Why Crossed Stern Lines ?

When I moved my boat into a slip at the marina where she is now, I noticed that all of the other boats in slips had crossed stern lines. That is, the line from the starboard piling went to the cleat on the port side of the boat, and the line from the port piling went to the cleat on the starboard side of the boat. I did my lines like that also, so as not to be different, but do not see why it is any advantage over going port to port and starboard to starboard. Can anyone educate me on why it is better? (Yeah, I know -- this is not some sort of earthshaking issue. But color me curious).

John

John,
There are 2 reasons for crossing stern lines. First is that a longer line gives the boat more leeway to move up and down with the tides or rocking. Second it is easier to locate the boat in the slip and hold position. Even when at a floating dock, I will tie my stern line to the opposite side for the same reasons. A short breast line usually will not hold the boat in position without being too short to give the boat enough slack if the boat is rocked by a wake. Sometimes even waves in a marina can give a problem. I think it is good practice to cross the stern lines.

The longer the lines, the more stretch there is, and that softens things a bit as the boat moves side to side in the slip.

I know the advantages of crossed stern lines as have been mentioned, but I'm one who doesn't cross them because it makes getting on the swim platform much more difficult. The lines are a tripping hazard and I don't want someone to trip getting onto my boat.

We have floating docks and waves don't rock my boat much, so boat movement is not a concern. I use two lines at each stern corner. One goes out to a cleat on the dock that's out to the side of the boat and one goes to a cleat that's astern. The boat is centered in the slip so it doesn't touch either side.

I've wondered that myself. I can't see any value on my docks. In fact it would make getting on and off the boat more difficult. The geometry would be the same on mine either way.

Lots and lots of boaters aren't courteous enough to slow their boats to a realistic no wake speed so on a float boats tied up rock a lot and it's really hard on mooring lines. I had to replace some in Thorne Bay for that reason. Interestingly one of the worst offenders was the float planes. They come off plane just before they get to the floats so they can turn around w a minimum of time lost.

I haven't done it yet but I'm going to put a stern cleat right in the center of the aft cockpit on the cap rail. This way the boat can rock or roll almost w/o any pulling on the stern line attached to that center cleat. Also it will give me a good cleat for towing on center line. And no I do not have a swim step. I don't have a need for one and I have no problem swing'in my leg over the rail.

By not crossing your stern lines, you would usually have more of a chance of damage due to wakes. The crossed lines "take up" sooner than 2 perpendicular stern lines.

Here is an illustration of where I used the opposite stern cleat to secure the boat to a floating dock. It you look closely the black line can be seen. It did not interfere with our using the transom door or stern platform for entry and exit. In this case a breast line that held the boat close enough to the dock would have been too short. This photo was at St. Augustine that is noted for current and NE winds.

Moonstruck wrote:

"There are 2 reasons for crossing stern lines. First is that a longer line gives the boat more leeway to move up and down with the tides or rocking. Second it is easier to locate the boat in the slip and hold position."

Lots of good answers, but I think that Moonstruck's answer is probably the one I was looking for. Makes sense!

Thanks,
John

In my marina with floating docks and little/no wake, boats have their lines directly tied to the docks. Besides, Coot's "stern" cleats aren't on the quarter so crossing the lines isn't practical.

You get more stretch with the longer lines and thus better shock absorbing characteristics, among things mentioned earlier.

Pulling a long spring line tight from the stern will help the boat stay off the dock if the stern line are crossed if you cannot 4 point the boat.

jwnall said:

I did my lines like that also, so as not to be different, but do not see why it is any advantage over going port to port and starboard to starboard. Can anyone educate me on why it is better? (Yeah, I know -- this is not some sort of earthshaking issue. But color me curious).

John

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Crossing the lines can be advantageous for the reasons others have stated. However it may not be possible depending on the slip layouts. In our marina, for example, there are two boats to a slip. So we cannot cross lines as this would prevent the other boat from leaving or entering the slip.

What boaters in our marina often do, however, including us, is use a pair of bowlines to accomplish the same thing but with the bow only. The longer line extending at an angle over toward the other side of the slip offers more shock absorbing and helps keep the forward half of the boat from being mashed up against the finger if the wind is blowing the boat onto it. In this case the "outside" bow lines of the two boats will cross but it's not a problem for either boat's ability to leave or enter the slip.

Marin said:

In our marina, for example, there are two boats to a slip. So we cannot cross lines as this would prevent the other boat from leaving or entering the slip.

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In our marina, there are also two boats to a slip, but we have full time porters who will re-tie the other boat's line up behind you when you pull out.

But I don't see how crossing lines or not crossing lines would be affected by having a second boat in the slip. Either you tie on four corners, which means crossing the neighbouring boat with your lines, or you only tie with three points...

There are so many possible line combinations that can be used depending on how protected the slip is, how much tide there is, whether at a floating dock, or combination floating/pilings, tied mostly alongside, etc, etc...etc...

My experience is many boaters really don't have a clue why they tie their boat up a certain way other than that's the way it's usually done at that marina.

I know many long time experienced boaters, even commercial guys that are pretty lax/clueless about how to tie up a vessel well.

The biggest reason for crossing is that the placement of cleats on floating docks akmost makes it necessary to keep the boat in the middle of your slip...but I have suggested in some marinas that each boat uses the cleats behind the neighboring boats so the lines don't have to be crossed and the lines are angled enough to keep the boat in their slip. Works just as well and the swim platforms are clear and the outboard guys don't have rubbing on their motors.

Then some clown comes along and refuses to tie up that way and ruins it sometimes for everyone else.

So there can be all kinds of reasons to rig lines in different ways... but I really don't agree with the "shock" theory on the longer lines. Most boats under 40 feet as so many use lines so large in diameter that a short steep wake really can't get much stretch and you feel pretty good jerking anyway.

Diggy and transom davits keep me from crossing stern lines . Most boats around here do cross them
Steve W

We can't cross our stern lines as we dock bow in and our stern is at least 15 feet past the end of the dock!

psneeld said:

you feel pretty good jerking anyway.

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Ummm ... We're still talking about rope, yea??? Haha :-D

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Hendo78 said:

Ummm ... We're still talking about rope, yea??? Haha :-D

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Thanks for the catch...I mean the guys that use oversize lines are really......oh...I'll leave it to the imagination...

SaucySailoress said:

But I don't see how crossing lines or not crossing lines would be affected by having a second boat in the slip.

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Because sending a line across to the other finger would put the line behind the boat beside you, and their line to their opposite finger would put their line behind us. So our neighbor would need to remove our line to get his boat in or out and we would have to do the same with his line to move our boat. And the rule around here is you don't do anything to interfere with another boat and you don't mess with another boat's lines unless there is reason to do so because of a problem or emergency.

Probably 90 percent or more of the boats in our 2000-boat marina are moored bow in. But I have never seen anyone use crossed lines at the entrance of a slip except on the rare occasions when there is temporarily only one boat in a slip, and this only during the winter when we get strong winds. The same holds true in every other marina we've been to which puts two boats in a slip, which is most if not all of them.

The only exceptions might be if a storm is coming and boaters sharing a slip agree to add extra lines across the entrance to a slip. But under normal circumstances lines are never used across the entrance.

psneeld said:

Thanks for the catch...I mean the guys that use oversize lines are really......oh...I'll leave it to the imagination...

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Hehehe it's amazing how seemingly innocent a comment is until some smartar$e uses the quote option and deletes sections lol

Nothing like a bit of friendly banter :-D. Good to see you can have a laugh mate! Too many serious people on here ;-)

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psneeld said:

...but I have suggested in some marinas that each boat uses the cleats behind the neighboring boats so the lines don't have to be crossed and the lines are angled enough to keep the boat in their slip. Works just as well and the swim platforms are clear and the outboard guys don't have rubbing on their motors.

Then some clown comes along and refuses to tie up that way and ruins it sometimes for everyone else.

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I'm confused here. Doesn't take much sometime. If we do what you are suggesting the boat on my left's starboard aft line would use the cleat behind my boat and my port stern line would go to his starboard dock cleat. Both boats are in their slips stern to. This causes a bit of a problem as the lines have to cross over the finger dock between our two boats. Creating a tripping hazard.

JD said:

I'm confused here. Doesn't take much sometime. If we do what you are suggesting the boat on my left's starboard aft line would use the cleat behind my boat and my port stern line would go to his starboard dock cleat. Both boats are in their slips stern to. This causes a bit of a problem as the lines have to cross over the finger dock between our two boats. Creating a tripping hazard.

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If there's a finger dock...there should be a cleat right under your stern cleat...if not install one...if the marina says no...they are jerks.

The short line should keep you in place easily. If it is not a floating dock then I would have to see your whole setup to make another recommendation.

psneeld wrote:

"If there's a finger dock...there should be a cleat right under your stern cleat...if not install one...if the marina says no...they are jerks"

Generally speaking, forgiveness is easier to get than permission.

markpierce said:

In my marina with floating docks and little/no wake, boats have their lines directly tied to the docks. Besides, Coot's "stern" cleats aren't on the quarter so crossing the lines isn't practical.

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I have installed Seahorse cleats on the stern. No problems at all

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To overcome the short, vertical lines at the stern problem, I had cleats welded to the lower extremities of my davit assemblies, so then a line can be run horizontally to the bull rail. When a wash comes by, the line is long enough and the angle is fair, so there is no jerking. If we are boarding from the swimgrid, I put this line further aft on the bull rail to allow inimpeded access.

jwnall said:

When I moved my boat into a slip at the marina where she is now, I noticed that all of the other boats in slips had crossed stern lines. That is, the line from the starboard piling went to the cleat on the port side of the boat, and the line from the port piling went to the cleat on the starboard side of the boat. I did my lines like that also, so as not to be different, but do not see why it is any advantage over going port to port and starboard to starboard. Can anyone educate me on why it is better? (Yeah, I know -- this is not some sort of earthshaking issue. But color me curious).

John

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TheOP isn't talking about floats or docks. He talks of a piling on either side of his stern. So I'm thinking there must be some small tidal change or other changing of water levels that make "crossing the stern lines" a good or necessary practice to make the lines long enough so as not to become too tight.

So he must be talking about a European bow in and stern tied off type of moorage. From what I've seen stern in may be more popular but that (it would seem) would require deep water near/at the seawall. I think it may be that simple and we've gone of in more complicated directions.

Can/will the original poster confirm this?

Harvest Eagle said:

I have installed Seahorse cleats on the stern. No problems at all

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I had the Coot's builder install an extra cleat on each side between the stern and "standard" midship cleats. I've found them handy.