Lift Strap Vendor?

FWT · Feb 25, 2023

Time for me to get serious about organizing lift straps for the dingy.

I want to explore something that will work for my needs better than one of the sets sold on the basic marine retailers (Fisheries, Defender, West).

Who is your favorite supplier?

bkcorwin · Feb 25, 2023

I would go with Dyneema. You can have most sailboat rigging places do the splicing for you if you aren't comfortable with it. Its really easy to deal with vs 2" strapping.

What we did the first time was buy some adequately sized rope and worked out the lengths needed to balance the dinghy. Then took that to the rigging shop and had them duplicate in dyneema.

For the second time, i just did the splicing myself.

Its a nice set up and packs down small.

FWT · Feb 25, 2023

bkcorwin said:
I would go with Dyneema. You can have most sailboat rigging places do the splicing for you if you aren't comfortable with it. Its really easy to deal with vs 2" strapping.

What we did the first time was buy some adequately sized rope and worked out the lengths needed to balance the dinghy. Then took that to the rigging shop and had them duplicate in dyneema.

For the second time, i just did the splicing myself.

Its a nice set up and packs down small.

Good suggestion, but I can't go there.

I have two very different requirements. 1) something that works well, and 2) something my beloved spouse feels comfortable being around.

Happy wife = happy life.

It has to not only work and carry the load, but LOOK like it is substantial enough that it won't fall while she is near it.

PennBruce · Feb 25, 2023

Funny

FWT said:
It has to not only work and carry the load, but LOOK like it is substantial enough that it won't fall while she is near it.

FWT · Feb 25, 2023

PennBruce said:
Funny

Yeah. But the truth.

I will embrace overkill, and be happy she's happy.

Now I need a vendor to put together the pieces to make something work.

marcs · Feb 25, 2023

FWT said:
Time for me to get serious about organizing lift straps for the dingy.

I want to explore something that will work for my needs better than one of the sets sold on the basic marine retailers (Fisheries, Defender, West).

Who is your favorite supplier?

Is this the type of thing you are referring to when you say "the sets sold on the basic marine retailers"? https://www.wichardamerica.com/product/4-leg-dinghy-sling/ If so, what don't you like about it so folks can offer further input (other than the price... which is around $500 more than you "need" to spend to make something safe).

guy with a boat · Feb 25, 2023

We have and love our dyneema lift harness but understand the challenge. What about having a rigging shop do it with heavier non-dyneema line, and splice the connections. You could use 5/8” line when 1/4” dyneema would do, and it would look sturdy and might even cost less.

I don’t even know who would make one out of lift straps anymore.

PennBruce · Feb 25, 2023

FWT;

By "lift straps" do you mean a bridle? My bridle is stainless steel cable. The bridles attach to the tackles that are used to raise the dinghy.

Bruce

FWT said:
Time for me to get serious about organizing lift straps for the dingy.

FWT · Feb 25, 2023

marcs said:
Is this the type of thing you are referring to when you say "the sets sold on the basic marine retailers"? https://www.wichardamerica.com/product/4-leg-dinghy-sling/ If so, what don't you like about it so folks can offer further input (other than the price... which is around $500 more than you "need" to spend to make something safe).

Here's the boat.

4aeb8e_f10da4e6b4534fc9b007b6865c2e318c~mv2.jpg

4aeb8e_d90e81980a3f4cf9a4dd91636d3c2ca0~mv2.jpg

There are no lift point eyes. The handles on the rails are used as lift points.

So for example with the lift harness you posted, the snap shackles are too small to attach to the handles. They are a big part of the cost of that harness and would need to be hacksawed off. One could make do by leaving heavier shackles around the handles, to rattle around and such when not involved in a lift.

Hoping to find a vendor selling the individual parts, and I end up with something like that, that just works on this boat. Or a custom shop that will make what I need.

The handles are 1.125 inches in diameter by the way. I need to be able to shorten down the legs to roughly 30 inches at the tightest, and up from there as I adjust the fit.

FWT · Feb 25, 2023

guy with a boat said:
We have and love our dyneema lift harness but understand the challenge. What about having a rigging shop do it with heavier non-dyneema line, and splice the connections. You could use 5/8” line when 1/4” dyneema would do, and it would look sturdy and might even cost less.

I don’t even know who would make one out of lift straps anymore.

I have my Plan A solution fashioned along those lines already. But knotted until I have the fit and balance fully worked out. The "boss" desires something that "looks" more secure. Straps seem to fit the bill. Its a small ask on her part, so if I can oblige I certainly will.

mvweebles · Feb 25, 2023

I tried Defender a few times. I think their rigging shop might be closed. I tried a couple other online riggers - radio silence.

My dinghy is a 4-point lift. I like webbing for a 4-point: front legs are one piece that wraps through the lifting ring and sewn, back legs are a second piece. Even if the thread comes undone it is still looped through the ring. I used 1-inch tubular polyester webbing and built my own. Webbing has 4200 lb breaking strength and a tracer thread to indicate overloading. I used a 1/2" x 3" ring from US Stainless. 3/8" safety harness shackles attach to the lifting eyes on the dinghy.

EDIT - i just saw your post in no lifting eyes. Maybe a thimble or ring at end of each leg and a soft shackle to connect to your handles for lifting.

For a 3-point lift, I might go with polyester double braid instead of webbing instead of pulling out the sewing machine. At 1/2" or 5/8" it's plenty strong and fairly easy to splice. I'd still go with a 1/2" lifting ring to reduce chafe. 3/8" safety shackles still.

Dyneema is incredibly strong. I just don't like the feel of it. Polyester double braid is damn strong and easy to work with.

Peter

PS - cool looking dink. Like it?

marcs · Feb 25, 2023

mvweebles said:
EDIT - i just saw your post in no lifting eyes. Maybe a thimble or ring at end of each leg and a soft shackle to connect to your handles for lifting.

Good idea, soft shackles could work well as part of a setup. If it were me I might end up over-sizing them vs what is necessary strictly for strength to make them easier to undo and to make them meet the "look sturdy" requirement.

FWT: What you shared about the dinghy makes sense, I have no other specific ideas myself.

jleonard · Feb 26, 2023

You could look at McMaster-Carr online and see if they have slings that would work for you.

Bmarler · Feb 26, 2023

I did a google search for custom rigging straps and found several vendors that could make something up.

kchace · Feb 26, 2023

Why not use some larger than necessary rope with soft shackles and beefy carabiners? My lifting "straps" are 4 x 3/8" double braided nylon - each of which has a 4000lb breaking strength. The dinghy total weight is 350lbs so even one of the lines has a 11.5:1 safety factor. Regardless of what one uses to lift a dinghy, it should never be lifted over a person or with a person in it.

Ken

mvweebles · Feb 26, 2023

Bmarler said:
I did a google search for custom rigging straps and found several vendors that could make something up.

I did that too a few months ago. I had zero responses in about 4-5 tries.

Thinking about it, given the way FWT's handles double as lift points, knowing what I know and in his Topsiders, I'd go to a marine canvas maker versus a rigger. Why? Because his handles-as-lift-points would be better served by webbing vs line. I'd use a design such as the attached where the end of each leg forms a loop vs using soft-shackles to adapt to carabiners - soft shackles are a bit expensive and just another piece of kit to lose.

Hi-quality 1" tubular webbing (HERE) is UV tolerant and has a breaking strength of 4200 lbs and a tracer to indicate over-stress.
3/8" safety shackles (HERE) have a breaking strength of almost 5000 lbs.
3/8" welded ring (HERE) has a breaking strength of over 18k lbs.

For a few hundred bucks, a custom lifting harness that is easy to stow and adapts well to the unusual lifting points of FWT's dink.

Peter

FWT · Feb 26, 2023

mvweebles said:
I did that too a few months ago. I had zero responses in about 4-5 tries.

Thinking about it, given the way FWT's handles double as lift points, knowing what I know and in his Topsiders, I'd go to a marine canvas maker versus a rigger. Why? Because his handles-as-lift-points would be better served by webbing vs line. I'd use a design such as the attached where the end of each leg forms a loop vs using soft-shackles to adapt to carabiners - soft shackles are a bit expensive and just another piece of kit to lose.

Hi-quality 1" tubular webbing (HERE) is UV tolerant and has a breaking strength of 4200 lbs and a tracer to indicate over-stress.

3/8" safety shackles (HERE) have a breaking strength of almost 5000 lbs.

3/8" welded ring (HERE) has a breaking strength of over 18k lbs.

For a few hundred bucks, a custom lifting harness that is easy to stow and adapts well to the unusual lifting points of FWT's dink.

Peter

Peter: Where did that diagram / pic come from? Its pretty close to what I'm thinking.

mvweebles · Feb 26, 2023

FWT said:
Peter: Where did that diagram / pic come from? Its pretty close to what I'm thinking.

I did a quick sketch in PowerPoint. A little cut and paste and presto.

I work for beer.

Peter

FWT · Feb 26, 2023

All: You guys are throwing out some good stuff. Rather than respond one by one I'll just do it all at once.

Soft shackles: An elegant solution in a practical sense, in so many ways. I'd go that way in an instant. Get one of the standard strap solutions like the one posted above yesterday, and attach the snap shackle to the soft shackle loop. Easy. Done. And soft shackles can be left on the handles without bang and clang around a hard shackle left on would do. HOWEVER, I judge it won't pass the test of LOOKING beefy and strong, which is the key goal here.

However, overnight it occurred to me the simple solution might well be a merge of a couple of the ideas posted above.

Get the standard strap harness posted above (or similar). Forget about cutting off and replacing the snap shackles. Instead, add some beefy looking carabiner big enough to go around the handles. The connection becomes strap-to-snap shackle-to-carabiner. If not carabiner, some other beefy snap shackle.

It has the benefit of being easily executed.

Thoughts?

marcs · Feb 26, 2023

FWT said:
Get the standard strap harness posted above (or similar). Forget about cutting off and replacing the snap shackles. Instead, add some beefy looking carabiner big enough to go around the handles. The connection becomes strap-to-snap shackle-to-carabiner. If not carabiner, some other beefy snap shackle.

I'm not stoked on having two pieces of metal hardware connecting like that at the dinghy. You would need to be sure they can't get caught at a bad metal to metal angle that puts them in a compromised weak position. Be wary of side loading, etc. Plus pinch points for fingers.

I like Peter's diagram or anything that avoids metal hardware at the handles.

I bought the Wichard SP400 two years ago (only $294.98 at the time!) because I was in a bit of a time crunch and like it. Much better than stainless cable I previously had.

As you said though, most of the value of that strap is the shackles... and the fact it is pre made and you can order it off the shelf.

That said, most options will work fine and you'll probably change your mind after trying your first pick anyway if you are like me. And then proceed to live with it for at least 5 years anyway because it is just fine.

I am curious if the front handles being relatively far aft will pose any balance challenges, as that is the other piece of the puzzle... getting all the pieces the right length. That is the step buying the adjustable Wichard step let me sidestep.

You may well have already seen it, but there are a few comments in https://www.facebook.com/groups/159221667846990/permalink/1269698543465958/ around reinforcing the handles. I'd have less concern just lifting it to set it on deck vs having it permanently hanging off the stern.

FWT · Feb 26, 2023

marcs said:
I'm not stoked on having two pieces of metal hardware connecting like that at the dinghy. You would need to be sure they can't get caught at a bad metal to metal angle that puts them in a compromised weak position. Be wary of side loading, etc. Plus pinch points for fingers.

I like Peter's diagram or anything that avoids metal hardware at the handles.

I bought the Wichard SP400 two years ago (only $294.98 at the time!) because I was in a bit of a time crunch and like it. Much better than stainless cable I previously had.

As you said though, most of the value of that strap is the shackles... and the fact it is pre made and you can order it off the shelf.

That said, most options will work fine and you'll probably change your mind after trying your first pick anyway if you are like me. And then proceed to live with it for at least 5 years anyway because it is just fine.

I am curious if the front handles being relatively far aft will pose any balance challenges, as that is the other piece of the puzzle... getting all the pieces the right length. That is the step buying the adjustable Wichard step let me sidestep.

You may well have already seen it, but there are a few comments in https://www.facebook.com/groups/159221667846990/permalink/1269698543465958/ around reinforcing the handles. I'd have less concern just lifting it to set it on deck vs having it permanently hanging off the stern.

Thanks for that. I did do a search on the FB site owners forum some time ago.

I also emailed the manufacturer in Australia, bypassing the local US dealers. The response was its fine to use the handles, and that's their recommendation.

Where things change is when you have a davit system where you intend to leaving it hanging. I won't be doing that. I'll lift it onto the top deck and rest it on soft chocks for starters. Further, I'm using an ePropulsion I won't keep on the dink. Plan A is to launch the dink then attach the motor. I will also try it by attaching the motor while still on the chocks. Point being, either way the motor may not be part of the weight stress on the handles, and with the engine is a comparatively light addition. And the weight stress will be brief.

Dry weight on the dink is 235 lbs by the way.

My original thought was to run straps under the boat entirely. The manufacturer said that wasn't necessary.

I would love having lift eyes. But that involves surgery I hope to avoid at least in the near term until I have more experience with this boat. (Cut in and install access ports to install backing plates, etc.) And other more important projects on the big boat are behind me. Heck at this point I can't be certain the dink model / design will be to my liking.

FWT · Feb 26, 2023

mvweebles said:
I did a quick sketch in PowerPoint. A little cut and paste and presto.

I work for beer.

Peter

Well, you have the beer. With or without the sketch. Just cruise up to the Chesapeake to come drink it.

bkcorwin · Feb 26, 2023

TBH, at 235# dry weight, i'm not sure much of this talk about metal to metal, or other things matters at all. With a 4 point harness distributing the load your looking at relatively tiny tension loads. Also theres minimal sawing as the hooks are only connected during the lift.

I'd just buy whatever looks beefy enough for the wife and attach it by clips or soft shackles (i'd use soft shackles as its just less banging around).

5/8 soft shackles are crazy beefy. There are designs that go to over 140% of single line breaking strength. Amsteel blue in 5/8 has about a 47000 pound breaking strength.

Greg S · Feb 26, 2023

You are over complicating it. Look at the sketch that Peter made. He has the answer that you are ignoring. The carabiner end of the legs does not clip on the handle. It goes completely around the handle and clips on the ring shown farther up the strap. That way you have the webbing on the handle, not some Rube Goldberg contraption of connectors.

Don’t know Rube? Look him up.

Kingston Mariner · Feb 26, 2023

I use one of these to lift my 9.5' inflatable. Keep it protected from the elements when not in use. Have had it for three seasons and its holding up well so far.

https://shop.inflatableboatparts.co...ing-sling-for-dinghies-1-arm-davit-4-pt-lift/

FWT · Feb 27, 2023

Greg S said:
You are over complicating it. Look at the sketch that Peter made. He has the answer that you are ignoring. The carabiner end of the legs does not clip on the handle. It goes completely around the handle and clips on the ring shown farther up the strap. That way you have the webbing on the handle, not some Rube Goldberg contraption of connectors.

Don’t know Rube? Look him up.

Duh.

So as not to over-complicate things, back to my original question. Which was where to find a vendor who sells or can fashion what Peter drew? At the end of the day I need to work with what I can find, not what I wish I could find.

FWT · Feb 27, 2023

Kingston Mariner said:
I use one of these to lift my 9.5' inflatable. Keep it protected from the elements when not in use. Have had it for three seasons and its holding up well so far.

https://shop.inflatableboatparts.co...ing-sling-for-dinghies-1-arm-davit-4-pt-lift/

Great. Since you have one, perhaps you can answer two questions.

1) What is the inside diameter of the caribiner at the wide end?

2) A few such caribiners have the small end closed off with a leg across it to form an enclosed circle. Does this? I can't quite tell from the pics.

mvweebles · Feb 27, 2023

FWT - if you get totally skunked looking for an off the shelf rig, you may want to post on CruisersForum. Use my sketch and add measurements. A lot of folks with decent DIY canvas skills and a Sailrite sewing machine. Guessing there are several who'd jump at making $100 for their time (you send the materials from the links I provided).

Another option would be a local sailmaker - i think you said you're in the Chesapeake area which should have options.. Clew on a sail is attached in a similar manner as my sketch and is obviously strong and durable. Armed with materials, measurements and sewing machine already setup, this would only take someone an hour to sew.

I'm eager to hear how your dink works out. It's an interesting design. If you haven't already, may want to let the Oz builder know your struggle. Something they may want to consider for future enhancement or accessory.

Peter

twistedtree · Feb 27, 2023

Lots of good ideas, and I'll throw out another one.

You really have two problems; how to attach the harness to the grab bars on the boat, and what style and material to use for the harness.

I had a Winchard strap harness on my last boat. It worked fine. I now have a Dynema line harness and prefer it. Smaller, lighter, stronger. What's not to like.

As for attachment to the grab handles, consider splicing a loop of dynema around each handle and just leaving them there. They should be small and flexible enough to not be in the way, and might even prove useful for hooking up other things. Then have typical snap hooks on the harness, and hook them to the loops. You might have better luck than me, but finding a snap hook of some sort that will go around those grab handles I think will be a real challenge.

Let us know what you finally come up with, and a few pictures would be great.

mvweebles · Feb 27, 2023

twistedtree said:
As for attachment to the grab handles, consider splicing a loop of dynema around each handle and just leaving them there.

Great idea. Either make the loop to capture the handle so you never lose it, or make a loop and double it around the handle for temporary use.

Here's a tutorial on making a continuous loop. Pretty straightforward.

Peter.

Lift Strap Vendor?

Guru

Senior Member

Guru

Senior Member

Guru

Veteran Member

Guru

Senior Member

Guru

Guru

Guru

Veteran Member

Guru

Guru

Guru

Guru

Attachments

Guru

Guru

Guru

Veteran Member

Guru

Guru

Senior Member

Senior Member

Veteran Member

Guru

Guru

Guru

Guru

Guru

Similar threads