Which Boat to Buy?

Trying to decide between two boats, and they are very different except for the price, which is basically the same.

The Mainship is a 2002 with a single 5.9 Cummins.. 1900 hours. Radar, chart plotter, no autopilot. Nice, clean, shiny. Wife likes these. Good price, like 20% under what I think is market price.

The other boat is a steel, 44' boat with 3000 mile range, stabilized, good electronics, new John Deere engine that gets 5-6 mpg at 7 knots. It is supposedly a "go anywhere" kind of a boat, but not shiny. In fact, kind of ugly. Like a little steel ship. And it's old. Like 1966 old. But owned by a knowledgable cruiser supposedly so constantly updated. Wife not as enthused about this boat for some reason. ;-)

We will cruise locally initially, and then to the Bahamas over the next few years during the summers with the wife and kids, but I am in Texas and would like to do an open water crossing to the keys instead of the ICW to keep the trip a little shorter, and to see if we can do it, so the Mainship is out on this. Also interested in the great loop in 5 years. My long range, crazy goal, if I feel like we can handle it, I would like try to make it through the Panama Canal-- little ship obviously for this trip.

So, do I go with the ICW only Mainship, that looks good and that wife will be excited about and want to entertain on, or do I go for the adventurous little ship that could take us to exotic places?

My experience level is not all that high. Last few years we have chartered a small trawler in Florida for a week, and we also chartered a Great Harbor n37 in the Bahamas for a week. Have sailed small boats all my life.

If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy...

CPseudonym said:

If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy...

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Spoken like an experiened married man.

Especially with your limited trawler experience, I would go with the Mainship. No doubt about it.

I too recommend the Mainship for the reasons stated. But that boat won't crimp your cruising plans much. Most cruisers, myself included, planned to go far and wide, but Momma or practicality steps in and at best you make a trip or so over to the Bahamas.

That Mainship will do fine to cross over to the Bahamas and cruise those islands. No it won't do a cross Gulf of Mexico trip or make it to the Carribean islands, but with a little more time and miles the GOM trip can be done coastal. And this is what a once in a lifetime trip?

So buy the pretty Mainship. It will do 95% of what you really will end up doing and Momma will like it.

David

I prefer Jolie.

A single without an auto pilot might get a little tiring. Every little wave will knock it off course and you will find yourself constantly correcting. An hour or two cruise is no problem but if your going for 10 or 12 hours you will be calling the auto pilot man for a quote
Johnma
2003 390 Mainship

Frankly, I think your two choices are pretty far apart on the spectrum of possibilities. If you've rented a Great Harbor N37 or N47, you know the incredible engine room and space come at a cost. I think you ought to give a glance to Willard 40s, Krogen 42s, and Hatteras 42 and 48 LRCs. They are sea-worthy designs with layouts that don't give you the hallway feeling like some of the more skinny, efficient designs built for the trawling purist. The Mainship is a great boat that will expand your range for short term cruising with it's speed, but it doesn't sound like that is the kind of cruising you have in mind.

Northern Spy said:

I prefer Jolie.

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Lol. Caught me. Something about that boat....

johnma said:

A single without an auto pilot might get a little tiring. Every little wave will knock it off course and you will find yourself constantly correcting. An hour or two cruise is no problem but if your going for 10 or 12 hours you will be calling the auto pilot man for a quote
Johnma
2003 390 Mainship

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Yeah. I really wish it had autopilot. What does the equipment coat and can it be installed by a reasonably handy dude?

Ah Jolie, a interesting boat. I’ve seen her up close.

In spite of the fact that her listing broker may be a mod here, a prudent navigator exercising due diligence would use this google search string (below) to learn how the owner at the time the JD was installed got around a JD requirement that a non marine engine could not be installed for marine use, and would not have a warranty. Sure it was a while ago, and warranty would no longer be an issue. He was determined to do it and I guess he pulled it off.

Does it make a difference? Don’t know. Interesting reading, if you come across the right posts.

lotusman1951 site:trawlering.com

You may want to refine with JD, or Deere, or Kevin Kearney

Lots of people forget, if it’s on the internet it’s there forever.

Mike

djmarchand said:

I too recommend the Mainship for the reasons stated. But that boat won't crimp your cruising plans much. Most cruisers, myself included, planned to go far and wide, but Momma or practicality steps in and at best you make a trip or so over to the Bahamas.

That Mainship will do fine to cross over to the Bahamas and cruise those islands. No it won't do a cross Gulf of Mexico trip or make it to the Carribean islands, but with a little more time and miles the GOM trip can be done coastal. And this is what a once in a lifetime trip?

So buy the pretty Mainship. It will do 95% of what you really will end up doing and Momma will like it.

David

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Good points. The Mainship is PROBABLY all I need.

rwidman said:

Spoken like an experiened married man.

Especially with your limited trawler experience, I would go with the Mainship. No doubt about it.

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This is very true. If it wasn't for this I would buy the other boat for sure. However my wife has friends in Costa Rica so maybe that will sway her to the little ship. I can dream.

You can always upgrade in a few years after the wife gets hooked and wants to go farther distances ... .

jahillsr said:

You can always upgrade in a few years after the wife gets hooked and wants to go farther distances ... .

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Man, I hate buyin and sellin boats. Pain in the ass. I want one and be done. That's why I'm agonizing.

I have a similar story to yours.

I wanted a passagemaker.

I looked at a Willard 40, a Krogen 42, and a Nordhavn 46. My wife was less than enthused. A quick firm no on the Willard and the krogen settled that.

I really liked the Nordhavn. I'd read "voyaging under power" The Nordhavn 46 was the perfect boat for me.

We were walking the docks and she saw a Bayliner 4788. She saw all the room inside, and the bright airy interior. She saw the three staterooms for guests and the huge pilothouse where a half dozen people could sit.

We argued. We fought like a young couple. Ultimatiums were laid down.

I named our Bayliner 4788 Lisas Way.

1. If your wife's not totally on board with any idea you may have for a boat the project is doomed unless you are willing to go boating by yourself.

2. I think you're going at this back asswards. The first thing you need to do is define exactly what you want to do with the boat and what you want the boat to be able to do. Which means going back to number 1 and then answering a whole lot of questions together unless you want to be boating alone.

Only when you have defined really well what you realistically want to do and can do does it make sense to start looking at specific types of boats. But to buy a boat on a half-baked notion of what you think you might want to do if the wife will go along with it is a recipe for either ending up with the wrong boat, pouring a ton of money into the wrong boat, or steering your marital relationship onto the rocks. Or more likely all three.

3. People rarely act on the advice they get after asking a question like the one you have posed, so the real answer to your what-boat-should-you-get question is the only person who can answer that is you. If you make the decision intelligently and in partnership with your wife than the odds are good that you'll have the positive experience most of us on this forum have had. If you make the decision based on some vague dream then the odds are you will joint the not-insignificant number of people who got into boating for the wrong reasons, bought the wrong boat, and ended up having an expensive, frustrating, and very disappointing experience.

My wife was 100 percent in favor of the notion of getting a cruising boat. We were both in agreement about what we wanted to do with a boat and what we didn't want to do. We determined together what sort of boat we felt would meet our needs, chartered one for awhile to confirm our choice, and then bought one. Fourteen years later my wife is still as involved with the boat as I am. She's the one who figured out how we could acquire the boat without having to finance it, and she works on the boat same as I do. She works with me to compound and wax the hull during every haulout. She has helped overhaul toilets and change engine oil. She's become an artist with a heat gun and does all our wood stripping. She also does all our canvas work. She's better at navigation than I am thanks to her stint in the US Navy and she genuinely loves being out on the water.

As a result, our experiences with the boat are far, far richer and more meaningful than if she was a reluctant, or at best passive participant in our boating and merely "went along" with what I wanted to do.

I daresay if you look at the members of this forum who get the most out of their boating, be it weekend trips in SFO Bay, cruises on the ICW and in the Gulf, river or Great Lakes cruising, cruising the islands and inlets of Maine and the Canadian Maritimes, or boating the waters of Inside Passage in the PNW, BC, and SE Alasksa, you will find that they all have spouses who are equal participants in the experience and get every bit as much out of it.

People ask me how many can sleep aboard the Coot. I'm happy to say "two" in the forward stateroom. I'm reluctant to add the saloon can accommodate three more.

On the subject of that steel boat
Did anyone notice the pic of the engine room
Thats the only time I have ever seen common pvc fittings used on coolant lines

Look around a bit, don't fall in love too easy
The fun of buying a boat is checking out whats available
And go for a lower maintenance fiberglass boat

"Yeah. I really wish it had autopilot. What does the equipment coat and can it be installed by a reasonably handy dude?

Depends on the system by which the boat is steered.

The stock boat assemblers will use hyd with the pump actually behind the wheel.

This will require a AP that has a pump and motor to run the existing hardware.

About $2k .

IF the boat is steered with rods or cables , the AP only needs to turn the wheel as required , so a wheel mounted setup is 1/2 the cost and easy to install.

MY guess would be the bride likes the Mainship because it would show better to lubber friends/associates.

When you actually get under way , the steel boat will get far more interest from boating folks that can appreciate the vessels ability.

ksanders said:

I have a similar story to yours.

I wanted a passagemaker.

I looked at a Willard 40, a Krogen 42, and a Nordhavn 46. My wife was less than enthused. A quick firm no on the Willard and the krogen settled that.

I really liked the Nordhavn. I'd read "voyaging under power" The Nordhavn 46 was the perfect boat for me.

We were walking the docks and she saw a Bayliner 4788. She saw all the room inside, and the bright airy interior. She saw the three staterooms for guests and the huge pilothouse where a half dozen people could sit.

We argued. We fought like a young couple. Ultimatiums were laid down.

I named our Bayliner 4788 Lisas Way.

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I like that story. A fair fight and gracious defeat....sealed in the name...yahgoddaluvthat...

PS...Marin, any chance of a wife swap - just for a wee while, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.....

johnma said:

A single without an auto pilot might get a little tiring. Every little wave will knock it off course and you will find yourself constantly correcting. An hour or two cruise is no problem but if your going for 10 or 12 hours you will be calling the auto pilot man for a quote
Johnma
2003 390 Mainship

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No auto pilot - no problem. That's my experience, the opposite of yours. Of course, I trade off with my wife now and then.

My guess is there are more boats without auto pilots than with them.

rwidman said:

No auto pilot - no problem. That's my experience, the opposite of yours. Of course, I trade off with my wife now and then.

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Same here. Although, it's rarely my idea.

Tom-

cardude01 said:

................
The other boat is a steel, 44' boat with 3000 mile range, stabilized, good electronics, new John Deere engine that gets 5-6 mpg at 7 knots. It is supposedly a "go anywhere" kind of a boat, ...........

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Well, it's not a "go anywhere boat", it's too big to go many places. It may be too big for the great loop. It's also steel which can be a maintenance issue in water.

With this boat, you are looking at a very old boat, a boat that may be nearing the end of its life. It's also a boat that will be much harder to find a buyer for when and if you want or need to sell it. Unless you want a boat to take over your life, I think the Mainship is a much better choice.

BTW: The previous owners of my boat cruised it to the Bahamas and back. Smaller boats than mine have made the trip.

anyone that spends enough time on the water knows that an autopilot becomes just short of a safety item (IF USED CORRECTLY)....it most certainly is a convenience item for long distance cruisers who do ocean/open water legs.

it greatly helps with fatigue thus greatly helps with remaining sharp and making good decisions when the day has been already long....it also helps to allow a shorthanded crew to divide their attention equally among important tasks...

sure you don't have to have one...but much like Radar, once in a position where it makes life so much easier/safer, then you'll be the first one in line the next morning at the marine electronics dealer.

Peter B said:

PS...Marin, any chance of a wife swap - just for a wee while, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.....

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No. Her current to-do list includes continuing to rework the older canvas on the boat, heat stripping all the exterior grab rails, cabin trim strips, flying bridge teak, compouding and waxing the topsides when it gets warmer and stops raining long enough to do that, replacing some deck plugs that have come out this past season (a new skill she's just learned), and helping me refinish the main cabin sole (teak parquet) and fabricate new solid headliner panels. I don't see any place in there for a "go to Australia and help another guy with his old boat" item on the to-do list.

rwidman said:

No auto pilot - no problem. That's my experience, the opposite of yours. Of course, I trade off with my wife now and then.

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We do the same. In fact we removed the autopilot that came with the boat. Our longest continuous runs to date have been about eight hours and fatigue or inattention have not been issues at all.

Marin said:

We do the same. In fact we removed the autopilot that came with the boat. Our longest continuous runs to date have been about eight hours and fatigue or inattention have not been issues at all.

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True enough...but how do you feel about auto pilot/altitude hold in aircraft?
For the same reasons I like them on boats, much of the time you don't need them...it's the times you do that they earn their keep.

psneeld said:

True enough...but how do you feel about auto pilot/altitude hold in aircraft?
For the same reasons I like them on boats, much of the time you don't need them...it's the times you do that they earn their keep.

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Kind of a major difference between driving a toy boat around in two dimensions the San Juan and Gulf Islands for a weekend and flying a 777 in three dimensions for 15 hours between Dubai and Seattle, I think......

Keep in mind that I'm not slamming autopilots or think recreational boaters don't need them. We took ours off for reasons other than not wanting one and while we don't miss it at all and in fact very much enjoy hand-steering our boat, if we had an autopilot again we'd use it when we felt like it.

Marin said:

Kind of a major difference between driving a toy boat around in two dimensions the San Juan and Gulf Islands for a weekend and flying a 777 in three dimensions for 15 hours between Dubai and Seattle, I think......

Keep in mind that I'm not slamming autopilots or think recreational boaters don't need them. We took ours off for reasons other than not wanting one and while we don't miss it at all and in fact very much enjoy hand-steering our boat, if we had an autopilot again we'd use it when we felt like it.

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It's kinda the same when the pilot or captain is fatigued, stressed, has an emergency, etc...etc...the "extra" pair of hands can be quite a benefit.

777, endless supply of coffee, and a ride smoother than a baby's butt???

Naw, flying at 200 feet, dark over the water in freezing rain and severe turbulence in a cheaply made helo is more my style, even if I do get a pee break every 2-2.5 hrs. hours...

psneeld said:

777, endless supply of coffee, and a ride smoother than a baby's butt???

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The crew on our Seattle-Seoul flight a few weeks ago would probably dispute that. Not the coffee part, but the ride was so rough had we been in "something else" I'd have been worried about the tail departing the plane.

Besides, I can't imagine any of these guys being willing to trade their pay for driving around in a Rolls Royce for bouncing around in a helicopter, which everybody knows is just a collection of parts flying in close formation and soon or later it's all going to come apart. And if you're lucky enough to fly for Emirates, the flight and cabin crews get their housing and transportation for free, and they pay no taxes on their income.