Dear broker- it's not you, it's me?

proudsailor · May 24, 2023

Been actively looking for over a year. Fell in love with a trawler last year that the broker said was "ready for the islands" only to find out she wasn't ready to leave with me anywhere, nor could she (survey sea trial couldn't get her out of the marina). Found another beauty this week advertised by a reputable broker as both engines w/ "recent major overhaul" and listing only the hours since overhaul. Informed said reputable broker I want to ask for her hand in marriage after a description of the major overhaul (an overhaul makes better marriage material, right?) for which a receipt literally only saying "repair of port engine" was provided. Was subsequently told I had enough detail, now either propose or go away.

Am I being too picky? Are my expectations in my broker relationships too much? Can't we get to know each other even a little bit before spending money on an engagement ring? She's so pretty, but I know looks aren't everything. Can she go the distance? I like them older and wiser, but to jump right in without even knowing her health seems like a mistake. Maybe I need to play hard to get? Since Ann Landers is dead, I'm forced to seek relationship advice here. :banghead:

It's me, isn't it? I'm not ready for a this relationship, am I.....

SteveK · May 24, 2023

proudsailor said:
......................

It's me, isn't it? I'm not ready for a this relationship, am I.....

Probably its you, but I would like to get to know you better to confirm it. :rofl:

proudsailor · May 24, 2023

SteveK said:
Probably its you, but I would like to get to know you better to confirm it.

I'll buy you dinner, but nothing more until you show me the condition of your engines......

jgwinks · May 24, 2023

Sometimes "overhaul" means they painted it. I too would want to see documentation. Any time they won't tell you something, I'd assume they're hiding the real answer. But of course the broker only knows what the seller told them, and maybe doesn't want to bother them with a thousand questions.

SeaLion · May 24, 2023

“Ready to cruise” usually means …to the yard for months of repairs.”

We looked at a boat recently in “fantastic condition”. The dirty interior and list of issues and hillbilly “upgrades” to be resolved was breathtaking.

Don’t get discouraged! You have to ignore the “salesman’s puffing” and look carefully for reality.

Pete Meisinger · May 24, 2023

A complete overhaul can cost close to $20,000. It does not add that amount to the value of the boat but it is a great selling point to ask near Blue Book.

There must be documentation to back it up. Anyone can say "rebuilt' !!

pete

SteveK · May 24, 2023

Pete Meisinger said:
A complete overhaul can cost close to $20,000. It does not add that amount to the value of the boat but it is a great selling point to ask near Blue Book.

There must be documentation to back it up. Anyone can say "rebuilt' !!

pete

$20,000, that is a good point, show me the invoices for the overhaul, those should be available to a buyer if advertised as such

Don L · May 24, 2023

The engine in the dockmaster at my marina's boat was "frozen". He told me he had had that engine "rebuilt" recently. So he paid paid big $$$$ to have the engine rebuilt again and then put the boat up up for sale. Boat sold and passed the sea trails and money changed hands. The new owner got the boat 3 hours away and the main seal blew out. So the new owner called the mechanic who just did rebuild and the guy says "Now that I think about it I may have used the wrong seal. I can come fix it for $7k."

So to me "engine recently rebuilt" means nothing more than "engine has had problems".

BTW - to me there is no reason to not get your own broker when looking to buy a boat. It shouldn't cost you anything and a selling broker normally responds to another broker better and with more info that they do to a "buyer" that if they don't have a broker are considered "tire kickers"

hytedin · May 24, 2023

I wish more people would fully disclose and provide accurate documentation at initial inquiry.

The “used car” approach of some brokers and sellers is grotesque.

The “take it or leave it” mentality can’t be sustained forever.

Eventually the market will cool, covid inventory will return, and lots of half-cared for boats will enter the market.

Sadly, dockage doesn’t seem to retreat to earlier norms.

Keep looking!
Keep asking!
Make offers and be willing to walk away!
Find a surveyor that will split the survey process so you’re not on the way to a hauling out hours before transferring funds. The extra survey cost will save you in wasted yard fees.

Now, this is not to say all sellers and brokers are like above. But, no boat is worth being swindled or wasting money.

Now, in deference to sellers, a lot of people are tire kickers. And, a buyer needs to understand the value of a boat to not be insulting and time wasting too.

Finally, watch the forums of various boat types. Good boats are often listed there first, or we’ll known by that community.

Admitted, this is fully my opinion. My last three purchases and sales have been satisfactory. In each sale I provided a bundle of true documentation, and all surveys I had on hand.

psneeld · May 24, 2023

Just about everything on a used boat is a crapshoot. Warranties on new boats even ony help you get some money back of major failures.

Don't think you are ever going to get a good deal on a used boat and you will never be disappointed.

proudsailor · May 24, 2023

Don L said:
BTW - to me there is no reason to not get your own broker when looking to buy a boat. It shouldn't cost you anything and a selling broker normally responds to another broker better and with more info that they do to a "buyer" that if they don't have a broker are considered "tire kickers"

Thanks- using buyer help who has been the middle man. Still the response we get...

BruceK · May 24, 2023

A "buyers broker" paid by the seller but only if you buy, isn`t fully independent.

High Wire · May 24, 2023

Agree with crapshoot. Your eyes, your surveyor, your money, your risk.

Eli27 · May 24, 2023

Yeah, i just went through that. Broker pushing the sale and buyer pushing the sale before boat was completed to agreed upon state. At the end buyer backed out of deal. And between money out of pocket for down payments on surveyor and marina charge for lift and my time spent at motel cost me over 2k.

I hate this looking for a boat $hit. People think they got the greatest boat in the greatest conditions and everything is perfect but a couple of "little" things and you cant get them to put water in the tanks to check the tanks and water system in the boat. Make ya wonder why.

Oh and remember,,, my price is firm. No negotiation on price.

Yep, what i learned is this,,, Price is firm you say, sure, no problem. Fix all the "little" things you say it needs and ill cut you a check as soon as the surveyor says yeah not a bad little boat,, good luck!

The worst thing about it is the waste of time it causes. Especially when you have an expiration date. That makes it suck even more.

BruceK · May 25, 2023

From another thread I thought the US boat market was no longer a "sellers market", but posts above suggest seller/broker truculence continues. I`m not in the market but here(Australia), going into winter, from adverts and "price adjustments(=drops) our market seems normalized, maybe tending towards buyers market.
When boat hunting you kiss a lot of toads before finding your princess.

Bmarler · May 25, 2023

I find that boats are similar to good women. The best ones seem to find you when you least expect it. That’s been my experience anyway.

Rufus · May 25, 2023

I live in Texas and our boat is for sale on the Great Lakes. A few weeks ago a "buyer" looked at the boat with the broker. The next day he calls me (got my name from a tag the storage facility had placed on the boat) and asks if I would mind if he and his son spent a day on the boat without the broker. I agreed. When I got to the boat a week later I learned from friends in the building that he had made multiple visits snooping around, going through my personal papers, and conducting his own "tap" inspection of the hull. He and his son left tracks from dirty shoes all over the boat (inside and out), and then started a "what about this, what about that" e-mail third degree about piddly crap. I wasted days corresponding with this loser before he finally went away. The buyer segment is full of cheap skate jerks. Stop whining.

sunchaser · May 25, 2023

One quick look inside the ER reveals a lot for attentive and knowing eyes. On a good brand 4 stroke diesel a rebuild on a less than 20 year old engine indicates poor maintenance at some point if hours less than 4-6 thousand.

The real action in the boat market is the buy and sell of unlisted vessels. All boats sell at some point. Find that vessel where the owner of a known cream puff is for a variety reasons ready to move on.

Slugs abound, cream puffs don't. Spotting the difference is the crux of boat buying. Brokers or not, a quality boat stands out, no sales BS is needed.

twistedtree · May 25, 2023

Rufus said:
I live in Texas and our boat is for sale on the Great Lakes. A few weeks ago a "buyer" looked at the boat with the broker. The next day he calls me (got my name from a tag the storage facility had placed on the boat) and asks if I would mind if he and his son spent a day on the boat without the broker. I agreed. When I got to the boat a week later I learned from friends in the building that he had made multiple visits snooping around, going through my personal papers, and conducting his own "tap" inspection of the hull. He and his son left tracks from dirty shoes all over the boat (inside and out), and then started a "what about this, what about that" e-mail third degree about piddly crap. I wasted days corresponding with this loser before he finally went away. The buyer segment is full of cheap skate jerks. Stop whining.

This is the other side of the problem. There are people wasting other people's time on both sides of these deals, and it makes it really difficult for legitimate buyers and sellers to find each other. In theory, brokers help with this sifting and sorting, but many seem to only make the situation worse.

Pete Meisinger · May 25, 2023

I would hesitate to let a potential buyer full access to my boat. There should be someone with them.

pete

Jorgeinseal · May 25, 2023

Don't be discouraged, it's them not you. We ran into salespeople who "didn't know" answers to our questions so we walked away from many boats until we found a knowledgeable salesperson. Took us six months to find.

twistedtree · May 25, 2023

What’s the best way for someone selling a boat to keep tabs on the broker to see how they are handling inquiries? If I were selling a boat I would want to be sure the broker isn’t scaring away prospects. Unless of course I’m intentionally trying to shield/distance myself in the sale of a junker.

rgano · May 25, 2023

The buyer of my Grand Banks 42 and his friend spent two nights aboard the boat before purchase because there were NO hotel rooms available in this tourist mecca that weekend. But the boat was moored in my backyard, and I was down there with them except during sleeping hours. I can say with certainty that I would not have agreed to anybody being aboard the boat without me being very nearby. They a arrived on Saturday and sailed away with the cruise-ready boat on Monday on a 600-mile delivery to the new owner's home. Everybody happy; they made it ok; and we talked for years as he had questions or told me of improvements. Cream puffs with support are there but rare.

SeaLion · May 25, 2023

rgano said:
The buyer of my Grand Banks 42 and his friend spent two nights aboard the boat before purchase because there were NO hotel rooms available in this tourist mecca that weekend. But the boat was moored in my backyard, and I was down there with them except during sleeping hours. I can say with certainty that I would not have agreed to anybody being aboard the boat without me being very nearby. They a arrived on Saturday and sailed away with the cruise-ready boat on Monday on a 600-mile delivery to the new owner's home. Everybody happy; they made it ok; and we talked for years as he had questions or told me of improvements. Cream puffs with support are there but rare.

What a nice story, Rich!

When I sold my last boat, the buyer saw her condition and bought without a survey or sea trial. I thought he was crazy, though I was flattered.

Choices · May 25, 2023

My story is similar. We could not close cause of storm in gulf so we slept on his boat. In morning we closed and took off in my boat.

He monitored our return and next year came to see all our improvements.

I did not haggle, his price was fair. She has been a great boat.

O C Diver · May 25, 2023

A rebuilt engine without a transferable warranty is of no value. If I were buying a boat with a rebuilt engine, there would need to be an invoice from a reputable rebuilder that specialized in those engines or that engine manufacturer. Alternatively, I would require a hold back on the purchase price until I'd put 100 hours on the engine.

Ted

O C Diver · May 25, 2023

proudsailor said:
Been actively looking for over a year. Fell in love with a trawler last year that the broker said was "ready for the islands" only to find out she wasn't ready to leave with me anywhere, nor could she (survey sea trial couldn't get her out of the marina). Found another beauty this week advertised by a reputable broker as both engines w/ "recent major overhaul" and listing only the hours since overhaul. Informed said reputable broker I want to ask for her hand in marriage after a description of the major overhaul (an overhaul makes better marriage material, right?) for which a receipt literally only saying "repair of port engine" was provided. Was subsequently told I had enough detail, now either propose or go away.

Am I being too picky? Are my expectations in my broker relationships too much? Can't we get to know each other even a little bit before spending money on an engagement ring? She's so pretty, but I know looks aren't everything. Can she go the distance? I like them older and wiser, but to jump right in without even knowing her health seems like a mistake. Maybe I need to play hard to get? Since Ann Landers is dead, I'm forced to seek relationship advice here.

It's me, isn't it? I'm not ready for a this relationship, am I.....

Clearly what you need is a Shadchan, not a used boat salesman.

Ted

hmason · May 25, 2023

Wow Ted. You sent me to google with that one.

BruceK · May 25, 2023

twistedtree said:
What’s the best way for someone selling a boat to keep tabs on the broker to see how they are handling inquiries? If I were selling a boat I would want to be sure the broker isn’t scaring away prospects. Unless of course I’m intentionally trying to shield/distance myself in the sale of a junker.

In a brief post retirement time in real estate, we would tell a seller to check us out by sending a friend undercover to an "open for inspection" asking questions etc to gauge the sales persons competence, knowledge, helpfulness etc . A colleague who listed the property had the seller I`d not met do just that. I recalled a couple asking to use the toilet, I said fine, comes under checking the plumbing but please, leave it clean and tidy. I passed the check.

twistedtree · May 26, 2023

BruceK said:
In a brief post retirement time in real estate, we would tell a seller to check us out by sending a friend undercover to an "open for inspection" asking questions etc to gauge the sales persons competence, knowledge, helpfulness etc . A colleague who listed the property had the seller I`d not met do just that. I recalled a couple asking to use the toilet, I said fine, comes under checking the plumbing but please, leave it clean and tidy. I passed the check.

That's the best way I can think of two. It just requires a boat-savvy friend help you out.

Or better yet, before you list with a broker, have someone inquire about another similar boat that they are already listing. The hope would be to check out the broker before you list with them rather than after.

Dear broker- it's not you, it's me?

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