Cutting an 8D battery

I have 4 totally dead 8D batteries (2 outboard of each engine) which I have abandoned for the last 2 years. I'm not able to get the port side batts out due to a water heater blocking the way fwd and the exhaust riser blocking an aft removal. Plus they're just to heavy for my tired old back.
I'm considering cutting them in half or thirds for removal.


Question: Can I:
1) Jam say, a sharpened 1/2" wood or delrin dowel into each cell, making way for a small tube to be inserted for pumping out the electrolyte without causing any "surprises"?

2) Cut them up with a sawzall sans previously mentioned "surprises"?


Or possibly cut around and lift the tops off each and lift out the plates.

I can do this in or over the FG boxes they live in thus catching any run-off and debris.
Is this doable, or am I as crazy as this sounds?

Could hired muscle move the batteries around those obstructions?

-Chris

Personally I would temporarily move the water heater, drain, remove hold down hardware, and shift out of the way. If it cannot be shifted, disconnect, and remove to get at the batteries.

Just me, but I would NOT cut into a FLA battery to get it out. You'll never be able to remove all the electrolyte, and some will spill into the bilge.
If you have any salt water in the bilge, you will now have chlorine (hydrochloric) gas in the engine compartment . . . . which can incapacitate you, cause permanent lung damage, or kill you. I'd prefer to avoid that myself.
Also, the acid can damage or destroy paint, aluminum, etc. Why risk it?

slowgoesit said:

Personally I would temporarily move the water, drain, remove hold down hardware, and shift out of the way. If it cannot be shifted, disconnect, and remove to get at the batteries.

Just me, but I would NOT cut into a FLA battery to get it out. You'll never be able to remove all the electrolyte, and some will spill into the bilge.
If you have any salt water in the bilge, you will now have chlorine (hydrochloric) gas in the engine compartment . . . . which can incapacitate you, cause permanent lung damage, or kill you. I'd prefer to avoid that myself.
Also, the acid can damage or destroy paint, aluminum, etc. Why risk it?

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I would agree.

I would also change the location of the components so that the batteries are blocking the water heater from removal, not the other way around.

Batteries need checking. Even if they require no water, it is important to check them occasionally as the terminals are high amperage connections and represent a risk of fire if connections vibrate a bit loose.

As long as the batteries are accessible from above you could cut the tops off.
The plates are connected at the tops with lead links and can be handled one by one.
All the electrolyte can then be removed leaving only the case to be cut as needed.

That being said, a water heater sounds easier to move (to me).
A plywood plank made it less painful for my upgrade to 125lb. batteries years ago.
I was able to slide the old 8D's up the ramp and slide the new ones back down.

Even though your 8D is dead, it is still full of acid. Cutting it would be dangerous to both human and surrounding equipment.

As said already, remove them in one undamaged piece. A cut up battery will need to go to a hazardous waste storage site. That could prove problematic. I’ve some knowledge on this subject having worked in the lead production and battery recycling industries.

Once removed you’ve got several options for newly freed up space. Stay safe; the innards of a battery are loaded with water soluble lead sulfate.

Not sure this would help you. I had six 8Ds to change out. Was able to drill a hole in the deck above the batteries. Dropped a rope thru that connected to a bar that went thru both handles. Put a bar on the rope topside and had two guys lift. Was able to swing it out of its spot to a more convenient one for removal.
Kinda a Rube Goldberg but saved my back. Put 8Ds back in. They should last as long as I have the boat. Need to leave a challenge for the next guy

"Is this doable, or am I as crazy as this sounds?"

Well Steve, might be easier to drill a small hole in the top, stick some fish tank tubing into it, give it a big deep suck and drain the acid that way. What could possibly go wrong???

Mako said:

"Is this doable, or am I as crazy as this sounds?"



Well Steve, might be easier to drill a small hole in the top, stick some fish tank tubing into it, give it a big deep suck and drain the acid that way. What could possibly go wrong???

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Try not to swallow

Greetings,
Mr. S. Hire a couple of yard apes and take them out in one piece. No matter how careful you THINK you're being, you're sure to get sulfuric acid all over the place. Most definitely NOT worth the risk to you or the boat.

Back in my younger, more ignorant days I used to salvage batteries for the lead. I also made a number of "dummy" empty cases for storage of valuables, great disguise.

Anyway, I know whereof I speak. You can not drain the acid from a battery from the top. Period, can't be done. Even tipping one over does not really empty them. You can, however, drill holes in or near the bottom to drain the acid. You will need a hole for each cell, so six in a twelve volt battery. Catching the acid can be problematic so have a good plan in place before you drill. There is not as much acid in a battery as you may suspect, even a series "D". Less than a gallon. After the batteries are empty literally flood them with baking soda and water. I'm talking a couple boxes of baking soda per battery. Flood with lots of water. After a short time the acid becomes neutral and you don't have to be so careful with it.

Now the hard part. Those cases are VERY tough. There is not just a shell around the battery but each cell is enclosed in the same material. A sawzall with a demolition blade will do the job though.

It really is not that bad of a job, you can easily do it. Go for it.

Two final points though,EYE PROTECTION and gloves!!!

In closing let me say this, I have said it often before. 8D batteries have no place on a boat.

pete

Not sure we’re even discussing this subject still, unless it’s just rhetorical.

However I am curious about the statement about 8Ds having no place in a boat. Please expand on that.

Mako said:

Not sure we’re even discussing this subject still, unless it’s just rhetorical.

However I am curious about the statement about 8Ds having no place in a boat. Please expand on that.

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It is much easier to use two group 31 batteries in place of one 8D. You get the same power but you have a more manageable package.

tiltrider1 said:

It is much easier to use two group 31 batteries in place of one 8D. You get the same power but you have a more manageable package.

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Ummmm... yeah, maybe, maybe not so much.

Typical 8D capacity is in the neighborhood of 245Ah I think, and our Lifeline AGMs are 255Ah.

Two G31s typically give you about 200Ah. I think three G31s won't fit in the same space as two 8Ds, although IIRC it can be close but a different shape.

Six GC2s will fit in the same space as two 8Ds, I think, sometimes not a bad trade-off.

All this from (sometime faulty) memory, of course, so mea culpa if I got some details wrong.

It certainly can be easier to shift a G31 (our Odysseys were something like 76lbs) compared to an 8D (ours are 156lbs).

I don't agree that 8Ds are unsuitable, but I certainly do recognize the challenges 8Ds can present... and I can see that often a different battery size (and weight) might be preferable.

-Chris

I would find a way to remove the batteries intact, including removing the hot water heater or exhaust to do so. If access is so poor, how will you get in there lift to batteries up and position them such that you can drill holes, one at a time, tip the battery to drain each cell, then move on to the next cell. And once you have a bucket of sulfuric acid (wait, it will be 2 gallons because you have two batteries) what will you do with it? And what about all the acid soaked lead? And be darn sure they are 100% dead. Otherwise drilling into them will likely cause a short and possibly disassemble the batteries for you.

Please don't. Unless you're a jerk, in which case knock yourself out. But seriously, sounds like a really bad idea. I would rather give you a hand than find out what went wrong. I'm in Stuart, if you need help send me a message.

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. (except for the sucking bit, back at ya) Cutting the tops off seems like an option worth investigating a bit further. But it looks like the riser is coming off and hired brute strength will prevail. The batteries really are in a terrible place to service them.

The water heater is broadside to the engine and ahead of it is the water pressure system and a platform with refer equipment above. I'll take a few pics.

Stand by.

Greetings,
Mr. S. " Cutting the tops off seems like an option worth investigating a bit further." How on earth did you come to THAT ludicrous conclusion???? Just for fun (???) take one drop of battery acid and put it on your cheek. I think your "further consideration" will vaporize faster than the skin on your cheek.


Bite the bullet. Remove whatever obstructions as are necessary, hire some muscle and do your swap-over in the safest way possible. Give serious consideration to either replacing with more manageable sized batteries or relocating to a more accessible spot. The latter being the best option IMO.



I've made a few REALLY stupid mistakes while dealing with acids but no lasting or serious injuries.

Steve1.0 said:

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. (except for the sucking bit, back at ya) Cutting the tops off seems like an option worth investigating a bit further. But it looks like the riser is coming off and hired brute strength will prevail. The batteries really are in a terrible place to service them.

The water heater is broadside to the engine and ahead of it is the water pressure system and a platform with refer equipment above. I'll take a few pics.

Stand by.

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Lots of stuff on the internet (especially YouTube) about draining batteries.... looks like it can be done reasonably safely if precautions are taken.

Just beware the videos of the guy(s) not wearing gloves or glasses or even have much of a step by step plan.

Mako, to expand on my statement that 8Ds don't belong in boats...

1) They are really heavy.I would guess that the average boat owner can no longer lift an 8D. If they are really strong they may be able to lift one but can they carry it up and down stairs or a ladder? Can they lift over any kind of ledge for installation?

2) They are really big! An ideal battery installation has the batteries , sometimes two, sometimes three, near each other so the interconnecting them can be done with relatively short cables. Not many boats have room for two or three 8Ds.

3) I could be wrong, and probably am but I have never seen a battery case designed to contain an 8D.

4) They are really not as efficient or powerful as smaller batteries (golf cart batteries) connected in series.

5) They are expensive. I didn't run the numbers on cost per amp, might be interesting though.

6) At least in my personal experience they don't last as long as other batteries in a boat.

Thats just one man's opinion, please be kind.

pete

NOCO 8D Commercial Grade Battery Box - HM484

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...t=Vehicle Maintenance - Vehicle Batteries - D

For the longest time it seemed boat manufactures that built twin diesels put 2 8Ds in for starting and one doubled as house.

Lots of mid sized sport fish, some of the large Sea Rays I believe, some motor yachts......diesels such as CAT 3208s and larger.

Many owners just replaced in kind whe necessary.

Pete Meisinger said:

Mako, to expand on my statement that 8Ds don't belong in boats...

1) They are really heavy.I would guess that the average boat owner can no longer lift an 8D. If they are really strong they may be able to lift one but can they carry it up and down stairs or a ladder? Can they lift over any kind of ledge for installation?

2) They are really big! An ideal battery installation has the batteries , sometimes two, sometimes three, near each other so the interconnecting them can be done with relatively short cables. Not many boats have room for two or three 8Ds.

3) I could be wrong, and probably am but I have never seen a battery case designed to contain an 8D.

4) They are really not as efficient or powerful as smaller batteries (golf cart batteries) connected in series.

5) They are expensive. I didn't run the numbers on cost per amp, might be interesting though.

6) At least in my personal experience they don't last as long as other batteries in a boat.

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Yes, heavy. OTOH, hired muscle can usually solve it.

Yes, big. OTOH, the footprint of a gang of replacement batteries equal to the same cranking amps and/or capacity is often pretty much the same if not slightly larger.

Yep, as above, cases are easy to find.

Dunno about efficiency. For example, four GC2s in series to 24VDC still usually wouldn't provide as many cranking amps or capacity as do one of our two 8D pairs.

I didn't check costs either, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's wash.

Inexpensive run of the mill batteries -- any size -- probably don't last as long as more expensive better batteries. I don't think I'd draw that conclusion unless I was seeing brand for brand comparison within type (e.g., Trojan to Trojan, dual purpose to dual purpose, etc.). Even then, outcome would often depend on whether the user typically treats batteries well... or typically murders them.

All that said... if it were me schlepping the things around... smaller and lighter would be my preference too. As long as cranking amp and capacity goals are met.

I guess there the "average boat owner" thing, too. I'm average, in my mind. Three pairs of 8Ds aboard. No, I can't lift them.... but the boatyard guys can (did).

-Chris

I would not cut them up!! What could go wrong? New smaller batteries for the next install I hope.

Certainly would not cut one up in situ to remove it. Recently I saw one at the marina, top cut off. Interested to see what`s inside, it satisfied curiosity.

Given all of the risk involved. Try finding two or three big guys hanging around the docks and give them $20-30 each to do the heavy work.

Think of the corrosion that could happen , just a drop of acid on jeans will leave a hole , you could be starting a corrosion issue in important parts , look at it like this -the water heater could use a good flushing and anode replacements anyway . best of luck

Two days ago, I wrote about removing a generator to access bolts securing swim grid on a Regal. Granted, access was good and a forklift at the ready, but 45-minutes later the generator was on the ground and covered.

Remove water heater. Remove exhaust riser if needed. Take out the batteries the way they went in and solve the access issue for future. I realize the OP is still left with very heavy 8Ds, but still, cutting a battery in-place is nuts - the unintended consequences are endless. Stop by a Home Depot parking lot at 7AM if you need muscle. Host a pizza party. Anything, but take the batteries out the way they went in.

Peter

Steve1.0 said:

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. (except for the sucking bit, back at ya) Cutting the tops off seems like an option worth investigating a bit further. But it looks like the riser is coming off and hired brute strength will prevail. The batteries really are in a terrible place to service them.

The water heater is broadside to the engine and ahead of it is the water pressure system and a platform with refer equipment above. I'll take a few pics.

Stand by.

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No, it does not need more investigations. But if you do continue on this path can you first show next of kin how to post a post mortem here to end this story.

8D's are used. I am one of them. 5 of them.

I rigged some lifting tackle with H.D. pad eyes and/or closed bolt eyes screwed to the overhead saloon floor support joists, small blocks hanging from them with S hooks. Took some figuring but once set up not much effort.

I also twice now hired the local movers, two strong guys, who charged me for an hour. Heck of a deal as I am long past the actual lifting point.

I agree , do not cut the batts in place. DO what is needed to get them out and arrange things so you don't hit this again.

I had a battery [ one cell] blow up spraying acid all over including me and the engine compartment.. Not FUN and dammed dangerous and a LARGE cleanup job.

One error on your part could be disastrous.

Anyway, just my opinion. Do with it as you choose.