legs” on some posts.

MOF - There is a way to design center keel boats also having port and starboard sub keels coming straight back; each sub keel having full skeg to rudder and shafts-to-props coming through the sub keels' centers in similar manner as the previous center keel shaft. Therefore... center keel would have less depth and reverse slanted angle allowing better rear edge water-flow-past design. The twin sub keels could also have low profile. Traverse stringers in bilge would create structural likeness to X-Box framed trucks for severe structural hull integrity. This design could be accomplished using any material and would be great for displacement and semi displacement hulls. Even planing hull design could have this tri-keel, twin screw design... However, due to some increased drag, it would probably not be too good on planing hulls that were powered to reach speeds much above 18 +/- knots. This design would provide twin screw maneuverability, redundancy-safety, and grounding protection for both sets of shaft/prop/rudder.

And, there is another important reason for this design regarding future propulsion methods on mid to large cruiser boats, i.e. trawlers. But, that's a whole other story in formation!

Art said:

And, I do like to get a bit into “pullen legs” on some posts.

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Ditto!