20mm nylon snubber failure - well not quite.

Not a bad idea Simi. Short leader of Dyneema or even just old-fashioned chain, pretty much eliminates the chafe guard-fire hose part of the equation.

I normally don't have any chafe protection on my lines. I make sure that my deck chocks that my line runs thru is clean and smooth. I check my lines at every visit if I'm at the docks. If I'm on the hook or a mooring ball I check several times a day and before bed. I'll reposition lines if the water has been bumpy and there has been plenty movement if only to change points of strain. I don't like not seeing the rope covered by the chafe protection.

Line heats up under strain. Particularly bad if covered and cycling strain/no strain. Some would argue it weakens line over time. Others say covers trap salt crystals and dirt. They say those can cut the fibers of line when it cycles strain/no strain. In spite of this have used discarded fire hose at times. Nylon isn’t abrasion resistant and will chafe quickly and badly. Fortunately not that expensive so can be replaced without a mortgage. Ideally a snubber run should have no chafe points so need no line protection but sometimes unavoidable. I purchased some very thin bendable SS plates with adhesive on the back. That does provide a very smooth surface and allows avoiding a covering. I do play a hose on dock lines whenever I can. In the tropics then spray them with bug killer (bop) and after it rains. No cockroaches.

Hippocampus said:

Line heats up under strain. Particularly bad if covered and cycling strain/no strain. Some would argue it weakens line over time. Others say covers trap salt crystals and dirt. They say those can cut the fibers of line when it cycles strain/no strain. In spite of this have used discarded fire hose at times. Nylon isn’t abrasion resistant and will chafe quickly and badly. Fortunately not that expensive so can be replaced without a mortgage. Ideally a snubber run should have no chafe points so need no line protection but sometimes unavoidable. I purchased some very thin bendable SS plates with adhesive on the back. That does provide a very smooth surface and allows avoiding a covering. I do play a hose on dock lines whenever I can. In the tropics then spray them with bug killer (bop) and after it rains. No cockroaches.

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I use the Davis Chafe Protectors. They are heavy duty nylon with Velcro to hold them in place. They will let water into the line they are protecting so it helps keep the lines cooler and help prevent overheating of the line. I have not had the nylon covers get any significant wear. But they are sacrificial anyway. They are simple to put on and I have never had them come loose.

Comodave said:

I use the Davis Chafe Protectors. They are heavy duty nylon with Velcro to hold them in place. They will let water into the line they are protecting so it helps keep the lines cooler and help prevent overheating of the linee.

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Again, only any good if you have rain
Which we have not

Hippocampus said:

Ideally a snubber run should have no chafe points so need no line protection but sometimes unavoidable.

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Ours runs over a shiny, smooth roller made from some form of hard plastic of about 4 inch radius.
There is nothing there that is abrasive

I think it's a point load thing

The Dyneema seems to be handling it fine, just a bit freaky seeing this big meaty 20mm ending and pencil thin dyneema going over the roller.

Bucket of water???

Comodave said:

Bucket of water???

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Sleep?

We have a deck hose..

Simi 60 said:

Sleep?

We have a deck hose..

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If you soak it before you go to bed it will likely stay wet most of the night. If not when you get up to check the anchor wet it down again. You do get up to check the anchor, right?

Comodave said:

If you soak it before you go to bed it will likely stay wet most of the night. If not when you get up to check the anchor wet it down again.

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But if using salt water it could be argued that salt becomes an abrasive in itself

If using dyneema there will be no water retention anyway, but it also has superior chafe/abrasion resistance.

You do get up to check the anchor, right?

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Nope, it's way down there doing its thing, but I do check the snubber on occasion during a prolonged strong wind period
It's how I picked up on the issues in the first place

With that bend radius I don’t think you have point loading problem. I think it was a simply a two snubber night and you only had one out. That’s exactly what three strand does when it’s overworked.

I think it's a point load thing

Think you’re right. If so perhaps the cover isn’t needed and then you could see when to replace before the 2am snap and wake up call .

Would a larger diameter roller decrease point loading? I’ve only use two snubbers with neither over a roller. Is that another way to avoid this?

Simi 60 said:

Noticed the 20mm nylon anchor snubber looking a bit weird.
This is the short daily use one, not the rarely used storm snubber.
Slid the protective chafe tube back and found this.
Rope is still clearly in good condition appearance wise, protected from sun and hose has not chafed through.
It's a new one for me, never seen Nylon do this before.

I spliced this one in Feb 2021
Need to replace more often it would seem.

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IMO:
Tension on an anchor rode at the bow will vary widely.
As the boat swings left and right, the extreme maximums will be met.
Then the minimum will be in between the two.

Whether we are trying to reduce:
- chafe on the line, OR
- "temperature" of the rode (wet or dry) taking a sharp turn
- loads upon the cleats or windlass and rode (which fail at extreme maximums)

... The concept of increasing "stretch" (to me) has merit... it should not be discounted. The "average" load over time (minutes or hours) is the same... however the variability between measurable minimums and measurable maximums will be reduced significantly, WITH the presence of some stretch.
I think in some circles this is called DAMPENING effect.

Similar to a fuel gauge that is radically going up and down as the boat pitches and rocks... [physical or electronic] dampening makes the actual fuel gauge show the more accurate "average" level. Elasticity in the rode, similarly, brings the stresses and loads more to the "average" load than the extremes as a boat is swinging left and right due to current or wind or both.

I am not personally aware of any truly scientific research that compares the "all chain" rode WITH a stretchy snubber VS A some chain with some nylon rode (at different proportions to evaluate best case scenario).

The heavier catenary of all-chain rode to me introduces the equivalent of shock absorber characteristics, while also maximizing the chance that the anchor stays completely horizontal in its "angle of attack".

So, a snubber design with additional "shock absorption" characteristics has great merit, IMO.

The *most* important purpose of a snubber, most would agree is to "baby" the strains and stresses on the windlass. They are expensive to replace, and good examples of pain in the ass projects as well!

But, I say, let's not think adding elasticity "somehow" does not have value to minimizing the stresses on our vessel and its ground tackle system.

https://shellerina.com/2020/09/21/splicing-8-plait/

Ray

That happened to us once. We had 2 5/8’ lines running thru the hawsers with no chafe protection, but the sharp bend split on of the lines. I switched to 3/4’ lines and went direct to the cleats bypassed the sharp bend of the hawsers and haven’t had any troubles since.

Have put those silly expensive SS adhesive backed rectangles on the rails. Even going directly to the cleats you can get chafe

Capt R,
Thanks for that. My thoughts:
Reducing the tramping at anchor in a blow is part of what an anchor bridle can do.

Reducing tramping reduces the load put to the catenary anchor chain at the end of the boat's swing. So I am working on a solution for that, some sort of riding sail that will suit my boat. The goal being to keep some catenary in the chain during those 35/40 knot blows, which is a big part of the damping effect you mention. And deploy more chain when I can (duh!)

Another thing that might work to improve damping would be deploying an "Alaska sleeping pill" along the chain to maintain catenary damping. I haven't tried that yet, my concern being retrieving another piece of hardware from over the bow in a blow if my anchor drags anyway.

I've seen some reference for use of weights on anchor rode, it effectively improves apparent scope for a given length of deployed chain. That could be useful where I anchor up here in the PNW as some anchorages don't really allow me to deploy to a large scope number.

Simi 60 said:

Noticed the 20mm nylon anchor snubber looking a bit weird.
This is the short daily use one, not the rarely used storm snubber.
Slid the protective chafe tube back and found this.
Rope is still clearly in good condition appearance wise, protected from sun and hose has not chafed through.
It's a new one for me, never seen Nylon do this before.

I spliced this one in Feb 2021
Need to replace more often it would seem.

Click to expand...

Over the years your picture resembles others I have seen usually from dock ties with a sleeve. AS others have said it is the sleeve wearing on the line and doing what it is supposed to prevent. Don't use sleeves so never had this.

Kellets may improve holding and mild surge but tend to have limited effect on hunting. Hanging a length of chain from the bow so it drags on the bottom or a modest sized mushroom with just enough line to drag but not set tends to work better.

Unfortunately even with a well set up bridal some boats hunt more than others. Do what you can.