Unicorn Boat?

Looking to pick the collective brain here.

I constantly look for the perfect boat, which I understand does not exist. Still fun to look though, as its a constant search for the boat that will "do it all".

We currently have a 36' Hatteras, which I think ticks a lot of boxes. My wife on the other hand, HATES that I have to be on the bridge constantly while under way, or even while fishing (trolling). She would really like a lower helm station so that there isn't the need for our young kids to climb up/down a ladder none stop. I get the headache, she's "stuck" down with the kids if we're under way as they never sit still long enough to enjoy the bridge seating. I don't mind, but then again, I'm usually relaxing with the AP on the FB.. lol.

IMO, we needed a bridge boat due to the adequate space it allows, even on a smaller 36' boat. But, my better half really wants and express style so we can "all be down stairs".

The unicorn I'm looking for, would accommodate the below:

- sleeping for 5. Bunks/bunk room would be a huge plus

- Dual helm, or express/down east style boat.

- Cockpit adequate for fishing. We troll for salmon in Lake Ontario, so seating, and space for fishing, netting etc. is a must. Plus, a big cockpit is just where we want to hang out.

- Is still "cruise-able". I still want to be able to take my family, through the Trent, Erie Canal system to NYC, and run up to 1000's region for a week or two etc., while the kids still like us. So, space/layout is a big deal for us.

All this and trying to stay smallish (not be 50+ feet) seems tough to find. I know in theory, I guess I could put a lower helm in our Hatt, but that seems like an undertaking I'd rather not tackle if I can avoid it.

So, I figured I'd ask. Any ideas of models that I may have missed in my search?

Thanks very much for any input.

No specific model recommendation, but a lower helm station with pilothouse doors can be very handy when docking. You can step out and handle a midship line while the wife is at the bow or stern. The commercial boats I ran all were set up like this and I almost always helped with the line handling. The flybridge gives way better visibility but you can do anything else from up there. My current boat has upper and lower helms, but no doors at the lower. I find it quicker to come down from the upper than to come up from the lower. (There's not really a ladder to the flybridge, it's a four step stairs). Just something else to consider when choosing a boat.

I have "almost" what you are describing, and it already named that way.

No need to go through the bad luck process of changing the name.

We sold out trawler about 1.5 years ago and bought an express cruiser. We needed something faster in case of an emergency, a situation that no longer exists. My wifes wants were no flybridge, we went with a 41’ Formula. We really like it. But I do miss the flybridge for sight lines.

BTW, we are on our 24th boat, some new and some used. We have never had any bad luck with changing boat names and no ceremonies…

There are intermediate options, such as a boat with a pilothouse. Or a boat with a layout like mine, where there's an aft cabin with a raised deck placing the helm at the front of that deck (but no actual flybridge). That keeps the helm and seating contiguous like an express cruiser, but without the space sacrifices.

There are a few sedan-style trawlers out there including this Willard 40 (sold, but listing is still up). Also available in a pilothouse version, but sounds like you want the all-access of a sedan
https://www.edwardsyachtsales.com/boat/1982/willard-marine/40-trawler/2238/

The Nordic Tugs, while having a raised semi-pilothouse, are open to the galley-saloon and quite social. Here's a 37
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2005-nordic-37-8642018/

You can also search for "Europa" trawlers. Grand Banks made a few (very few). And a few Taiwan Trawlers such as this PT38
https://www.pysystems.ca/about/testimonials/pt38-trawler-cerulean-sea/

Grand Banks 42 Europa
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1999-grand-banks-europa-8563849/

Sabre 42 comes to mind
https://dimillosyachtsales.com/yachts/2018-sabre-42-salon-express/

Tiara 42
https://www.denisonyachtsales.com/y...00-Open-2006-North-Palm-Beach-Florida/8253680

You get the idea - some flavor of express cruiser similar to Comodave's Formula 41.

Peter

I am biased but Hatteras 48LRC is close but has a small cockpit. A Defever 44-49 might meet your needs.
Perhaps a Bayliner or Meridian?

Greetings,
Mr. B. Sounds like a cockpit motor yacht to me.

Hans Christian Independence 45.

Sleeping arrangements may require some thought. Upper and lower helm. Should be able to clear 15' with the mast and antennas down.

This is one, but probably not one I would buy. Think it's also significantly over priced. Been on the market a couple of years.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1988-hans-christian-45-independence-trawler-8432218/

A Krogen 42 might cover most of your desires.

Ted

I'll be curious about the OPs feedback. Several suggestions for PH boats. My read of he and his wife is they want less disconnect between helm and social spaces. That said, a PH is certainly better than am upper helm only.

Peter

Speed requirements? Do you spend time fishing without family, or is it all at the same time?

Browny said:

So, I figured I'd ask. Any ideas of models that I may have missed in my search?

Click to expand...

Bridge style: Any pilothouse (raised or not) boat with flybridge that strikes your fancy.

Express style: Sabre 48 express.

Or their flybridge version, both worlds.



All highly budget dependent.

-Chris

Wow, thanks very much for all the feedback so far. I know the forum that I'm asking, so understand the push for the trawler side of things. But I'm thinking I'll still need more speed at certain times.

We're a young family, our kids are 8, 6 and almost 3, so being able to push the sticks to get to the fishing spots, or better cruising grounds (i.e. not in the middle of the Lake) is still important. Expensive, but important. Also, its seems like most trawler-ish boats, that do have a cockpit are not set up to rig for fishing with Down Riggers or decent rod storage. They also seem to have any cockpit covered, which again doesn't really work for fishing. That too is the problem with the Aft cabin/raised deck boats, next to impossible to fish from.

If it weren't for the fishing part of things, it'd be much easier to reign in this unicorn! The only Model I've come across is the Mikelson Nomands, which are just too many decimal points away from what we could afford at the moment. And I'm still not sure I could slow one down enough to troll.

Fishing definitely makes things a little more challenging. My boat is pretty much entirely unsuitable for fishing, as an example.

Depending on what size cockpit you're ok with fishing from, there may be some CPMY types that would be viable to have both an aft cabin and a short cockpit.

The challenge is still going to be having a good helm that's not on an isolated flybridge. A flybridge on a CPMY may be better, as you have a couple steps down to the aft cabin roof behind the flybridge, giving more space options for the family to be close. Same goes for a pilothouse that either is big enough for everyone to hang out in there, or that's not too isolated where they can come and go easily.

mvweebles said:

There are a few sedan-style trawlers out there including this Willard 40 (sold, but listing is still up). Also available in a pilothouse version, but sounds like you want the all-access of a sedan
https://www.edwardsyachtsales.com/boat/1982/willard-marine/40-trawler/2238/

The Nordic Tugs, while having a raised semi-pilothouse, are open to the galley-saloon and quite social. Here's a 37
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2005-nordic-37-8642018/

You can also search for "Europa" trawlers. Grand Banks made a few (very few). And a few Taiwan Trawlers such as this PT38
https://www.pysystems.ca/about/testimonials/pt38-trawler-cerulean-sea/

Grand Banks 42 Europa
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1999-grand-banks-europa-8563849/

Sabre 42 comes to mind
https://dimillosyachtsales.com/yachts/2018-sabre-42-salon-express/

Tiara 42
https://www.denisonyachtsales.com/y...00-Open-2006-North-Palm-Beach-Florida/8253680

You get the idea - some flavor of express cruiser similar to Comodave's Formula 41.

Peter

Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to research these listings, and share, Peter. Much appreciated. I love the Sabre, Hinkley, DE style boats. I almost prefer them to the bridge boats....almost. Just wish I could find one somewhat compact, as our marina is tight and I we have a primo slip.

Very on track with the express cruiser style, thanks!

May I suggest the Bayliner 4588/4788 Motor Yacht? 3 staterooms with bunks in 1, 2 heads with showers, pilothouse lower helm with indoor stairs to the flybridge. Large cockpit, 250-370 hp twin diesels for faster cruising and low speed economy. Certainly would address most of your wife's concerns and tick most of your boxes.
On your current boat, why not share helm responsibilities with your wife, then she can sit on the flybridge with "auto". On our 38 we share helm duties at least 50/50.

James

Browny said:

Thanks for taking the time to research these listings, and share, Peter. Much appreciated. I love the Sabre, Hinkley, DE style boats. I almost prefer them to the bridge boats....almost. Just wish I could find one somewhat compact, as our marina is tight and I we have a primo slip.



Very on track with the express cruiser style, thanks!

Click to expand...

Budget? Specific size constraints?

Keep the 36 Hatteras. That and a 38 Bertram best fishing machine made.

Trade the wife.

Greetings,
Mr. C.

Jeff F said:

Budget? Specific size constraints?

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Wallet speaking, I'd like to be around $150ish +/- a bit her an there. I'm honestly more into the boat than my wife is, but if we found something that was damn near spot on I think we could push the numbers. No way to justify any of it, as we have a short season, kids in sports and a camper etc..

Choices said:

Keep the 36 Hatteras. That and a 38 Bertram best fishing machine made.

Trade the wife.

Click to expand...

LOL - Nah, I'd go to rehab to kick the boat addition before trading her. Not to mention, trading will really split that boat budget up!!

READY said:

I am biased but Hatteras 48LRC is close but has a small cockpit. A Defever 44-49 might meet your needs.
Perhaps a Bayliner or Meridian?

Click to expand...

If I could get my way of working remotely and cruising south, it would be in an LRC. I love our Hatt, and the build quality of the old gal.

Bayliner 38xx are really great family boats. They are getting a bit long in the tooth and condition suffers a bit, but maybe something in the upper midwest where they are often stored in climate controlled warehouses for the winter. On the negative side, while they have a lower helm, its not great visibility. But at least a bit of boat-porn for you to peek at

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1991-bayliner-3888-motoryacht-8407628/

Peter

mvweebles said:

Bayliner 38xx are really great family boats. They are getting a bit long in the tooth and condition suffers a bit, but maybe something in the upper midwest where they are often stored in climate controlled warehouses for the winter. On the negative side, while they have a lower helm, its not great visibility. But at least a bit of boat-porn for you to peek at

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1991-bayliner-3888-motoryacht-8407628/

Peter

Click to expand...

I didn't mention those because of the mediocre lower helm and ladder to the flybridge, but there is room for decent seating up on the bridge at least.

Finding decent examples in the Great Lakes isn't impossible, although there aren't a ton around. And unless they're the later models with higher powered engines, they're not all that fast. There was a 1990-ish 3888 that came up for sale locally in the fall, but I can't find the listing anymore, so I think it may have sold.



While I was looking, I did come across this one that I've seen around a few times (and looks well cared for): https://rcryachts.com/yacht-details...k-united-states-yacht-for-sale&vessel=2795764

I would say a 36 foot Hattie would be perfect.

pete

Why not add a lower helm to the Hat? Presuming you have forward facing windows on the house as most older SF's did.

I had upper and lower helms on my 36 Chris Sportfish and used the lower 90% of the time for the same reasons you mention.

Now that my kids are a bit older than yours its more relaxing to operate from the FB, with the wife upstairs too. Having both is nice in my opinion!

Browny
A Tollycraft 45 fits your expectations. They've stood the test of time.

sunchaser said:

Browny
A Tollycraft 45 fits your expectations. They've stood the test of time.

Click to expand...

I like the Tolly's, even tried to make a deal on a few 34's before our we bought our Hatt but never could make it work.

I just don't think a CPMY will really help at all when fishing. If anything I think the captain would be farther away from the action than on a bridge.

Browny
You’re right on the fishing although I’ve seen plenty of salmon and halibut caught on the T45. Getting to the FB on the T45 is a snap

Tolly made a few sedan/ sport fishing models that are highlighted by the 46(?). Their design was based upon exiting the Columbia and fishing far offshore in the Pacific.

Luhrs and Ocean are two others that get high marks. Both in the mid $100k range if well cared for. Lots of other sport fishing models come to mind but FB access is via ladder.

Short of a tournament sport fish or an express cruiser with a fishing oriented cockpit, I can't think of a lot of boats where the captain would be close to the fishing action.

Close to the action the rest of the time is easier, but for fishing, you pretty much end up with the compromise of a low profile boat to keep the helmsman in the cockpit, or the extremely short flybridge (or compromised interior for a cockpit helm and then flybridge above) of a tournament sport fish so the captain is pretty much perched above the cockpit.