Tool question for Eric, Carl, other Puget Sounders

I am trying to find driver bits for my old-style brace. I have found this is the best tool on the planet for removing and replacing deck screws, grabrail screws, etc. I have a couple of bits that I found on eBay, but I'm wondering if anyone in this area is aware of any hardware stores that might still have old brace driver bits in stock.

I bought the brace itself in an antique store in La Conner but they did not have any driver bits. A good friend and retired marine engineer has a whole set of them but I don't like borrowing this kind of thing.

We're going to try the Marine/Hardware store in Anacortes this Saturday. We've bought stuff there before and it's a pretty amazing store. Whether they have the kind of tapered shaft drivers I need I don't know.

If anyone has any other ideas I'd like to hear them.

Thanks,

Marin you might want to try these guys, they are great.
Hand Braces and Accessories - Lee Valley Tools

Not sure if OSH(Orchard Supply Hardware) is in PNW or not. They stock the old style brace and bit tool you speak of. Kind of refreshing to see them sold adjacent to the most modern power tools.

Try Rockler or Woodcraft. Both have stores in Seattle.

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rochepoint said:

Marin you might want to try these guys, they are great.
Hand Braces and Accessories - Lee Valley Tools

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Very cool. Thanks a bunch for that link.

Hardwick on Roosevelt is your best bet for vintage tools.

Stop in at the wooden boat site on the South end of Lake Union. They can provide you the tool details and more. It is well worth the time anyway to see all the wooden boat skills on display.

Marin said:

I am trying to find driver bits for my old-style brace. I have found this is the best tool on the planet for removing and replacing deck screws, grabrail screws, etc. I have a couple of bits that I found on eBay, but I'm wondering if anyone in this area is aware of any hardware stores that might still have old brace driver bits in stock.

I bought the brace itself in an antique store in La Conner but they did not have any driver bits. A good friend and retired marine engineer has a whole set of them but I don't like borrowing this kind of thing.

We're going to try the Marine/Hardware store in Anacortes this Saturday. We've bought stuff there before and it's a pretty amazing store. Whether they have the kind of tapered shaft drivers I need I don't know.

If anyone has any other ideas I'd like to hear them.

Thanks,

Click to expand...

I expect you'll find a set at Marine Hardware as you suggest. In fact I have a mental image of them on display. Plus you can pick up a couple of cans of 40 year old paint while you're there.

Hardware Sales ??????

Maybe ------ But I'm sure you've checked there ...... they seem to have or can get everything!!!!!!! Merry Christmas..jp

Did you see that Marin???


HARDWICK'S on Roosevelt Way in the U District in Seattle.


You'll find what you want there.....
And just about anything else.

Not would you are looking for but!

The best tool/screw driver to grab/hold a screw that is stripped and hard to reach is an Electrician screw driver. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=electricians+screwdriver&op=search&Ntt=electricians+screwdrive&N=0&sst=subset&cm_mmc=PPC:%20MSN%20Main%202-_-Hand%20Tools%20Screwdrivers%20and%20Nutdrivers-_-Electricians%20Screwdriver-_-electricians%20screwdriver&ef_id=UaZPiPYt7HEAAIIj:20121219155947:s. They are also sold at most electric stores, like Granger Northcoast electric/Platt. The flat blade is split/slotted so the blade can be made wider/thicker to hold grab the screw. Great for removing deck screws with out damaging the deck. I been using them for years and have a set of different sizes.

I would second (or third) Hardwick's in the U-District. If there is a tool to be had, you will find it at Hardwick's. Plus, the staff there really know their stuff.

manyboats said:

Did you see that Marin???


HARDWICK'S on Roosevelt Way in the U District in Seattle.


You'll find what you want there.....
And just about anything else.

Click to expand...

Yes, I've been to Hardwicks a number of times. I'll try them again if the Anacortes store doesn't have anything. Hardwicks is a great store and they carry a ton of stuff but it's been my experience that it's all new, or still made today, stuff. The same is true of Hardware Sales in Belingham, which we use a lot.

Definitely worth a try, though.

www.jamestowndistributors.com/

Should be in stock.

The hammer driver type tool seems the best (after a bit of PB Blaster) to simply loosen a fastning , and the brace and screwdriver bit for removal.

There is an adaptor to fit a brace , and be able to use the throw away 6 sided little inserst.

But for a # 14 sized screw , only a brace will do it.

All this talk about a Brace started getting me all worked up (doesn't take much these days). Here's mine that came down through the family. It got quite a lot of use on our old wooden boat. Nowadays, not so much.

Marin, I take it you find the brace and screwdriver bit give good downforce plus good leverage to turn a reluctant screw. I use a 1/4" drive ratchet with a long extension and a 5/16 hex socket on the end. Impact-driver bits fit nicely into the 5/16" socket and allow a nice straight push with plenty of torque. These bits are hard and keep their shape so they fit the screw heads properly - and that's half the battle.

Marin,

Stop in at the Anacortes store as I'm quite sure they have some bits.

I took that 45# Dreadnought back and was shocked when they gave me all my money back. I really didn't think it was going to be worth the drive out there and I don't think the guys there that day liked me at all cuz they were very smart lipped but they gave me all my money back. Perhaps they thought what I said was smart lipped. Must have a firm money back policy. So now we can buy anything and take it home and look at it for awhile and then take it back if it dosn't please us as much as we thought it would.

The issue with our situation is that the screws I'm working with are pretty big, and they are slotted head. Our deck screws are stainless, which is great because I reuse them for reasons I won't go into here. I used to remove and reseat them with a regular screwdriver and that worked fine other than one's wrist gets tired after awhile. The brace eliminates that problem.

But the screws holding the teak grab rails are bronze with fairly large heads and they are a good six or so inches long. And they've been in the boat for 40 years. I learned the technique for working them out from the shipwrights on the GB forum, and the tool they recommend as being the best for the job is the brace. Some people there advocate an impact driver but they also say this increases the risk of shearing off the head.

Unlike the stainless deck screws we do not reuse these long bronze grabrail screws. But we do want to get them out intact. If they shear off there's a whole different technique and tool for dealing with that which I've had to do with some of them. But the job is a whole lot cleaner and faster if I can get the original screw out in one piece and the brace does seem to be the best tool for that particular job.

manyboats said:

I took that 45# Dreadnought back and was shocked when they gave me all my money back.

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THREAD CREEP ALERT but it's my thread and I don't care.

Eric--- Why did you decide to return the Dreadnought?

All slot head screws that I remove go over the side. A boat is not suited to screws that you cant undo reliably. If I could, I would have nothing but Robertson head on my boat.

koliver said:

All slot head screws that I remove go over the side. A boat is not suited to screws that you cant undo reliably. If I could, I would have nothing but Robertson head on my boat.

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The problem is that the screws made today often have smaller diameter heads than the screws made decades ago. That's the situation with the stainless deck screws on our boat. They are #8 flathead, but their heads are half again as wide as the #8 flathead screws you buy today. Which is why I reuse them, because they get a much better purchase on our deck planks which in most areas are right at their minimum thickness due to previous owner sandings and use of chemical teak "restorers."

Greetings,
I would deep six all the Philips and their kin as well but unfortunately, Robertson screws are virtually unheard of in the USA. Heard about and got some of these from a Canadian friend-OUTSTANDING!!!! I have heard them called square socket screws and Hatteras screws as well but ask for them in a store and you get plenty of blank stares. Who ever designed Torx fasteners should be locked away. Ya, ya, I fully understand the reasoning behind Torx, but they STILL suck almost as bad as Philips.

I think Impact drivers are perfect for removal, but would not use them for replacing screws. For that a regular driver/drill with the capacity to dial down the slip torque is the way to go.

But to the original question. Why not have a tapered end welded onto an 'extender fitting' for the standard driver bits? That way you just have one fitting for the brace, but change the bits as required.

Insequent said:

But to the original question. Why not have a tapered end welded onto an 'extender fitting' for the standard driver bits? That way you just have one fitting for the brace, but change the bits as required.

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You could do that and that is what some of the shipwrights on the GB forum have had to do. But the centering needs to be right on. The other thing some of them have done is machine tapered ends on the shafts of cold chisels. But again, the machining has to be accurate to get the tool centered in the brace and then the chisel end needs to be ground down to the right size for the screw.

The main problem I've run into is that modern driver bits are simply not made large enough for the screws I have to remove. Manual screw drivers are, or course. But the interchangeable bits sold in most stores all tend to be too small for my purposes.

I've gotten a couple of proper brace drivers on eBay but I'd like to get a bigger selection. They are out there in various old stores--- the trick is finding them.

Marin
Have a look here Diefenbacher Tools Drills scroll down to the second item.

Mike--- Thanks for the link. Unfortunately the three bits I would be interested in-- the slotted screw bits-- have been discontinued and apparently are no longer available unless I misread the site.

Hi Marin
Sorry about that, did a google search under the discontinued part number and came up with Robert Larson as the manufacturer and available her http://www.toolzone.com/acatalog/Tool_Zone_Catalog_Auger_Bits___Screwdrivers_for_Braces_3274.html

koliver said:

All slot head screws that I remove go over the side. A boat is not suited to screws that you cant undo reliably. If I could, I would have nothing but Robertson head on my boat.

Click to expand...

Spoken like a true Canadian! I love Robertson square drive too - the bits are slightly tapered, so the fastener stays put on the bit and you can shoot 'em in one-handed! The installer's friend - Robertson screws were all I used in my days as a marine electrician.

My brace will screw down to accept almost any square or six sided bit. If I could find one exactly the right size for the screws...I'd buy a slightly larger one and use a file or grinder to make it perfect.

I too agree a brace is one of the best tools for removing screws/bolts in tough situations.

When you discover six fluted socket head screws called "Star"or "Torx" head you'll think of square head screws like you thought of Phillips head screws before. But the only application I've seen is for "deck" screws. They may exist but I haven't seen them. For more clamping pressure I sometimes use flat washers w these deck screws. I have seen the square head screws in SS.