New Build - Electric Powered

Exciting Day

Today I was provided with the first pictures of new tender being built. Just the beginning of the floorboards but it's started. Since we are making a few changes to the stock plans it will take a little longer to incorporate everything but still targeting late July.

I also received the first set of preliminary sketches of the electric launch. The designer nailed the boat to our requirements and wishes. Only a few minor cosmetic changes to the wide beam, full displacement hull with a draft we can still trailer. After making a few cosmetic design changes we will send the prints out to electric motor companies for them to size the motor and batteries. As a FD hull I calculated top speed of 5knots and cruise around 4 knots which only slightly slower than our Nordhavn 40's. Interesting....

Today was definitely a good day.

John

N4061 said:

Today I was provided with the first pictures of new tender being built. Just the beginning of the floorboards but it's started. Since we are making a few changes to the stock plans it will take a little longer to incorporate everything but still targeting late July.

I also received the first set of preliminary sketches of the electric launch. The designer nailed the boat to our requirements and wishes. Only a few minor cosmetic changes to the wide beam, full displacement hull with a draft we can still trailer. After making a few cosmetic design changes we will send the prints out to electric motor companies for them to size the motor and batteries. As a FD hull I calculated top speed of 5knots and cruise around 4 knots which only slightly slower than our Nordhavn 40's. Interesting....

Today was definitely a good day.

John

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How is the electric launch different from a Duffy?

Hull Design

twistedtree said:

How is the electric launch different from a Duffy?

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The biggest difference between Duffy design and a traditional SLOEP include lower freeboard and hull design. The very successful Duffy boat brand was designed for the purpose of an electric tour boat in Newport Beach Harbor, CA and remain very popular. Not a hull design I would want to be caught in rough water. Cosmetically they are not very appealing, and all models look similar.

Traditional SLOEP hull designs are usually full displacement with a fine bow entry, wide beam mid-section and a tapered or wine glass transom. In some ways the hull reminds of the KK 39 but a little narrower. A very efficient hull form and not changed very much over time. Both style of boats include deep keels and bilges making them difficult to trailer and launch. In over 40 years of living in southern Cailfornia I cannot recall ever seeing a Duffy being trailered on the freeway. The keel on a SLOEP is usually larger and runs further than on a Duffy. While some SLOEP designs have been changed to allow for planning speeds the traditional hull design is FD and our plan. By designing our own boat we can incorporate the changes we want including greater freeboard, keel depth required for trailering and launching while also achieving the high-end finish we desire.

While I joke about margaritas and listening to great music in the harbor, we still want a boat we can take outside the inlet and run a few miles along the coastline and feel safe when incurring swells or choppy waters. The SLOEP design has been proven to be rough water capable and hopefully more than we need.

All fun stuff.

John

Mako said:

Interesting points about importing. Depending on boat’s size, might be better to ship it to Canada (or Mexico) then sail it to America. I have to believe that clearing customs and EPA and all that would be easier in the water than landing as deck cargo.

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Amen. We got Fintry's USCG document in 2004, long before we left England. That had the advantage that we could ship stuff to her in England free of UK VAT and duty. When we brought her across the Atlantic in 2005, US Customs wasn't interested in the boat itself, despite the fact that it was very clear on her document that she was built in Scotland. It was a complete non-event.


Jim

SLOEP ?
Would like to see some pics

Photo's

Nomad Willy said:

SLOEP ?
Would like to see some pics

Click to expand...

Once we have the preliminary drawings completed, I will post them on this thread. After further review of the first set of drawings I concluded we wanted more beam and asked Paul to take a look at adding 6" - 12" even if it meant we need to extend the LOA slightly. We also are looking at weather protection consisting of a Bimini aft and dodger type cover forward. I would like to design the storage of both tops such that they are out of sight and stowed inside separate compartments. May sound like minor details on a trawler but with a smaller boat everything becomes more magnified especially from a cosmetic perspective. Fun stuff.

John

Drawings Review #2

Today we received our second set of drawings from Paul which includes increases in the boats LOA and beam. Talk about a world of difference with minimum increases. He also added the forward canvas dodger to help determine height requirements and the porta-Potti compartment. Navigation lights were also added to the drawing and blend in nicely. I'm now focused on the bow section including its entry, height and overall shape. As drawn, it resembles more of a traditional Downeast Lobster boat and needs to be a little narrower and pitched aft. Also playing around with the shape of the transom and height of the coaming around the deck to insure a different look from other boats. Playing with the details is definitely fun stuff.

Next item I need to start researching are solar panels that can be temporarily mounted in the recessed areas of the aft and forward deck areas (out of sight) for longer trips. If possible, I would like to design the installation into the boat so the panels can simply slide in and out without visible hardware. This concept is part of our objective to achieve a very high quality and almost "work of art" finish we are seeking.

Since the boat will be on a trailer and we will charge the batteries at home, we are not planning to include a shore power outlet but have not ruled it out. Fun stuff.

John

John

Power Options

Now that we have the basic boat design completed its time to explore power options. I mentioned earlier how the Vectus electric motors are widely used in the EU and feedback from boat builders I spoke with was positive. We reached out to Vectus with our design, and they responded with an option I was not aware of - a newer pod design. Basically, a vertically mounted motor, drive system and propeller. As with any system there are pros and cons and this system is no different. Preliminary evaluation shows the pros include a smaller installation footprint and increased efficiency. The cons for our boat include oversized (power) resulting in us running in ECO mode most of the time, weight of unit is as far aft as you can get, 48V versus 24V system (still reviewing) and a large than desired cut out in the bottom of the boat. Reminds me of our Nordhavn's where we have a large and thick composite hull then drill holes for thru-hulls and stabilizers.

We still need to speak with a few other manufacturers over the next few weeks before making any decision. Once we narrow down the motor we can complete the preliminary design design and phase I.

Another observation for anyone who may consider designing and building their own boat is working with someone who you are compatible with. While I have not met Paul in person (yet) I feel comfortable with him and a sense of trust. Without this type of working relationship, the project could not proceed. Fun stuff.

John

Update

The last week included multiple emails between Paul and I regarding recommendations from two additional electric motor manufacturers. To help keep track of all the information and aid in making my final decision I developed a simple spreadsheet that includes all relevant information from each supplier. One common theme I'm seeing is all three manufacturers are proposing motors larger than we need. One goes as far as saying we can operate 100% of the time in Economy mode to save battery usage. I don't see us making a final decision for another week or two.

Once we decide on the motor size and type (Pod or direct drive) we can finish the preliminary drawings before moving into phase II. This has definitely been educational and fun stuff.

Regarding the tender we have being built in Maine, last week the builder completed the Whiskey Plank. Anyone know what this is? I sure did not and thought they were just having fun with me. Turns out a Whisky Plank is the last plank installed when building a new wooden boat and the builder takes a shot of whiskey to commemorate the accomplishment. I was even provided a video depicting this celebration which is well known in the upper east coast. Last week I contracted with a local trailer manufacture to build a custom trailer for the tender. I'm hopeful shipping only the boat inside a crate will be easier and less expensive compared to shipping it on a trailer. I hope I'm correct.

John T

Update 6/28

After further consideration and discussion with Paul (designer) we both agreed the Electric Motor Pod installation is not a good fit for this boat. Despite its simplicity and ease of installation we would have to change the aft hull design, increase the size of the keel making trailering the boat more difficult which is what drove us to a custom design and the pod would be susceptible to damage during trailering. It may also be a factor when the time came to sell the boat and for someone who may want to replace the electric motor with a small diesel engine. We also ruled out one of the three suppliers due to their lack of interest to support us.

Next week should have full up quotes from the remaining two suppliers then make our decision and finish phase one drawings. A quick observation relevant to purchasing a production boat including a trawler is the builder has already made these decisions leaving the buyer with a simple decision to either remain with the stock engine or choose a larger size depending on the hull design. If memory serves me right on our three Nordhavn's there were no options and accepted the Lugger engines on the N40's as specified. On our Helmsman we did option for a larger Cummins engine (370hp versus 220hp ??) thinking we may want the power to fight strong currents in the ICW. Looking back and despite that hull being different it was likely not the right choice and over kill for how we used the boat. Fun stuff.

John

N4061 said:

After further consideration and discussion with Paul (designer) we both agreed the Electric Motor Pod installation is not a good fit for this boat. Despite its simplicity and ease of installation we would have to change the aft hull design, increase the size of the keel making trailering the boat more difficult which is what drove us to a custom design and the pod would be susceptible to damage during trailering. It may also be a factor when the time came to sell the boat and for someone who may want to replace the electric motor with a small diesel engine. We also ruled out one of the three suppliers due to their lack of interest to support us.

Next week should have full up quotes from the remaining two suppliers then make our decision and finish phase one drawings. A quick observation relevant to purchasing a production boat including a trawler is the builder has already made these decisions leaving the buyer with a simple decision to either remain with the stock engine or choose a larger size depending on the hull design. If memory serves me right on our three Nordhavn's there were no options and accepted the Lugger engines on the N40's as specified. On our Helmsman we did option for a larger Cummins engine (370hp versus 220hp ??) thinking we may want the power to fight strong currents in the ICW. Looking back and despite that hull being different it was likely not the right choice and over kill for how we used the boat. Fun stuff.

John

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It's tough following along when it's all an unveiled mystery. It's kind of a blow-by-blow of what's happening inside a black box....

Mystery Boat?

I'm not sure why this thread is coming across as any type of mystery boat since I mentioned throughout this was a not a trawler and a small (under 20') trailerable boat designed after the SLOPE's from the Netherlands. Basically an open launch in the US. The contraction will likely be cold molded, single electric motor with a back-up electric motor similar to how we mounted it on the Sandpiper. The backup motor will be stored away when not in use. The finish is to be as close to "yachty" as possible. The hull design will be full displacement for comfort both inshore and along the coast. This is where the challenge comes into play since the boat is small and will be on a trailer. I'm also insisting on a wide beam similar to trawlers. Fitting all this into a small package and still ensuring the boat has nice lines is not easy but Paul and I are getting there. Once we complete specifying the engine and running gear Paul will complete the design which I plan to share on this thread. Fun stuff and no mystery.

John

Update

The past week has been a little quiet with the holiday but Paul and I mutually agreed the electric Pod system which is very cool is not the right system for a boat that will live on a trailer. Just too much of the Pod hanging below the transom asking for trouble when trailering the boat around southern California. So we are now waiting for a quote from Vetus for a complete system including propeller and shaft sizing for the boat. Assuming we receive their quote, next week Paul will complete the drawings and phase one of this project.

Progress on the rowing tender being built in Maine continues to be swift with the primer coats now complete both inside and outside the hull. Final paint is next followed by the mahogany wood seating, transom and trim before the final details including the boats name is hand painted onto the transom. Mary decided to name the tender 2 @ Sea after her car license plate and the planned name of our next trawler. I guess you can say we are doing things backwards with building the tender prior to the boat but it doesn't matter.

This weekend we drove to Dana Point (home of PAE) and walked the docks. The new N47 (stretched N43) was still there and looked beautiful. Something to consider as we continue to think about one more trawler.

John

Boat Name

While this is not the launch, we received this photo of the tender with the name hand painted on the mahogany transom today. Fun stuff.

John

Update

After a few weeks dealing with one potential supplier of the electric motor and associated equipment we decided to pass on Vetus and focus on a US based company. While Vectus was my first choice based on their reputation in the EU and advancements with this technology, we were disappointed in their responses including being told they could not provide any pricing until later this year. Fast forward and we already received recommendations and specifications on the engine for our design from Electric Yacht. This is the same company Marshall Marine the builder of our sailboat uses for his new boats and has been pleased with their performance. The owner of Electric Yachts is located in Dana Point, CA. the same town as PAE Nordhavn headquarters. The owner is now coordinating with a couple of boat owners to let me see their recent installations.

On a side note, I picked up the new trailer today for the tender and while smaller than the one we used for the 16' Sandpiper sailboat the new one is built like a tank. Amazing how much more went into this trailer compared to the one built on the east coast by a well-known company. Even the finish is nicer for about the same price. Now we just need the boat, and we will be back on the water allowing us to escape some of this summer heat.

John

Phase I Drawings

This week I made the decision to go with Electric Yacht CA Company and their power system for the new boat. They are local to us based near Dana Point, CA. (home of PAE Nordhavn) and have a good reputation. I found Mike very easy to work with and helpful. Next step is for Paul (designer / builder) to incorporate the propeller dimensions into the hull and for me to decide on the shape of the transom. Assuming all goes well we should have Phase I completed within two weeks then it's time to sign up for Phase II construction drawings which will be a work in process during the actual build.

Paul will also be searching for different woods required for this Cold Molded project along with cost and delivery so he can provide firm pricing later this summer. Once phase II drawings are completed, I have the option of sending them out for quote or remaining with Paul for the build. Things are moving along as planned and since this is a custom build, I'm not rushing it and enjoying every step in the process.

John

Drawing Release

Below are a few drawings of the 17' Electric Launch. Looking back over the past few months I can honestly say this was not something I ever thought possible and has been a very rewarding experience (so far). Despite the small size and relatively simple systems this project provides insight and appreciation of the talent required by those who design boats for living. The amount and level of details I never thought about when purchasing a production boat have now become decision points requiring research and education. While I'm looking forward to Phase II, I expect it to be more difficult and challenging as we progress through the process.

John T.

Phase II

After a brief pause in the process due to the designer / builder focused on summer commitments we are again discussing Phase II. Yesterday I forwarded Paul a list of about 15 items that require confirmation related to the build. The build cost estimate came in a little higher than originally planned so we are still evaluating what the total cost will be including the boat, motor, drive gear, batteries, canvas and seat cushions. I recognize this is a true custom boat that you cannot compare to production model, but I still need to ensure the numbers make sense. That assumes any amount of money spent on a boat makes sense. Assuming all goes well we expect to sign the contract to build the boat within a few weeks.

Relating this project to a larger boat or trawler with greater complexity I would likely explore hiring a professional to look everything over prior to commencing the build. Even with this small project there are opportunities for things to go wrong especially when trying to manage the project from across the country. Fun stuff.

Some TF members may remember my recent post that we are considering one more trawler in the near future. While this is still in the works, we are struggling with what type of boat we really need. I think we done traveling at 6 knots and desire something that can get us from point A to point B within a few hours which on the west coast equals faster cruising speeds. Still have a long way to go identifying the boat but it's fun researching everything out there.

John

N4061 said:

Some TF members may remember my recent post that we are considering one more trawler in the near future. While this is still in the works, we are struggling with what type of boat we really need. I think we done traveling at 6 knots and desire something that can get us from point A to point B within a few hours which on the west coast equals faster cruising speeds. Still have a long way to go identifying the boat but it's fun researching everything out there.

John

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Included in your research the Beneteau Swift Trawler? Or the Palm Beach,now in the GB stable ?

Neither of those boats are on the list. Nothing against them but thinking more align the Flemming style but smaller. I need to keep the loa under 46’ so I can single handle the boat and feel comfortable. Looking overseas and found a few interesting boats. If the launch turns out well possibly a custom design but that’s a low probability at this time.

Not sure if it will help but I saw this Volvo electric drive package at a show in Beijing today. Pretty compact for 160kW or 210hp

darkside said:

Not sure if it will help but I saw this Volvo electric drive package at a show in Beijing today. Pretty compact for 160kW or 210hp

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Wow. Looks really compact for that size. Did you see what voltage?

It didn't say but my guess 600v or thereabouts

Volvo Electric

Thanks for sharing. We are seeing more and more manufactures coming out with new motors including hybrids. For the launch we decided to stay with a local supplier who has been around and is proven. Good thing about the smaller electric motors is that replacing them in the future (if required) is not as big an effort as a diesel or gas motor. I still like the set up used on some boats in the Netherlands (diesel & Electric) I mentioned earlier but view that system as more complicated than we need on this boat. It is something we will consider on a trawler or larger boat in the future. Thanks again.

John

You are probably aware of the hybrid Herley 3400 which I see is back on the market again.

https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/herley-powercat-3400-electric/300294

John, I'm not sure if you are aware that ABYC recently released E-30 which is a standard for electric propulsion in boats? As you work through this project, you might want to be sure everything complies. Since it's a new standard, some people might not be aware of it.

New Standard

twistedtree said:

John, I'm not sure if you are aware that ABYC recently released E-30 which is a standard for electric propulsion in boats? As you work through this project, you might want to be sure everything complies. Since it's a new standard, some people might not be aware of it.

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I was not aware of this, thank you for sharing. I will be sure to review the designer / builder prior to starting phase II.

Contract Signed

It's been a while since I posted but ready to re-engage with a few updates. Before talking about the electric boat I wanted to mention the rowing / tender has been working out great. An average day out includes 90 minutes of non-stop rowing from the boat ramp through the marina and harbor to the inlet before turning around. My furthest venture outside the inlet has been 1/2 mile to the entrance marker on a very clam day. Listening to my music alone on the boat while getting a workout has been great. Fall weather in San Diego is the best of the year with temperatures in the 70's and clear skies. The feel of wooden boat is special and I'm fortunate to be able to experience it.

Regarding the electric boat, yesterday I signed the production contract and submitted my first payment. Needless to say, exciting times (again) and looking forward to the build and experiencing something different. Unlike purchasing a production boat I will be involved in every step with this build.
More to follow soon....

John

Build Schedule

In case anyone is interested in following our build project, below is a summary level schedule including major milestones and deliverables I'm responsible for. As with any new build or major retrofit project having a schedule agreed to in writing between parties is important for many reasons.

Update 12/11/2023

Our journey has already proven to include a few items never incurred with any of our previous boats including locating the different woods required. Paul is planning a trip to Vermont this week to check on some white cedar for the hull laminates. He then ventures to upstate NY for some teak that was imported as beams from Hydrabad India before searching for mahogany from sustainable sources. He is also securing an updated quote for the sterntube which he wants to order.

A little more complex than running down to the local Home Depot for materials and I'm glade Paul is doing all this leg work since I could not tell the difference between any woods.

Mary I were at Dana Point Habor (home of Nordhavn) this weekend and noticed a custom-built open launch similar to the one we designed. It was good for Mary to see what our boat will look at in the water as we discussed the differences with our build. She already decided she wants our boat to have the same color blue hull as our Sandpiper catboat. We purchased a RAL color fan with about 200 different colors including the one she wants so ordering the paint later shouldn't be an issue. With the decision made on hull color the next step will be to identify what type and color wood we use for the coaming that comes in contact with the blue hull. We obviously want a contrast so something lighter that will transition to the dark mahogany. While I like the darker woods Mary like the lighter teak and keeps reminding me we live in California not Maine so keep the boat looking modern. Fun stuff.