Electric tug under design and to be built

With a truckable boat, can the bank charge at a Tesla kiosk?

Keysdease wrote;
“One example given was a harbor tug. Never went too far, worked regular hours, the work cycle lent itself to recharging, etc. The cost curves between the diesel and the electric tugs favored the electric tug...until it came time to replace the batteries. Then the cost curve was all shot to hell.”

All well and good w the operational needs lined up w electric power.
But re the way the elements of emotional forces or things like satisfying vibrations and relaxing sounds add up to a personality of a boat. And I’m thinking a pair of thundering Detroit diesels or a low frequency vibrating slow speed (rpm) heavy duty diesels would much much more likely to give a tugboat skipper satisfaction or make him smile.

I’d call it a personality mismatch.

Crowley also building electric tug

Crowley Maritime has also designed and is building an all electric tugboat for the port of San Diego. See the link below:
https://www.crowley.com/news-and-media/press-releases/ewolf-electric-tug/
The future of electric power in displacement powerboats is really interesting and exciting.

It is true that we will need a great deal of infrastructure to support everyone owning an EV, but it will take years for 100% of the population to drive EV's. The infrastructure does not need to be created overnight. It only has to grow as fast as EV ownership. 2 people in my family have purchased cars in the last year. One was a hybrid, and one was a Hydrogen powered Toyota. I don't think we can even say with any confidence what the dominant technology will be. Does anyone remember the Sony Beta Max or 8 track tapes ? It is easy to be a nay-sayer, but so much more enjoyable to be an optimist, as we are living in exciting times for both personal transportation and our national power grid.

Benthic2 said:

Climate Change, pollution, dependence on foreign oil...

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I get that the long term power source is the objective, but for the here and now the majority of electricity in US comes from coal. If we are willing to accept the impact from that for the foreseeable future and that the present power grid is in need of upgrade and maintenance, so will struggle to handle the added loads to recharge all these vehicles, then we may see a day when it is environmentally beneficial. The financial advantage may be further off than that. This is clearly an issue with many factors to impact it and the benefits may be further down the road than many are willing to believe now. That doesn't mean it is not worth pursuing, as long as we don't become depend on it before it's maturity and thus leaving us in a vulnerable situation.

ronobrien said:

I get that the long term power source is the objective, but for the here and now the majority of electricity in US comes from coal. If we are willing to accept the impact from that for the foreseeable future and that the present power grid is in need of upgrade and maintenance, so will struggle to handle the added loads to recharge all these vehicles, then we may see a day when it is environmentally beneficial. The financial advantage may be further off than that. This is clearly an issue with many factors to impact it and the benefits may be further down the road than many are willing to believe now. That doesn't mean it is not worth pursuing, as long as we don't become depend on it before it's maturity and thus leaving us in a vulnerable situation.

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I don't know why the fallacy you quote persists but...
as of 2021 it was: natural gas 38.4% and coal 21.9%.

In 2022, coal slid to 18.5%, less than renewables.

KnotYet said:

I don't know why the fallacy you quote persists but...
as of 2021, it was: natural gas 38.4% and coal 21.9%.
In 2022, coal slid to 18.5%, less than renewables.

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A little research shows the confusion. You are correct on the percentage of electricity IN THE US coming from coal. The percentage globally is higher. The percentage of coal production used in electrical generation in the US is 90% +/-, not be be confused with the amount of electricity derived from coal. There's the confusion on coal.

US is an outlier on vehicle size. We like SUVs, CUVs and pickups. We like big cars and trucks.
Go just about anywhere in the world and the difference is striking. Even the pickups and transit trucks are smaller elsewhere.
It’s disingenuous to complain about weight. There’s no reason for our cars and pickups to be so large with the exception of those used for work.
I want a pick. I’ll get a EV rivian or ranger or the like. Don’t need even a half ton.

ronobrien said:

A little research shows the confusion. You are correct on the percentage of electricity IN THE US coming from coal. The percentage globally is higher. The percentage of coal production used in electrical generation in the US is 90% +/-, not be be confused with the amount of electricity derived from coal. There's the confusion on coal.

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I'm not sure who is confused on what, but the simple fact is power plant KW generation from coal in the US is about 19.0% plus or minus 1/2%.

US coal use for power is dwarfed by China's electricity from coal at 62% and India's 74%. Both these countries are building over 100 coal fired power plants currently or in the near future.

Hippocampus said:

US is an outlier on vehicle size. We like SUVs, CUVs and pickups. We like big cars and trucks.
Go just about anywhere in the world and the difference is striking. Even the pickups and transit trucks are smaller elsewhere.
It’s disingenuous to complain about weight. There’s no reason for our cars and pickups to be so large with the exception of those used for work.
I want a pick. I’ll get a EV rivian or ranger or the like. Don’t need even a half ton.

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It is amazing how efficient an F150 is compared to a Nordic Tug. Why some even sell their sail boat and buy a power boat! It is wonderful to be living somewhere that our individual choices and dreams can be realized.

tsvanwin said:

Crowley Maritime has also designed and is building an all electric tugboat for the port of San Diego. See the link below:
https://www.crowley.com/news-and-media/press-releases/ewolf-electric-tug/
The future of electric power in displacement powerboats is really interesting and exciting.

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10th Ave Terminal in SD is a relatively small dock for the Dole banana ships and break bulk carriers that periodically visit. Overall, ship visits are light as 99% percent of the SoCal shipping traffic goes to LA/SP and some to Oxnard. These particular docks are near hotels and residential homes with lower income families to the East.

This proposed little tug fits the definition of a harbor tug well, and will likely have limited run times/distances involved for its use case.

SD is also looking to install electrical shore power connections for the ships along this dock to reduce their Gen run time. IE, container ships in LA can have limited port time but break bulk ships doing their own offloading can be parked here for a week or more. Many of the bulk ships who visit are older, foreign flagged, and emit more unburned HC and Nox than newer ships, hence the desire for a electrical connection for shore power. And, I get it, some of the energy source will be hydrocarbon fuels to provide the electricity, but it’s a cleaner source of power than these old ships engines. California gets it power supply from a wide variety of sources (renewables constantly growing). We still import <10% from other states that burn coal, but we will be phasing out coal produced electricity by 2026.

A lot of people on TF believe man made climate change from fossil fuels is bogus even though the vast majority of climate scientists and others who have PHD/PE after their name have shown us otherwise. With the internet, social media, and forums, we have given a voice to many people who could barely sit through one required class of chemistry in high school, but now they have strong opinions on scientific matters and know more than the experts. At first it was distressing, now just amusing, and they are not going to change their opinions. Distrust of experts is something that has been whipped up in our recent past for a variety of uses, and very successfully I must say. I would therefore expect the usual negative comments towards people who are trying to make a difference and look for alternate solutions. As I stated before, it doesn’t matter what we think (myself included), the next generation gets to decide how they want to play this out. Manage your own destiny, or others will do it for you.

Find it interesting that the press and promo aimed at commercial audiences makes a decent economic case Hence are optimistic that irrespective of a Luddites here the evolution to mixed and pure electric will occur and is occurring at present.
The concern as with EVs or zero footprint housing is the existing stock needs to age out or at least age sufficiently that replacement starts to make sense.

Benthic2 said:

It is true that we will need a great deal of infrastructure to support everyone owning an EV, but it will take years for 100% of the population to drive EV's. The infrastructure does not need to be created overnight. It only has to grow as fast as EV ownership.

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In a macro sense that is correct, but in a micro sense it is not. If there are only 2 EVs in the country, you need at most 2 charging stations. The problem is, where do you put them that allows cross country travel? This is the problem with electric cruising boats. There are not many and will not be many for some time. But as all of the calculations show even on the optimistic side, you need a charging station every 40 - 50 miles. It becomes a chicken and egg thing, even if the tech makes sense. Tesla solved that by spending a lot of Musk's money on charging stations. I don't see that happening in the marina business. I don't see state and federal subsidies for them either.

DDW said:

In a macro sense that is correct, but in a micro sense it is not. If there are only 2 EVs in the country, you need at most 2 charging stations. The problem is, where do you put them that allows cross country travel? This is the problem with electric cruising boats. There are not many and will not be many for some time. But as all of the calculations show even on the optimistic side, you need a charging station every 40 - 50 miles. It becomes a chicken and egg thing, even if the tech makes sense. Tesla solved that by spending a lot of Musk's money on charging stations. I don't see that happening in the marina business. I don't see state and federal subsidies for them either.

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Which is exactly why for non dayboats the transition probably will include a hybrid step. For me having a direct standard diesel pathway supplemented by an electric pathway would seem most robust. Hence that’s why I favor parallel over series for present.

The bigger obstacle, at least in the North American market, is the transition away from heavy FD hulls to LDL hulls. There are several proponents of heavy displacement boats here who have pointed out the known benefits of that paradigm. NA boaters are conservative in their thinking about ocean boats regardless of their politics or checkbooks. It is here I think is the major obstacle to the transition. Know sailors who still believe full keel boats are de rigor and the bees knees.

It’s here not electric that the greatest decrease in diesel use would be made and the possibility of further dramatic decrease by employing hybrid becomes feasible.

Sure there’s special use cases like small harbor tugs, water taxis and ferries where pure electric has something to offer but for the non day boat recreational market suspect there will be a lot of turnover and flash in the pan. In recent years the LDL market seems fairly durable.

Might want to read about a trip of the length of the east coast in a Rivian with the large pack. Gentleman was successful but admits it was a bit of a hassle. Of interest that industry has moved to standardize chargers in large measure. At least for level one and two chargers. Believe that’s smart and will continue. Also believe as availability of chargers becomes a point that increases bookings the major motel/hotel chains will increase the number of chargers in their lots. Similarly a level one or two charger is pretty cheap to buy and install. If say this gives safe harbor or another chain a marketing advantage they will do the same. Maybe >5% of th slips initially. But likely increase as time goes by.