Wooden trawler yearly upkeep costs verses fiberglass

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suprahattie

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I am looking at a 1969 36' grand banks for 22k that needs some tlc, topside paint and the cabin needs some sprucing up, a recent survey gave it a good bill of health overall and put the value at aprox 50k but my concern is the yearly costs to keep the wood and fastners in good shape for a boat this size. The boat I do buy I would like it be able to last 20 years at least. I need some outside input on this one.
 
Depends what you want to do - do you want to work on your boat or use it? The advice we got during our purchase was to run away from woodies unless we were prepared to keep it in a boathouse. We weren't so we did.

Let the flames begin.

:popcorn: :hide:
 
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/im-about-start-project-older-chriscraft-6833.html

A little light reading to get you started.

FWIW I'm in love with wood boats too. So I parked my fiberglass cruiser next to a classic Chris Craft. He told me if he was concerned with cost he'd never own a woodie. He probably has $50+K tied up in his 30 footer and would be lucky to get mid teens for it if sold.

It's a labor of love and the opposite of an investment.
 
I have a 48 year old woodie. I don't think annual upkeep is that onerous once I got on top of it, but it sure does matter to longevity whether your boat is moored under cover. We don't get much snow, but we get 50 inches of rain per year in Olympia. I seriously doubt my boat would be afloat any longer if it had been moored in the open and allowed rain water to get at the bilges, windows, flybridge, you name it. Some folks out this way solve or ameliorate the threat by either mooring under cover or using very extensive canvas systems when covered moorage is not available. In your area, canvas may not hold the weight of snow. There is a 1966 32 out this way which has been on the market for awhile at $24.5K and it looks from the pics to be a beauty. $22K for a 36' needing only some cosmetic care sounds fair.
 
Wooden Boat Upkeep

suprahattie,
I would recommend checking out the Grand Banks owners site and looking at the Woodenboat Magazine Forum for informed guidance. Based on my experience, the real cost in buying an old boat is in getting the systems on the boat up to standard, not the cost of the maintaining the hull. However, keeping a wood boat in a covered moorage is a real plus, because they do rot from the top down.
RandyT
 
The joy of a wooden boat is it was designed to be repaired, so If a problem does occur its only a hunk of wood to fit.

Many "GRP" boats are plywood with a layer of glass slobbered over.

This is hard as heck to repair , most needs rebuilding/replacement of a huge area not just a plank.

The Woodie does need a bigger "reserve fund" as some chunks of wood (like the stem or transom) require skill to replace.
 
VERY VERY well said FF.

Actually one may need just as big a reserve fund for water damaged deck and cabins on a FG boat
 
I grew up around the old Chris Crafts and really love 'em, and no offense to the guys on here who do own a woodie, but I would never own a wood boat. I think a wood boat is great if you're a handyman DIY'er and would love all the refinishing work that needs to be kept up with.

I think Clint Eastwood said it best in one of his Dirty Harry movies..."A man's got to know his limitations." I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not a wood worker and basically wouldn't know where to start on repairing a wood boat, nor do I have the desire to spend my time keeping it well maintained.

I do know how to run a Makita buffer and that's about all that's need to maintain the hull and deck on my boat.
 
FF said:
The joy of a wooden boat is it was designed to be repaired, so If a problem does occur its only a hunk of wood to fit.

Many "GRP" boats are plywood with a layer of glass slobbered over.

This is hard as heck to repair , most needs rebuilding/replacement of a huge area not just a plank.

The Woodie does need a bigger "reserve fund" as some chunks of wood (like the stem or transom) require skill to replace.
Click to expand...

Perhaps homemade plywood boats fit your description, but I invite you to shed that bias and look at Sam Devlin's boats, not to mention my old Tolly and boats such as the legendary Calkins Bartender. They are plywood. Hull repairs, if necessary, are actually quite straight forward. Again, water coming in from the topside is the enemy, as it is for any boat. As I walk the docks in Puget Sound, I do not see a plethora of 40+ year old fiberglass boats other than the occasional tank-like UniFlites. I imagine the same is true in Maine.
 
Some marinas in this area (NJ) are refusing wooden boats.

I also remember a wooden boat being given a hard time at a Trawlerfest in MD.

I don't agree but it's something to consider before purchasing.
 
suprahattie said:
I am looking at a 1969 36' grand banks for 22k that needs some tlc, topside paint and the cabin needs some sprucing up, a recent survey gave it a good bill of health overall and put the value at aprox 50k but my concern is the yearly costs to keep the wood and fastners in good shape for a boat this size. The boat I do buy I would like it be able to last 20 years at least. I need some outside input on this one.
Click to expand...

Was this survey a pre-purchase survey done for you, or was it a valuation survey done for the current owner? There is a huge difference. Was it an "out of the water" survey? How many fastenings were pulled? Did the surveyor spend a half-hour going over the hull (outside) with a mallet? Did he/she use a little camera on a stick to peer in behind the tanks and find the soft spots?....because they are there.....typical places for rot to start are not out in plane view, they are hidden...places like the tops of deck beams (where fasteners have allowed fresh water in).

Buying old wooden boats that have not ever been substantially rebuilt is not for the faint of heart.....you need to be mentally and financially (or personally skilled) ready to deal with major problems. There may not be any major problems, perhaps only a bunch of minor ones. But old wooden boats are available cheap for a reason. If you have to pay someone to do all the work involved the cost will be substantial. If you want to do it yourself be careful and find a good adviser......
 
Most leak and need a lot of attention. High risk to sink and be abandoned.
 
supra, I bought a woodie and love it. You will to. They have a life about them that fiberglass boats don't have. Generally it's a pain in the butt life, always bitchen and moaning, but when you get them on their good days you can't beat em' for the money. Mine was burnt when I bought it so I took it to the next level. Good luck, Paul
 
Originally Posted by alormaria
Some marinas in this area (NJ) are refusing wooden boats.

SaucySailoress said:
Why?
Click to expand...

Many yacht harbors (marinas) in and around SF Bay and Delta refuse wood boats. Way too many being abandoned to rot or sink at slip. Ins cos not wanting to insure woodys. :eek:

The slow but steady passing of a grand old boat building age... :cry:
 
bobofthenorth said:
Depends what you want to do - do you want to work on your boat or use it? The advice we got during our purchase was to run away from woodies unless we were prepared to keep it in a boathouse. We weren't so we did.

Let the flames begin.

:popcorn: :hide:
Click to expand...

Hahaha yeah ok!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by bobofthenorth
Depends what you want to do - do you want to work on your boat or use it? The advice we got during our purchase was to run away from woodies unless we were prepared to keep it in a boathouse. We weren't so we did.

Let the flames begin.

:popcorn: :hide:

Hendo78 said:
Hahaha yeah ok!
Click to expand...

Hendo Me Mate - Ya got no prob! Yours is not a used woody - It Is a NEW woody... with decades of life ahead!! :thumb:

Cheers - Art :dance:
 
I guess the op ran away and is still running!!!
 
Art said:
Originally Posted by bobofthenorth http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...-costs-verses-fiberglass-8648.html#post129704
Depends what you want to do - do you want to work on your boat or use it? The advice we got during our purchase was to run away from woodies unless we were prepared to keep it in a boathouse. We weren't so we did.

Let the flames begin.

:popcorn: :hide:

Hendo Me Mate - Ya got no prob! Yours is not a used woody - It Is a NEW woody... with decades of life ahead!! :thumb:

Cheers - Art :dance:
Click to expand...

;-)
 
In the slip next to me is a ~35' Mathews wood boat. A few years back it was in a different marina and the power went off one very cold winter night. The hull leaked (as some wood boats do) and the bilge pumps ran the battery down and the boat sank. It spent 48 hours under water before it was able to be raised. It then spent a year or more on the hard while the entire boat dried out.

The owner is in the early stages of a many-year project to restore the boat. It's been in the water for over a year now and the bilge pumps still kick on frequently, and indication that the hull is still not sealed.

When I look at what the owner has ahead of him I can only shake my head and wonder why someone would want a project like that.

So I'm back to my original thoughts on wood boats....while he's refinishing his 'popsicle stick' boat, I'll be cruising on my 'tupperware' boat.

Now before you all start attacking me and saying that not all wood boats have leaky hulls, please know that I understand that. I'm not trying to say all wood boats leak, but they do require more maintenance than 'tupperware' boats.
 
OK, but I am unclear on the "attacking" part.
Randy
 
All boats require care and maintenance.....if they don't get it they will sink eventually....doesn't matter what the hull is made of. Fiberglass boats sink too, actually fairly often, and often from neglect.....but marinas are not banning fiberglass boats? That might hurt......

What if you have a wooden boat sheathed with fiberglass? Or a wood cored (balsa is wood) fiberglass boat? Silly.......

Sensible marina operators will demand current survey and insurance, and not worry about construction material.
 
Our harbormaster in Thorne Bay AK bought this fine 38' double end troller built in 1938. No serious issues w the hull (I haven't heard of any actually) but needed a new gear. And as good wood boat owners do, here he is maintaining his proud old wood boat.

Would I buy a wood boat?
Very much yes but only w an extensive survey and all the ducks lined up and examined. Emphasis on "examined". Fishermen "maintain" their boats in ways a yachtsman like ourselves wouldn't think of. For example a lot of SE AK fishermen coat their decks w tar. Good old black tar. Fine protection but us yachties wouldn't tolerate that at all ... me included. I'd allow a slightly sticky oil finish though.

And the OPs expression probably shouldn't be used w any boat. Too often a wood boat will require some rotten wood to be repaired in his deadwood (pun intended) or a FG boat owner may fix a window and find his whole cabin side is delaminated plywood. Annual cost can be guessed at but huge variations will come to pass.
 

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One of the best replies to this question comes from the current BOAT US magazine. It's a response to a letter with a question about worms in wood hulls. This answer was provided by one of BOAT US's Tech Team, Don Casey. In the original letter the writer said there were some worm holes in the hull of a boat he was looking at. The guys on the dock said to stay away from a wood hull. The writer of the letter was asking about that.

" The guys have a point. Wooden boats do way better in a cold climate, but there are plenty of wood boats in southern waters. The analogy that appeals to me is the difference between wooden and composite tennis rackets. Both are fine in use, but if you fail to take exacting care of the wooden one when not in use, it commits suicide. The composite one just waits. Hulls are like that. Wood boats are wonderful to sail aboard, quiet and substantial-feeling, but extremely vulnerable to neglect. The question you need to answer is, how much time or money are you Willing to commit to maintenance, and how conscientious are you? If you're the kind of person who sometimes lets things slide, or if you life is so complicated that time is sometimes just unavailable, then you should stay away from a wood boat. Wood boats are never a bargain. Wood-boat ownership has to be a passionate lover affair. As for worms; Painting the bottom carefully every years is typically adequate to prevent or at least severely limit worm attacks. A more durable defense is fiberglass sheathing or coating the bottom with a coal-tar epoxy. "

I think his comments about the type of person who should buy/own a wood boat are probably pretty accurate.
 
A lot of my friends are in the "wood boat" fraternity.

They "wood boat" next weekend, but first they have a few things to do to get seaworthy again...

Maybe the weekend after, or the weekend after that. I know of one couple that literally spend *years* on a DIY pace and budget restoring their bargain woodie to a state where it could be used. Life is too short, sorry,

Wood boat owners. Sadly, many of them "wood" boat, if they had everything replaced, refastened, refinished, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I admire wooden boats and respect the folks who make the enormous commitment of time and money to their ravenous appetites for time and money. It's like snow. I live where it seldom snows, and I wouldn't want to put up with the inconvenience of dealing with it on a regular basis- but it sure looks pretty up on the mountains.
 
GFC said:
One of the best replies to this question comes from the current BOAT US magazine. It's a response to a letter with a question about worms in wood hulls. This answer was provided by one of BOAT US's Tech Team, Don Casey. In the original letter the writer said there were some worm holes in the hull of a boat he was looking at. The guys on the dock said to stay away from a wood hull. The writer of the letter was asking about that.

" The guys have a point. Wooden boats do way better in a cold climate, but there are plenty of wood boats in southern waters. The analogy that appeals to me is the difference between wooden and composite tennis rackets. Both are fine in use, but if you fail to take exacting care of the wooden one when not in use, it commits suicide. The composite one just waits. Hulls are like that. Wood boats are wonderful to sail aboard, quiet and substantial-feeling, but extremely vulnerable to neglect. The question you need to answer is, how much time or money are you Willing to commit to maintenance, and how conscientious are you? If you're the kind of person who sometimes lets things slide, or if you life is so complicated that time is sometimes just unavailable, then you should stay away from a wood boat. Wood boats are never a bargain. Wood-boat ownership has to be a passionate lover affair. As for worms; Painting the bottom carefully every years is typically adequate to prevent or at least severely limit worm attacks. A more durable defense is fiberglass sheathing or coating the bottom with a coal-tar epoxy. "

I think his comments about the type of person who should buy/own a wood boat are probably pretty accurate.
Click to expand...

Typical gross generalization and downright misinformation from the ignorant. This guy has never owned or maintained a wooden boat, or a steel or aluminum one either......An aluminum boat is "extremely vulnerable to neglect" as well. I spend a lot more time going around our marina re-tieing the lines on plastic boats and never have to deal with the wooden boats, so plastic boats are not for those who "sometimes let things slide".

His pronouncement that "wooden boats are never a bargain" is rubbish. A wooden boat with superior pedigree is just as likely (perhaps more likely due to silly prejudice) to be a bargain as any other boat in any other material.

And his information on bottom maintenance is completely wrong. We now have non-ablative (so called hard) bottom paints that (properly applied) are good for at least 3 years on a softwood hull. Sheathing with fiberglass or epoxy is an extreme measure that usually results in disaster. Far better to maintain the hull in way originally intended, with very judicious use of modern products.
 
TAD wrote;

"His pronouncement that "wooden boats are never a bargain" is rubbish. A wooden boat with superior pedigree is just as likely (perhaps more likely due to silly prejudice) to be a bargain as any other boat in any other material."

"Silly prejudice" abounds among boaters and on this forum. Look at all the topics we've discussed. The topic is started w prejudice and ends w prejudice. Fortunately a lot of facts and observations come to pass but I suspect that only rarely does one adopt a new opinion. "You couldn't even give me a wood boat .................. Well if you've got any nice ones I'm here. Because of the prejudice though I'll only give you cheap for it.
 
Wooden boats,
OK you have to love them as you would anything that has your life in its hands.
I have been having an affair with Tidahapah since I built her in 1995.
I know her inside out, from the keel up.
Ok I have had some rot problems, mainly due to fresh water (never salt) and most probably caused by myself and the boat builder in taking a couple of corners during the build.
These problems were all on the fore deck where inserts come thru the ply and glass.

In the tropics worms can be a problem , but if hauled 12 monthly, inspected , antifoul kept up, never a problem.
I have had one worm in all this time, hot wire and creosote treatment and all done, better than a heap of blisters.

I have various friends here in Aus who have bought old timber ex prawn trawlers and most have been in VG shape even at 40 years of age and after a hard life.
Don't ever be afraid of wooden boats, but if purchasing ensure it is surveyed by a well qualified wooden boat surveyor.
Cheers
Benn
 
I am with Tad 100%. I am rather surprised at how many forum members do not seem to understand that wood hulled boats can and do last for decades without superhuman effort. It is one thing to simply not want one; who could argue with personal choice. It is the gross misunderstanding of what is entailed in owning and enjoying a wood hulled vessel that strikes me. Perhaps it is because a fair few of the trawlers owned by folks on this forum are plastic and have water ingress problems which rot wood substrates and such that it becomes extrapolated that an all wood hull must be a nightmare. And as to Chuck Gould and the "wood" boat matter, my slip mate has a plastic boat and anecdotally, he will never spend a night on the hook because his DIY list is still too long. I "wood" not read too much into it.
 
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