Portable Night Vision Options

Hi all,

We are looking for inexpensive night vision options but not ready to invest in a permanent installation on our boat. We will save that for our "forever boat" some time in the future.

Our present situation is that we occasionally do some night cruising near our home in the Pacific Northwest. This may involve leaving for a weekend getaway on a Friday evening after work and cruising a few hours past sunset into the pitch dark, then anchoring in a dark anchorage. On moonless nights it can be very hard to see and we are most concerned with the risk of hitting a log or other floating object. (There is a lot of that in the Pacific Northwest). Secondary issue would be having a look around in the anchorage once we arrive.

We are potentially looking for a handheld IR device, which would be relatively inexpensive and we could use for other purposes and/or take with us if we move on to a different boat. Looking for any experience or feedback in that regard:

- I understand IR / thermal imaging technology is the way to go, as opposed to image intensification which still relies on light and is less effective
- We are looking at one called the FLIR Ocean Scout. Anybody with experience using this or anything similar? Is it practical for picking up small floating objects?
https://ca.binnacle.com/p11323/FLIR...eld-of-View-432-0012-22-00S/product_info.html
- Any other suggestions or experience?
- Binoc vs monocular?
- Image stabilization - is it available?
- Can it be mounted and connected to a display or tablet/phone?
- Some people told me that there is a lot of tech available in hunting/outdoor merchandise. Not sure what would be most appropriate or if I'm better sticking to something marketed for marine use like the FLIR Ocean Scout. Again, any experience or suggestions by others would be helpful.

Thanks very much

I have a $50 infrared ptz camera on wifi that works well inside at night. Does not like looking through windshield.
Maybe try a wired one to monitor.

At night I am on flybridge. The windshield is not clear enough from inside to see logs. IMO.

We have a Syonix (sp?). It hooks up via Bluetooth to our IPad so you get a larger image. It isn’t IR though. Works pretty well.

Look up FLir and have a look through their offerings. They used to offer handheld and monocular operation.
I have no idea if they still offer those or the cost but look them up.

Look at night vision attachments for cell phones too.

rherten said:

Hi all,



We are looking for inexpensive night vision options but not ready to invest in a permanent installation on our boat. We will save that for our "forever boat" some time in the future.



Our present situation is that we occasionally do some night cruising near our home in the Pacific Northwest. This may involve leaving for a weekend getaway on a Friday evening after work and cruising a few hours past sunset into the pitch dark, then anchoring in a dark anchorage. On moonless nights it can be very hard to see and we are most concerned with the risk of hitting a log or other floating object. (There is a lot of that in the Pacific Northwest). Secondary issue would be having a look around in the anchorage once we arrive.



We are potentially looking for a handheld IR device, which would be relatively inexpensive and we could use for other purposes and/or take with us if we move on to a different boat. Looking for any experience or feedback in that regard:



- I understand IR / thermal imaging technology is the way to go, as opposed to image intensification which still relies on light and is less effective

….



Thanks very much

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More complicated than that. II can work better if window glass is in the way. I have used combo II and FLIR in same instrument. Might still be mil availability, not sure.

Comodave said:

We have a Syonix (sp?). It hooks up via Bluetooth to our IPad so you get a larger image. It isn’t IR though. Works pretty well.

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We also purchased a Sionxy low light camera. As Comodave stated, its not IR, but still for the price point has been pretty effective.

We had similar reasons... PNW based, leaving on Fri even and arriving in dark. Did it in Roche Harbor one night and dodging all the anchored boats and pots was ...well... tense.

I added this to a mount, and remote view on an ipad. Now, when it works, its been great. Doesnt need much light to give good view. However, we have problems where it disconnects a LOT from the ipad and have to reboot the device and app to get it going again. This makes it where i dont use it as much as i would like. Will likely bite the bullet and get a full FLIR in the next year or so.

JP, check this thread out re your SiOnyx connection issues:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/sionyx-62579-2.html

some general advice and suggestions based on research.

IR/thermal imaging technology: Yes, IR/thermal imaging technology is the way to go for night vision devices as it can detect heat signatures and doesn't rely on ambient light.

FLIR Ocean Scout: The FLIR Ocean Scout is a popular and reliable handheld thermal imaging camera designed specifically for marine use. It can detect small floating objects and provide clear images in total darkness.

Other suggestions: Some other popular handheld thermal imaging cameras for marine use include the Raymarine T200 and the Seek Thermal Reveal PRO. Both of these devices are also designed for outdoor use and can be used for a variety of purposes.

Binoc vs monocular: The choice between binoculars or a monocular depends on personal preference and intended use. Binoculars provide a wider field of view, while a monocular is more compact and easier to carry.

Image stabilization: Some thermal imaging cameras have built-in image stabilization, which can help reduce motion blur and provide clearer images.

Mounting and connectivity: Some thermal imaging cameras can be mounted and connected to a display

Will a log be visible to IR if it is the same temperature as the water ?

11111energy said:

some general advice and suggestions based on research.

IR/thermal imaging technology: Yes, IR/thermal imaging technology is the way to go for night vision devices as it can detect heat signatures and doesn't rely on ambient light.

FLIR Ocean Scout: The FLIR Ocean Scout is a popular and reliable handheld thermal imaging camera designed specifically for marine use. It can detect small floating objects and provide clear images in total darkness.

Other suggestions: Some other popular handheld thermal imaging cameras for marine use include the Raymarine T200 and the Seek Thermal Reveal PRO. Both of these devices are also designed for outdoor use and can be used for a variety of purposes.

Binoc vs monocular: The choice between binoculars or a monocular depends on personal preference and intended use. Binoculars provide a wider field of view, while a monocular is more compact and easier to carry.

Image stabilization: Some thermal imaging cameras have built-in image stabilization, which can help reduce motion blur and provide clearer images.

Mounting and connectivity: Some thermal imaging cameras can be mounted and connected to a display

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I know nothing about this topic but it raises a question. Why would you want thermal imaging? How would that help you see things in the water that are the same temperature?

On a boat delivery in the short days of November one year, we had use of an Ex military night vision unit. It could be handheld like binoculars or strapped to your head and worn. It had a single objective lens and two eyepieces: monocular in, binocular to you.

IT WAS AAAMAZING.

I still am struck by how well it worked. To some degree, better than daylight but no magnification of size. I think it intensified the existing light. I’m not sure what light it was intensifying because it looked pitch black! If there was light ahead, like car headlights or street lamps on shore, these disrupted your view horribly because it intensifies them too.

In my experience the flir didn't really pick up objects in the water. We didn't test with logs but the flir was pretty useless at picking up large commercial crab floats that were temperature acclimated so I imagine logs wouldn't be a significant signature in the thermal.

Also, with night vision people worry about ambient light being necessary to work. We are not talking about a ton of ambient light here. In normal analog image intensification night vision systems even ambient starlight produces enough IR to aid the tube. I dont have any experience with ccd based sionyx type systems, but normal night vision is pretty astonishing as to its effectiveness.

I fail to see why FLIR is recommended if it won't pick out objects in the water, like logs, lobster pots, navigational bouys, etc. Wouldn't those be the main reasons for night vision? I've never used any and am probably missing something, so please educate me.

backinblue said:

I fail to see why FLIR is recommended if it won't pick out objects in the water, like logs, lobster pots, navigational bouys, etc. Wouldn't those be the main reasons for night vision? I've never used any and am probably missing something, so please educate me.

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Its possible to make a case for either one, or neither.

I bought a handheld Sionyx over the winter. With the boat yet to be delivered I can't speak to on the water experience, only stepping into a suburban backyard. Such conditions are ideal with ambient light from homes, and in those conditions it works great.

There are use cases beyond floating debris and crab pots. Buoy markers that have been moved and yet to be updated on your MFD charts, for example.

In theory, the IR versions read temperature differences. Since things like buoys will tend to be still warm from the day's sunlight into midnight they are said to be useful at the end of the day than before dawn. I can't vouch for that. Heavy mist / fog / rain will cool everything, so said to be less useful in those conditions.

LL versions of course need light, so rain / fog / mist hurts performance too. But, one can get an "illuminator" which is an infrared floodlight that paints light ahead that can be read. They have the added advantage of being readable through glass, which IR cannot do. You can mount one inside the pilothouse facing ahead.

In any case, none are perfect. Sometimes helpful, sometimes not. If not, you are no worse off than someone who doesn't have the equipment. If in good conditions, you are ahead of the game. Conditions such as entering a harbor / marina at night some ambient light is likely to be present.

Just don't expect perfection in all conditions.

Edit: For man overboard situations I'd expect the IR versions to be best.

In my earlier link within Post #8 I provided a fairly detailed write up on using a SiOnyx Camera for a season on the boat if anyone is interested. These cameras are very good, but like all things have + and -.

Fletcher500 said:

In my earlier link within Post #8 I provided a fairly detailed write up on using a SiOnyx Camera for a season on the boat if anyone is interested. These cameras are very good, but like all things have + and -.

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In fact, it was your comments that persuaded me.

I tested state of the art military night vision, stabilization and FLIR many years ago. At the time they were all rookies in the field....all have been improved greatly, but the physics haven't changed, just the tech.

I gave a lecture to SR USCG officers on Law Enforcement at sea and how these technologies can help.

My bottom line was that when computers get beyond the Atari/Pong stage, tech companies will be able to combine the benefits of all 3, because each alone has some serious limitations.

True they all individually can be a huge improvement over human eyes, but depending on one over another to improve detection of certain hazards just isn't going to happen.

So till a combo of those techs is affordable to boaters, pick what your highest and most frequent need is and use the tech best suited to detect it.

FLIR works great for seeing MOBs and boats. I wouldn’t think it would work as well for logs and crab pots.

psneeld said:

I tested state of the art military night vision, stabilization and FLIR many years ago. At the time they were all rookies in the field....all have been improved greatly, but the physics haven't changed, just the tech.

I gave a lecture to SR USCG officers on Law Enforcement at sea and how these technologies can help.

My bottom line was that when computers get beyond the Atari/Pong stage, tech companies will be able to combine the benefits of all 3, because each alone has some serious limitations.

True they all individually can be a huge improvement over human eyes, but depending on one over another to improve detection of certain hazards just isn't going to happen.

So till a combo of those techs is affordable to boaters, pick what your highest and most frequent need is and use the tech best suited to detect it.

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In 2006 I found myself in the USMC night vision lab at Quantico. Brand new. Dial a brightness level controllers. I tested an unmounted FLIR device in zero light. I could see clearly cardboard boxes on a table. Not sure what the temperature differential was but no doubt sub 1 degree.
Another data point on FLIR. At a trade show, looked at peoples footsteps dissipating on carpet after 5 seconds or so. This data is now a decade and a half old.

diver dave said:

In 2006 I found myself in the USMC night vision lab at Quantico. Brand new. Dial a brightness level controllers. I tested an unmounted FLIR device in zero light. I could see clearly cardboard boxes on a t³able. Not sure what the temperature differential was but no doubt sub 1 degree.
Another data point on FLIR. At a trade show, looked at peoples footsteps dissipating on carpet after 5 seconds or so. This data is now a decade and a half old.

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True but when and where does the average boater need help and there is zero ambient light?

Few spots in the Western Hemisphere in sight of land have I experienced total lack of light.

Both are unbelievable tech... just different pros and cons.

psneeld said:

True but when and where does the average boater need help and there is zero ambient light?

Few spots in the Western Hemisphere in sight of land have I experienced total lack of light.

Both are unbelievable tech... just different pros and cons.

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We boated to an u/w cave today. Very dark inside[emoji41]. Got ur point tho.

Another place to search out some products are hunting & shooting forums. Night hunters need a flip up/down system that straps to their heads. Those systems often are made by companies that also offer non-hunting versions for RVs, trucks, etc...


If I recall GunsAmerica did a few reviews over the years - search there too.

We used IR Binoculars with a full width viewing screen. Set it on the dash.

Here's the description from Amazon on the $105 IR Binocs.

Night Vision Goggles - 4K Night Vision Binoculars for Adults, 3'' Large Screen Binoculars can Save Photo and Video with 32GB Memory Card & Rechargeable Lithium Battery. Has anti-shake and other stuff.

4000 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery
The Infrared high-tech night vision binoculars feature an 850 NM infrared illuminator which allows you to view animals in pitch dark for hours. They don’t require any AA batteries, you can connect the USB cable to the DC5V adapter or connect the power bank to charge. Very convenient!

So, you can plug this in and keep it on for as long as you're traveling at night.

We had a similar set for $350. Prices dropped dramatically since then.

I set them on the dash on a rubber pad on our Albin 28 TE and it would view just like another screen. Could magnify, sharpen focus.

If you have to hold one, your arm will tire after a short while.

Greg S said:

On a boat delivery in the short days of November one year, we had use of an Ex military night vision unit. It could be handheld like binoculars or strapped to your head and worn. It had a single objective lens and two eyepieces: monocular in, binocular to you.

IT WAS AAAMAZING.

I still am struck by how well it worked. To some degree, better than daylight but no magnification of size. I think it intensified the existing light. I’m not sure what light it was intensifying because it looked pitch black! If there was light ahead, like car headlights or street lamps on shore, these disrupted your view horribly because it intensifies them too.

Click to expand...

That was an image intensifier, not IR. Blooming caused by ANY light source is the bane of II devices.

I have hunted feral hogs with both IR and II devices and MUCH prefer the IR. It was like looking at a photo negative of the whole scene - $7,000.

HypnoBob;

Is this the one you have:

https://www.amazon.com/Night-Vision-Goggles-Binoculars-Rechargeable/dp/B0B12CD9YV/ref=zg_bs_3226130011_sccl_1/136-2535463-0739643?th=1


Bruce

Those products are a deal, but ... If it uses IR would it see through the helm window? Seems like setting an IR camera on the dash would pick up its own reflection from the window.

https://shellerina.com/2022/09/21/late-start-from-atlantic-city-to-cape-may-245pm-departure/

https://shellerina.com/2021/10/15/low-light-cameras-help/

I have had a FLIR Ocean Scout for several years. It works great for seeing everything in many circumstances. I believe it would be very useful to spot a warm body in the water, but minimally so to see any inert floating object unless it projected significantly above the ocean surface. The temperature difference between most floating objects and the water itself would likely be insufficient to generate a strong signature. Add waves and it’s even more improbable. Seeing the shoreline, anchored boats, docks etc. is very good. It will not work through glass of any kind as this mitigates the detectable temperature difference between external objects. I have mounted the unit on top of a windshield frame and viewed it through a portable DVD player screen, other monitors could be similarly used with excellent result. Two headaches with this application … the Scout automatically shuts down after about 5 minutes so it must be continuously reactivated AND the unit must be outside so reaching to reactivate it guarantees weather exposure.