My boat is bigger than yours!

Forum members,

A statement has been made that the majority of posters/members of this forum own boats that lay between 30,000# and over 100,000#. The insinuation, I take it as, if you are under #30,000# the poster vaguely suggest that another venue may suit 'small boaters who think they have a "Real" trawler'.

I can not think of a common simple format to reflect the claim. At this point the claim reflects the statement purported to have been made by General Ike Eisenhower prior to D-Day that "X" number of casualties would result. When challenged to the number given and how did Ike know, Ike responded, "Let those who challenge the number prove the number wrong"

As I read the responses from various forums where pictures of the owners boat are depicted or described I seriously doubt that the claim would stand up.

Myself, I am fairly thick skinned, the frustration is allowing the subtle suggestion hidden in a claim as stated having me wondered if the invitation to join this forum carries a hierarchy depicted in the pecking order of boat size. "Mine is bigger than yours!" cried the bigger of the two little boys.

Just saying,
A.M.(Al) Johnson-Ketchikan
27 ' Marben-pocket (10,000#) trawler

Al, For the life of me I can't figure out how you got this impression. Heck, I don;t even have a trawler style boat. You do. Your boat probably belongs here more than mine. I think in a lot of ways people with larger boats can envy the simplicity and flexibility of the smaller boats. Everyone has much to add. The collective knowledge here is great. I learn all the time (though it may not appear so). I just ordered a SOC meter that I learned the value of here. I ordered it from a link that was put up by Gonzo. If you have something to add jump in you will be helping someone.

You just reminded me also that I have been wondering how Honeybadger is coming along on the projects on his boat. I love Harkers Island boats no matter what the size.

When we were between boats, and just had the 25' Blackfin it didn't stop me from cruising from Louisiana to all along the West Coast of Florida on a center console with a cuddie cabin. Took it everywhere.

Really opinionated people, generally speaking, aren't willing to listen or learn from others no matter which medium conveys the message, but the trait does seem accentuated on Internet forums.

Murray posted a link for a single engined vessel that lost its transmission. The vessel in question weighs about 36,000 lbs fully loaded. Quite simply it is not a candidate for a 9.9 hp outboard as some suggested, or any other small OB for that matter.

I would make a small wager, to be paid by the loser buying drinks for 4 at the Bar Harbor restaraunt in Ketchikan, that most of the vessels represented on this forum weigh more than 30,000 pounds when geared up.

Al said:

Forum members,

A statement has been made that the majority of posters/members of this forum own boats that lay between 30,000# and over 100,000#. The insinuation, I take it as, if you are under #30,000# the poster vaguely suggest that another venue may suit 'small boaters who think they have a "Real" trawler'.

Just saying,
A.M.(Al) Johnson-Ketchikan
27 ' Marben-pocket (10,000#) trawler

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Paschaa... Let them eat cake!! Err, I mean I love to eat cake aboard my little 21K lb wet-weight pleasure-power-cruiser!! Heck, let us all eat cake together. Worry not what others think bout you, dwell only upon what you might think bout them.

Sunchaser-
Bar Harbor Restrunt opening and closing is subject. You may wish to know that one of the owners is dealing with serious cancer as we speak. You may be correct on drinks being available. Wine or beer at the most.
It would be a safe bet if Ketchikan pleasure boats were the candidates for weight. However, I stand by my viewing of the postings where detail or photos of the participants are posting. It would be a stretch to say the majority of posters exceed 30,000#. Other than that I will await postings on this subject from those of the general forum community choose to post.
Cheers,
A.M.Johnson-Ketchikan
27' Marben pocket trawler
"Food has replaced sex in my life...now I can't even get into my own pants!"

There are many, many reasons to own a boat.
"Mine is bigger than yours!" is, I guess, as valid a reason as any. But it has been my experience that using size as certification of authority or importance, has no merit.

jeffnick said:

There are many, many reasons to own a boat.
"Mine is bigger than yours!" is, I guess, as valid a reason as any. But it has been my experience that using size as certification of authority or importance, has no merit.

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+1

Hey Jeff, if you know of another dog like Merlin available let me know. Love that dog.

Hey Al, never saw a 27' Marben until googling it just now. Dang purdy boats that show heaps of west coast commercial troller / gillnetter heritage.

I've got a story to tell about why the size of a persons boat doesn't matter.

My wife and I had sea kayaked from Kitimat and were eating lunch in Lund, on the mainland across from Campbell River, BC, and we started talking to some American commercial fishermen who were heading to Alaska.

When they found out we were kayakers, they kind of dismissed us, but when they found out where we had come from and had rounded Cape Caution, had been through Seymour Narrows, and had spent two months in the winter on the north coast, we were invited to join them for lunch. They respected us, because they knew we had 'walked the walk', despite how small our boats were.

Paddling out the next day we saw a motor launch from a HUGE yacht with two poor fellows in white sailor suits with blue trim...yup...and the stupid beanie sailor hat thingies. In the launch with them were the owners of the yacht; she immaculate with a Big-as-Texas hairdo about a foot high, him with white pants, white shirt, and a powder blue sweater tied around his neck, and heroically poised in the bow was their pure white, clipped in perfect spheres all over its body standard poodle. They couldn't have been bothered to even glance in our direction.

I'm glad we met the commercial fishermen.

MurrayM said:

I'm glad we met the commercial fishermen.

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Just goes to show its's not the size, but what you do with it.

I saw the statement that Al is refering to. I have to say it made me feel unwelcome on this forum. To make it worse, it was said by someone who's opinion I usually respect. My poor little Possum weighs less than 9000 pounds.

MoonStruck- Qualify "Geared Up". I have so many obese conotations as I fathom the thought.

A.M (Al).Johnson-Ketchikan
27' Marben-Pocket Trawler
"I'm in the initial stages of my golden years, SS,C.D's,IRA's and AARP!"

Our first trawler at 27' seemed huge to us vs the 17'cc we had. We love our boat now but the Albin will always be special for us.

I wish you North American people would get with the program, by which I mean the Systeme Internationale, otherwise know as SI units, and use tonnes = 1000kg
1kg = 2.2 pounds. Then it would be much easier conceptualising exactly what weight you are talking about. When you are up in the stratospheric place in the 30,000 plus region using pounds, it is a bit hard for us mere downunder types to grasp.
My boat is about 9 tonne = 9000 kg. ( x 2.2 = ~ 20,000 pounds I guess. You can do the maths). Certainly significanly less than the 30,000 lbs Al felt was the lower limit. Whoever posted that 30,000 to 100,000lb range as the norm on here was just skiting a bit I suspect.

Hey! Canada went metric decades ago

1 litre of water = 1 kilogram

0 degrees Celsius = freezing

100 degrees Celsius = boiling

Eazy-Peazy!

"As Tom said, this isn't Small Boat Forum. The boats most of us have range from 30,000 to over 100,000 pounds with a fair amount of windage. What works for a fellow with a Grady White sportfish boat or a little Marben cruiser is of no relevance to me or Tom or anyone with similar or larger, heavier boats. I daresay Carl (Delfin) would not have a whole lot of success trying to get his boat to safety in the midst of stormy weather with a 9.9 hp outboard mounted on his stern.
__________________
C. Marin Faure

Perhaps this is the source of Al's frustration. If so I can see why he took it as he appeared to but I don't think Marin was suggesting those of us that displace less that 30000lbs don't belong here. I'm half that and I know Marin thinks I'm a full fledged trawlerman and my boat Willy at 16000lbs is a full fledged trawler. Marin was frustrated but my comments about not needing 60hp for a get home engine. Marin's right. Most of us are 30K to 45Klbs and all the rest of us to some degree are on the fringe.

I'm on the fringe and when I post I need to be constantly aware that most of those I'm talking to have bigger boats than me and I can easily drift off into a rather irrelevant post. For example I anchor mostly by hand and pack my anchors away here and there on the boat while most all here have anchors stuck out on the bow for convenience because of the high weight of the anchors.

Some think the OB Sea Dory is a trawler (I don't) but Sea Dory skippers are welcome here and should feel practically as belonging as most everyone else. There are people here that don't even have a boat of any kind. WAY beyond boats we're a forum. And a forum is for talk. If the owner of a small OB boat has something to say and it's worthwhile let him (or even her) say it and be judged by what he says and how he says it .... certainly NOT by how big a boat he has.

AND AL I THINK YOU"VE GOT GOOD STUFF TO SAY.

MurrayM said:

Hey! Canada went metric decades ago

1 litre of water = 1 kilogram

0 degrees Celsius = freezing

100 degrees Celsius = boiling

Eazy-Peazy!

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Well, good onya Murray, maybe we can get these Yanks up to speed then eh? However....even Canada has not gone all the way. Don't you still use miles, gallons, and miles per hour etc...?

manyboats said:

...but I don't think Marin was suggesting those of us that displace less that 30000lbs don't belong here. I'm half that and I know Marin thinks I'm a full fledged trawlerman and my boat Willy at 16000lbs is a full fledged trawler. Marin was frustrated but my comments about not needing 60hp for a get home engine. Marin's right. Most of us are 30K to 45Klbs and all the rest of us to some degree are on the fringe.

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Eric is correct. His "small trawler" has twice the seaworthiness of our GB and Eric himself has more boating experience than I will chalk up in my lifetime. I could care less how heavy or large or small or light someone's boat is. Our other boat is a 17' Arima that weighs somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 pounds depending on what's in it at the time, and I don't think of it as any less of a boat than our 30,000 pound GB.

My only point was that people were talking about a 9.9 outboard as though it was the ultimate get-home engine for a "trawler," and this is total crap. It might be an acceptable get home engine for a smaller boat, or even a smaller cruiser. But it's not going to work on our boat, it's not going to work on Tom's even larger boat, and it's not going to work on Carl's way larger boat. In that respect, the experience of folks who use low-powered outboards as get-home engines on their smaller or lighter boats is irrelevant to those of us with larger and heavier boats.

When we said that for larger boats like ours you'd need a pretty powerful and heavy outboard to be a viable get-home-engine, Tom and I were refuted by the folks who seem to think a 10 hp motor is going to cut it across the board. It won't, it hasn't, and it never will. Physics and some other sciences make it impossible.

As to who belongs here and who doesn't, the term "trawler" is totally meaningless with regards to defining a recreational boat. So as far as I'm concerned some guy with a 12' john boat he uses to go duck hunting with in a swamp is as eligible to participate in this forum as the skipper of a 1,000' tanker who for some perverse reason is interested in what we toy boat owners have to say. In the marketing hype definition of "trawler," the john boat and the tanker all fit the description as well as our boat as far as I'm concerned.

Hummmmm, By my count it appears the little boats have the score! (Humor inserted here)
Plenty of points made, points acknowledged.
The direction of the thread intent has again wandered off subject by struggling back into the "Git a Home or get home OB" forum.
I will submit a response on that forum.
Regards,
A.M.(Al) Johnson-Ketchikan
27' Marben pocket trawler
"The secret of staying young is to live honestly, eat slowly, and lie about your age!"

Greetings,
Ya, ya, ya.....Not MY problem that the astronomer on Mercury has Venus envy....Who the hell cares WHAT size their boat is or for that matter what size anybody elses boat is? I certainly don't. You've got a boat. You're thinking of getting a boat. Your thinking of getting a bigger/smaller/another boat. You just like boats. You're welcome here as far as I'm concerned. If I've misinterpreted this fact then I'M in the wrong forum!!!!!!!
I think I've got the best vessel for me at this point in time. If you're opinion is otherwise, take a hike. I've got no use for you. If you think your anchor is the best, fair enough that's YOUR opinion from YOUR perspective and although I may comment on your opinion, that shouldn't make MY choice of anchor right or your choice of anchor wrong in the eyes of a third party observer. It's what works for each of us folks.

Al,

My trawler style boat is on the inside, my BIL's is on the outside and we boat with a much larger boat that ours and nobody mentions anything about my boat is bigger than yours. Everyone enjoys it on the water.

I ride a bike too and even those that love Harley's or are die-hearts do not look down on those that ride Yamaha, Honda or a Kawasaki. As long as you can get out and ride is all that matters.

The one thing though, we are all proud of what we have or can afford. Take this forum for what it is, opinionated proud owners who have something in common and who are willing to share their collective knowledge.

Glad to be here!
Elwin

Does anyone know what the general boat makeup of this forum population is?

Are there more 40 footers and up??? ...or not???

Around 40 feet is where a fully loaded trawler starts to get to that 30,000 number. Most of the 36's and 40's dry weights I've looked up were in the twenties...

Murray
Centigrade is not metric. Metric refers to weights and measures. Degrees Rankin or Kelvin are as close to temperature metric use as one can get based upon the world's elite trying to reach absolute 0 and super conductivity ranking. When do you expect lat and lon to go "metric?" Or points of the compass? Or time? Me thinks a group of politicians who could'nt count above their fingers are at the root of this charade.

Peter B
For us big, small and mid sized toy and trawler boat lovers displacement is still recorded in tons. Like a language, being weights and measures bilingual comes in pretty handy. BTW, when Ausatralia kicked out their English systems why did they not start driving on the right side?

Al
Too bad about the owner's of BH. They have had a rough ride the past few years.

psneeld said:

Does anyone know what the general boat makeup of this forum population is?

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Did somebody say make up?

Muppet Show S2 E3 P1 - Milton Berle - YouTube

sunchaser said:

I would make a small wager, to be paid by the loser buying drinks for 4 at the Bar Harbor restaraunt in Ketchikan, that most of the vessels represented on this forum weigh more than 30,000 pounds when geared up.

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30,000 1975 pounds or 2001 pounds. A fiberglass boat built in 1970's of size X may well weigh over 30k pounds but that same boat built in 2001 would weigh a lot less. Engines and propulsion systems weigh way less for a lot more HP in 2001 than 1975. Hull thickness has gotten a lot thinner with a lot more straight than in 1970's. Designers consider weight a lot more now than in the 70's.

Besides all that no matter how big your boat is just go someplace and get on the near the face dock of a large marina that is near the ocean. Your boat will be the size of someones dinghy with in a few day. Come to Beaufort NC and spend some time at the Beaufort City Docks. That will cure you. Watching a vessel take on 3800 gals of diesel just to top off makes most of the folks here seem like pikers. Common happening in Beaufort.

"The smaller the boat, the bigger the adventure"

From a friend of mine with a lot of water under his 27' long keel.

Moonstruck said:

+1

Hey Jeff, if you know of another dog like Merlin available let me know. Love that dog.

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I'll do a separate post with info, but in the meantime here's a little more about him.

Merlin and I visited a lady at St Francis who had been in the hospital for a quite while. As you know, part of our job is to provide canine therapy, another part is to sometimes offer the dog as a liaison and then to just visit with the person in the bed.

Merlin was warmly welcomed, and petting ensued, but soon her talking overtook the petting and as the patient went on and on, Merlin laid down at my feet. "We" listened for quite a spell, with the lady becoming teary eyed on and off while offering things about her life, family and condition.

At one point, the lady in the bed became so nostalgically emotional that she actually began crying aloud. At this point, Merlin jumped to his feet and promptly put his chin on her hand at the edge of the hospital bed. The lady sparkled up a smile I'll never forget.

bubu

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Ya, ya, ya.....Not MY problem that the astronomer on Mercury has Venus envy....Who the hell cares WHAT size their boat is or for that matter what size anybody elses boat is? I certainly don't. You've got a boat. You're thinking of getting a boat. Your thinking of getting a bigger/smaller/another boat. You just like boats. You're welcome here as far as I'm concerned. If I've misinterpreted this fact then I'M in the wrong forum!!!!!!!
I think I've got the best vessel for me at this point in time. If you're opinion is otherwise, take a hike. I've got no use for you. If you think your anchor is the best, fair enough that's YOUR opinion from YOUR perspective and although I may comment on your opinion, that shouldn't make MY choice of anchor right or your choice of anchor wrong in the eyes of a third party observer. It's what works for each of us folks.

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Right on RTF, that 45,000 KG (100,000 lb.more or less) vessel would be of little use to me here in the Great Lakes and the Trent Severn waterway but for those who have one, want one or in an area that requires one, all the best to them. We all belong on the forum we just need to use what information is useful to us and disregard that which does not apply and be able to know the difference between them.

psneeld said:

Does anyone know what the general boat makeup of this forum population is?

Are there more 40 footers and up??? ...or not???

Around 40 feet is where a fully loaded trawler starts to get to that 30,000 number. Most of the 36's and 40's dry weights I've looked up were in the twenties...

Click to expand...

You could put up a poll for your second question if you wanted to.

Our boat's emtpy weight is averaged as 28,000 pounds. Of course this will vary with the number of engines, the presence of a generator, and so on. When our boat was on the Travelift this past spring with full water tanks but only half fuel I asked the operator for the weight and he read it off as a bit over 30,000 pounds.

Between mid-1973 and 1988 American Marine used Howard Abbey's original molds for the GB36 and GB42. In the beginning, the boats' hulls were undoubtedly overbuilt, fiberglass being a relatively new material for the manufacturing of larger boat hulls.

The molds for the GB36 and GB42 were replaced in 1988 at which time both boats got a wee bit wider, a wee bit longer, and significantly taller. However I would not be surprised to learn that a twin-engine GB36 made with the new molds is lighter than our twin-engine boat, particularly since ours was among the first batch of fiberglass boats American Marine and Howard Abbey made.