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Reiziger said:
I am the last one who say "please stop posting", I only say I will not respond anymore.

Still think you are better off buying a nice house then a +50 ft trawler.

My 2 centavos
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did you built your advise:
"Still think you are better off buying a nice house then a +50 ft trawler."

Just for exemple I have a friend ,he never saw the ocean but he built a 12 m lenght boat
(in Moutain !!)
Bring his boat to the sea, we navigate 5 nm together and he said : i like that , I will sailing to Mareseile (from Martigues) but finaly he don't stop go to Balearics, Canaries , Brazil, west Indies, Usa and come back to France ....:)

And during this time lot of "experienced" sailors who detains THE true stay .... in their berth:whistling:
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Walt,
I can appreciate your point. The reason that I need a big boat is because 85% of the time we will be docked at the marina as liveaboards. I want my family to be comfortable while living aboard at the dock. It won't take much for us, but a 20' boat certainly won't do it.
Click to expand...

I get clear picture of marine naiveté that is beyond comprehension! :facepalm:

Been fun though!! :popcorn:
 
GG-I will echo KSanders-keep us posted. Most of us have had the same or a similar dream. I do know folks, myself included, that started on larger boats. It can be done and has been done, many times. I appreciate what you are doing and do hope you get to the end of the road.

I also will reiterate what I told your Mom the other day-Get yourself down to Lauderdale ASAP and check out the 75'DeFever in person and with a good surveyor. IMHO-that is the best suited boat you have shown us, it is seriously for sale by a very motivated owner. You have looked at a lot of boats from a distance-it should be time to put feet on deck and get a true feel for what will work for you. As with most of us, when you walk on "The Boat", the boat will let you know it is the right one!

Good Luck
 
Lin & Larry Pardey have written a number of books about sailing. I just started reading Cruising in Seraffyn, their first book that’s been republished a number of times. When they started out for the first time, a number of people tried to discourage them, tried to get them not to go, but they spent a lifetime sailing and showed the way for may to follow.

I do not know why there is so much negativity on the Trawler Forum, but I think it might be because you are female. I do know that the American Sailing Association has classes only for women because of the interference in the learning process by husbands. I am amazed the way you have put up with all the negativity. For my own selfish reasons, I would really like to see you hang in there at least until the ice on the lakes melt and the snow is gone as it really has given me something to do here this winter watching your process unfold. I have pushed the idea of motor sailors some; however, I can see you really want to stay away from sails because it would be just another complication, and that’s true.

You have your female friend who has a 100 ton rating to help with your hands on learning. Eventually I imagine you will go for that rating yourself, which will be a lot more than most anyone here has. You could start with the theoretical classroom work, take the test, and then collect the time and experience needed to eventually get that license. I have learned a lot from formal classes. I just finished the American Sailing Association Coastal Navigation Course and can recommend it for the trawler owner. After all, the principles of coastal navigation are the same, whether it’s by sail or by power.
 
westwinds said:
After all, the principles of coastal navigation are the same, whether it’s by sail or by power.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. When under sail, coastal obstructions and narrow channels become much more challenging, and dangerous especially when the wind is controlling the direction you can safely steer. Or equally bad when the lack of wind puts you at the mercy of the currents. The best prayers for sailors are often those intended for the iron genoa and that extra 30 liters of fuel.

We have a friend who 3 years ago when doing an Anacortes to Glacier Bay round trip did not raise the sails once on his very nice 40' sloop. He for sure used the same navigation techniques as us MV guys.
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Ok, great, here is the document. Would love to hear what you think.
Click to expand...

I read it. A lot of jargon with the conclusion that 20 more hours of study are needed using the rationale mentioned in the jargon. He suggests the boat would most likely need ballast after the conclusion of the 20 hours of study. My take on this is the boat could be made stable with ballast.
 
A ocean crossing power boat is a tall order. One that provides space for 7 is taller yet. Since you think 85% will be in a slip at a marina, have you considered a houseboat on inland waters? I know it misses the allure of crossing an ocean (I have crossed many), but for 1/5 the purchase cost and less than 1/10 the running cost, you could have triple the square feet and a modern, late model build. If the itch to cross an ocean still needs scratching, the depreciation of ownership of a used house boat is much less, besides, look how much easier it would be to move aboard in a sheltered inland waterway. You have the Great Loop (if your not too beamy and have decent freeboard) and many lakes that cater to houseboats. Just maybe after a year or two of schlepping groceries from the market to your car, from the car to the marina cart, two person effort of loading onto the stern, then lugging it all to the galley and dry stores on your boat, you might think just that aspect alone is a bit much. If not and you still want bigger, ocean capable, then one of the above steps could be easier, and that would be using your deck crane to hoist up the grocery filled cart.
 
GG, if you look back at my post, 167 then at Ksanders 171, Longcourse62 @ 181. and THD's @ 183, I think you get the prevailing sentiment, so as suggested, don't give up, stay focused, and when the house sells, if that De Fever 75 is still not sold, making a tight offer might well get it for you, (or another if a better prospect presents itself in the meantime), and there be enough left over to make whatever additions/alterations that are needed, and you would have a terrific boat. If long offshore coastal trips don't find it a perfect ocean-going vessel, you could trade up.
 
ksanders said:
GG The nay Sayers will tell you to abandon your dreams. They will tell you to give up, buy a house with a white picket fence and take up gardening.

Let me tell you my story, because the naysayers said I couldn't do it.

23 years ago I was a single parent and I had a dream. My dream was moving To Alaska, buying an airplane, buying a cabin in the woods, and living an adventure.

Well I'm here to tell you, I raised my son and nobody died, I owned a floatplane, logged a thousand hours behind the wheel, own a cabin in the woods, and shot a really nice bear on my porch step.

In 2003 the naysayers told me I was going to die bringing a Bayliner all the way from Washington to Seattle. Well I'm here to tell you they were wrong, I brought my first Bayliner to Alaska and I lived, and I've lived through lots of other adventures since then.

What I'm getting at, is the adventures in life are the ones we make, and if you let people tell you you cannot do it, if you believe them, then you will have led less of a life.

So as far as I'm concerned, you just go right ahead asking your questions, continue living your dream, and eventually you will of had a better life than the naysayers
Click to expand...

Kevin,
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for sharing your story. It is inspiring.
 
THD said:
GG-I will echo KSanders-keep us posted. Most of us have had the same or a similar dream. I do know folks, myself included, that started on larger boats. It can be done and has been done, many times. I appreciate what you are doing and do hope you get to the end of the road.

I also will reiterate what I told your Mom the other day-Get yourself down to Lauderdale ASAP and check out the 75'DeFever in person and with a good surveyor. IMHO-that is the best suited boat you have shown us, it is seriously for sale by a very motivated owner. You have looked at a lot of boats from a distance-it should be time to put feet on deck and get a true feel for what will work for you. As with most of us, when you walk on "The Boat", the boat will let you know it is the right one!

Good Luck
Click to expand...

THD,
Thanks for the good advice. I think we have decided to try and stay under 66', but I will look at that Defever, just in case, when we go to Florida mid April.
 
westwinds said:
I read it. A lot of jargon with the conclusion that 20 more hours of study are needed using the rationale mentioned in the jargon. He suggests the boat would most likely need ballast after the conclusion of the 20 hours of study. My take on this is the boat could be made stable with ballast.
Click to expand...

Thanks for checking out that document for me. They were estimating $200k to finish the work, for a second, I was thinking again of considering that boat, but I have came back to my sense. It probably needs 4 times what they say and too many unknowns.
 
What do you guys think of the Florida Bay Coaster? I know that it is NOT an ocean-crossing boat, but the interior space is amazing as a Plan B boat. I have been watching one on Yachtworld for some time, but had outruled it because of the design, but otherwise it might be perfect. I am somewhat concerned that one sunk, but, I don't think it was a design flaw, just bad luck or something?

They also seem to hold their value fairly well, so in a few years when it's time to upgrade to transAtlantic, I might not lose ALL of my money.

Westwinds,
It has John Deere engines, with low horespower, so it should get great fuel economy, right?

2000 Florida Bay Coaster 60 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
 
deckofficer said:
A ocean crossing power boat is a tall order. One that provides space for 7 is taller yet. Since you think 85% will be in a slip at a marina, have you considered a houseboat on inland waters? I know it misses the allure of crossing an ocean (I have crossed many), but for 1/5 the purchase cost and less than 1/10 the running cost, you could have triple the square feet and a modern, late model build. If the itch to cross an ocean still needs scratching, the depreciation of ownership of a used house boat is much less, besides, look how much easier it would be to move aboard in a sheltered inland waterway. You have the Great Loop (if your not too beamy and have decent freeboard) and many lakes that cater to houseboats. Just maybe after a year or two of schlepping groceries from the market to your car, from the car to the marina cart, two person effort of loading onto the stern, then lugging it all to the galley and dry stores on your boat, you might think just that aspect alone is a bit much. If not and you still want bigger, ocean capable, then one of the above steps could be easier, and that would be using your deck crane to hoist up the grocery filled cart.
Click to expand...

Bob,
A houseboat :eek: Seriously :confused:
I thought you knew me better than that:lol:...
 
IslandEagle said:
This would be an excellent choice for you. Simple, stable, tough, well-designed, and easily maintained. The example you posted appears to be in great condition.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
Click to expand...

Wow Scott! I must admit, that response was a big surprise, especially coming from you....It MUST be a nice boat. You're a tough judge (I mean that in a good way :))

Mikey likes it...:)
 
IslandEagle said:
This would be an excellent choice for you. Simple, stable, tough, well-designed, and easily maintained. The example you posted appears to be in great condition.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
Click to expand...

And you can rename it 'Ugly Stick' :lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Wow Scott! I must admit, that response was a big surprise, especially coming from you....It MUST be a nice boat. You're a tough judge (I mean that in a good way :))

Mikey likes it...:)
Click to expand...

Fuel tankage 800 gallons, so you have decided not to cross oceans?
 
100' houseboat. Boston. I don't think so. Even stupid me wouldn't do that. But that being said it's not me looking to buy. Now that Florida Bay Coaster, I believe they're built in either Guatamalae or Elsalvador and come to the states on there own bottom. The one that sank in the upper Chesapeake in rough weather had something come loose in the engine room and putting a hole in the hull. Coastal cruiser they are and most are steel.Larry
 
Do you guys think the Florida Bay Coaster will be okay to make Carribean runs?

Also, the shallow draft 4' 6" should put me back on the ICW?
 
deckofficer said:
Fuel tankage 800 gallons, so you have decided not to cross oceans?
Click to expand...

This is my Plan B boat. You havn't been following this thread, but my Plan B would be to purchase something that is not ocean-going now, then trade her in later for something that would cross. My teens will be off to college in a few years. For the Plan B, I would want to purchase something that is either short money and chaulk up the loss if I can't sell or something that will not completely depreciate to 0 and I could get a small piece of the money back later.
 
LWW said:
100' houseboat. Boston. I don't think so. Even stupid me wouldn't do that. But that being said it's not me looking to buy. Now that Florida Bay Coaster, I believe they're built in either Guatamalae or Elsalvador and come to the states on there own bottom. The one that sank in the upper Chesapeake in rough weather had something come loose in the engine room and putting a hole in the hull. Coastal cruiser they are and most are steel.Larry
Click to expand...

Yeah, I believe they say it was a battery. Which I can't picture, but there must be more to it.

That's interesting. I didn't know they were built in SA.
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Do you guys think the Florida Bay Coaster will be okay to make Carribean runs?

Also, the shallow draft 4' 6" should put me back on the ICW?
Click to expand...

Caribbean would be a piece of cake for this boat. Even though 4' 6" draft for her size is shallow, you still will have to be careful in some of the anchorages. If you see a pristine anchorage but only multi hulls are anchored, probably should pass it up.
 
GalaxyGirl said:
...
Westwinds,
It has John Deere engines, with low horespower, so it should get great fuel economy, right?

2000 Florida Bay Coaster 60 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Click to expand...

A diesel is not like a gasoline engine where a smaller engine can give better economy. This has to do with the fact that a gasoline engine has a throttle that cuts back the amount of air that gets into the cylinders. However, a diesel engine always pulls the same amount of air into the engine no matter what the amount of fuel injected into the cylinders. This constant air volume results in better efficiency because the fuel burns hotter resulting in more air expansion from the additional heat developed, giving more power no matter what the power setting. Gasoline engines are more efficient at higher power settings up to the point where excess fuel may be used for engine cooling like in an aircraft engine. Diesel also has a higher compression and the fuel more energy per gallon so more horsepower per gallon, but that’s beside the point.

I used a water line length of 68 feet since the bow of this trawler goes almost straight down and a weight of 140,000. I used two speeds.

At 9.9 knots, 2000 RPM engine speed and 100 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 5.2 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives .95 miles per gallon. For those that are curious, the speed length ratio is 1.2,


At 8.24 knots, 1666 RPM, and 58 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 3.1 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives 1.33 miles per gallon. The speed length ratio is 1.0. Below this RPM setting slobbering can occur because the power is below 40%. If the speed length ratio is taken any lower than 1.0, the engine RPM should be brought up to 2333 RPM occasionally to clear out the carbon.


Here is the link to the propeller power curves: http://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/engines_and_drivetrain/specsheet/MAR/perf_curve_documents/6068TFM50_ALL.pdf


For trawler use with the horsepower demand being a constant amount on a cruise setting, these engines should not exceed more than 154 horsepower or 2333 RPM using horsepower curves. If this is exceeded, excessive engine wear will result. It is possible to get 225 horsepower from these engines at 2600 RPM so lets hope the owners kept the RPM below 2333. A mechanic needs to check for excessive wear with a compression test and used oil analysis.
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Yeah, I believe they say it was a battery. Which I can't picture, but there must be more to it.

...
Click to expand...

If it was a battery bank, maybe a short could get hot enough to melt the steel? Well I am having trouble, like you, trying to picture what happened.:confused:
 
westwinds said:
A diesel is not like a gasoline engine where a smaller engine can give better economy. This has to do with the fact that a gasoline engine has a throttle that cuts back the amount of air that gets into the cylinders. However, a diesel engine always pulls the same amount of air into the engine no matter what the amount of fuel injected into the cylinders. This constant air volume results in better efficiency because the fuel burns hotter resulting in more air expansion from the additional heat developed, giving more power no matter what the power setting. Gasoline engines are more efficient at higher power settings up to the point where excess fuel may be used for engine cooling like in an aircraft engine. Diesel also has a higher compression and the fuel more energy per gallon so more horsepower per gallon, but that’s beside the point.

I used a water line length of 68 feet since the bow of this trawler goes almost straight down and a weight of 140,000. I used two speeds.

At 9.9 knots, 2000 RPM engine speed and 100 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 5.2 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives .95 miles per gallon. For those that are curious, the speed length ratio is 1.2,


At 8.24 knots, 1666 RPM, and 58 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 3.1 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives 1.33 miles per gallon. The speed length ratio is 1.0. Below this RPM setting slobbering can occur because the power is below 40%. If the speed length ratio is taken any lower than 1.0, the engine RPM should be brought up to 2333 RPM occasionally to clear out the carbon.


Here is the link to the propeller power curves: http://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/engines_and_drivetrain/specsheet/MAR/perf_curve_documents/6068TFM50_ALL.pdf


For trawler use with the horsepower demand being a constant amount on a cruise setting, these engines should not exceed more than 154 horsepower or 2333 RPM using horsepower curves. If this is exceeded, excessive engine wear will result. It is possible to get 225 horsepower from these engines at 2600 RPM so lets hope the owners kept the RPM below 2333. A mechanic needs to check for excessive wear with a compression test and used oil analysis.
Click to expand...

Great response!!! :thumb: As expected. Thanks.
 
Now those boats are interesting. I have a sort of strange reaction to them, because I think they look a bit ungainly and sort of top-heavy, but they aren't. One owner of one about the same size, carries a car and a small chopper in the deck, so they must be a lot more stable than they look. And inside, they are fabulous. I was able to have a look at this one,
Boats For Sale - powered by YachtHub - Bosuns Locker
(built in Australia out of aluminium - the only one not steel I understand - was great once ballast was added), at the Sanctuary Cove Boat show a few years back. I was very taken with it as a really beaut coaster, as the name implies. The internal room is amazing.
They certainly look 'different', but at the same time very 'salty' and 'business-like', and they sort of grow on you. So over all...I rather like them.
If you compare the price - ie same price in $A being asked for this 45' as the 60' one in the $US, it's probably good value for the money.
 
Last edited:
GalaxyGirl said:
What do you guys think of the Florida Bay Coaster?

Westwinds,
It has John Deere engines, with low horespower, so it should get great fuel economy, right?

2000 Florida Bay Coaster 60 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Click to expand...

I love them. Always have. Would love to have one where I live.

You could call up Jay Benford and talk to him about them. I chatted with him about another design of his a few years back. There was a great article in Wooden Boat many years ago about the stability curve of the hull. Or maybe it is a Woodenboats design book. Anyways, I learned a lot from the article. I have it at home but not electronically.

On the one that sank, the 8D batteries weren't fastened down and one had knocked the dripless seal off of it's face allowing water in. Free surface effect anyone?
 
westwinds said:
...

I used a water line length of 68 feet since the bow of this trawler goes almost straight down and a weight of 140,000. I used two speeds.

At 9.9 knots, 2000 RPM engine speed and 100 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 5.2 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives .95 miles per gallon. For those that are curious, the speed length ratio is 1.2,


At 8.24 knots, 1666 RPM, and 58 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 3.1 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives 1.33 miles per gallon. The speed length ratio is 1.0...
Click to expand...

I made an error. Somehow I changed the length of the boat to 70 feet rather than 60 feet. Substitute the following for the above:

I used a water line length of 58 feet since the bow of this trawler goes almost straight down and a weight of 140,000. I used two speeds.

At 9.14 knots, 2000 RPM engine speed and 100 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 5.2 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives .88 miles per gallon. For those that are curious, the speed length ratio is 1.2,

At 7.62 knots, 1666 RPM, and 58 propeller horsepower for each engine, the fuel burn is 3.1 gallons per hour for each engine, which gives 1.23 miles per gallon. The speed length ratio is 1.0.
:eek:
 
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