Can the Cruise Industry survive ?

I wonder if we are more susceptible to the more mundane infections and viruses because we have been so isolated. For 2 years we weren't riding in crowed elevators, touching public restroom doorknobs and being sneezed on in the subway. Is it possible our immune systems got lazy and will need some time to get back into fighting shape ?

Greetings,
Mr. B. I think you're correct (post#841). In Ontario, Canada and perhaps in other provinces there has been a significant increase in RSV among children. One report postulated that due to isolation during the height of Covid, children were not exposed to the virus and their usual natural immunity acquired by being in contact with other children waned making them much more susceptible to infection after restrictions were relaxed and children started "mingling" again. Evidently, natural immunity is very short lived so that 2 years or so of non-contact left them more vulnerable to infection.



https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ario-here-are-10-things-you-need-to-know.html


https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/it-s-...on-the-rise-leaving-parents-worried-1.6124430

Benthic2 said:

I wonder if we are more susceptible to the more mundane infections and viruses because we have been so isolated. ... get back into fighting shape ?

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Seems perfectly plausible to me. Powerful argument for the seasonal flu shot! I threw in pertussis, tetanus and shingrix (okay, I know the last two don't really count.)

Hippocampus said:

G9 please give data as to vaccination rates. Please post how many have received the two boosters. Please then compare morbidity and mortality rates for those who have completed the complete program to whose who have not.
You are correct vaccination does work. The science is settled. Fully vaccinated people are less like to get sick enough as to require hospitalization or die.
Yes as the virus has evolved it has become more resistant to the vaccines people have received the past but the sarcasm of your posts is refuted by science.

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Oh no. You fed a troll. Look where it has led.

B you’re right, my mistake.

There was a fall in numbers of flu cases and related deaths during the period of stricter public mandates. Influenza mutates fairly rapidly hence the need for repetitive vaccination. Having had it before has little impact on risk of infection in future years. Similarly the need to stay up on vaccination.
However there’s some merit to thinking challenges from any and all aerosol/droplet communicated infectious agents were decreased by the nonspecific public health measures. If you’re not exposed to vectors of transmission (other people) your immune system is less challenged. Question is what impact this has on the memory cells in your immune system. For some agents not a lot (think measles). For others (many of the respiratory viruses) there’s some. For others none at all. For Covid as it mutates you can get it over and over. RSV is of greatest risk to premies. They can be vaccinated against it. But it’s unlikely that will be done to the general population. Multiple factors influence flu rates of infection, severity of illness and death rate but the genetics of the circulating variant would seem to lead the list.

Benthic2 said:

I wonder if we are more susceptible to the more mundane infections and viruses because we have been so isolated. For 2 years we weren't riding in crowed elevators, touching public restroom doorknobs and being sneezed on in the subway. Is it possible our immune systems got lazy and will need some time to get back into fighting shape ?

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There is another theoretical reason, for why this could be happening, based on how MRNA vaccines work, but I hesitate to go any farther than just mentioning it, to avoid an unpleasant discussion. This possibility was predicted by some virologists a couple of years ago at the start of the Covid vaccination program.

Best to research stuff like that on your own and come to your own conclusion (use DuckDuckGo, to get the most search results).

(Hoping I didn't unleash hell with this post! )

This article speaks about cruise lines data and the recent covid protocol changes...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/ne...pc=U531&cvid=3a596b7517894862a35a94adeb91ba31

(Hoping I didn't unleash hell with this post! )

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Naw, no one knows what you are talking about.

The new bug is respiratory illness in children that were not vaccinated overwhelming hospitals. Survival of the fittest comes to mind on a new level.

Greetings,
Mr. SK. RSV is NOT a "new bug". It was first isolated in 1956. It is only recently that clinical trials have started to develop a vaccine. None, AFAIK have been licensed, thus far.

Hawaii also called ammo stores critical and open because locals hunt wild pigs and it's a food source. Liquor stores stayed open for.... well, you know. But barber shops closed so to get a haircut was like finding a "speak easy" in the '20s. I tested negative twice but since I flew over with a False pos passenger, I was quarantined for 24 Days! Thank Gawd we had a nice house private pool and spa and not a condo, would be like solitary confinement. And the false pos passenger? She was only quarantined for 10 days, lived with me and was free to move about the Island, sleep in my bed while I was quarantined with a guy coming by every day to check on me. I don't call that logical, but what do I know. Still, quarantined in Hawaii is not a bad way to go

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. SK. RSV is NOT a "new bug". It was first isolated in 1956. It is only recently that clinical trials have started to develop a vaccine. None, AFAIK have been licensed, thus far.

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Thank you my eastern friend.
But then covid-19 was not new either, just the variant(s), a new strain perhaps. As we evolve and become immune a new variant attacks. Covid-19 is part of the coronavirus family.

SteveK said:

Naw, no one knows what you are talking about.
...

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The NIH, among others, certainly does.

Reasonable concerns come with any new therapy as they should.
Long term outcomes along with changes in health stats are being studied.

SteveK said:

Thank you my eastern friend.
But then covid-19 was not new either, just the variant(s), a new strain perhaps. As we evolve and become immune a new variant attacks. Covid-19 is part of the coronavirus family.

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It's in the name: i.e, identified in 2019.
Still considered so novel that there was no comparable outbreak for 100+ years.

This can be called a "blind test", "open test", "looking closely test" or any other type of "test" you may like. I call it: Our "Family/friend living-life test".

Test Sequence

- Week or two before Covid-19 gained its official name: Linda came back from Texas family visit. Within two days she became so sick [respiratory wise] that I called our health provider's advice nurse. Was touch and go for several days as to if 911 ambulance ride to ER needed to be brought into the mix. She eventually began to clear up - the main poor-health portion of that infection time was not completely over for a few weeks. Ongoing complications did not fully clear up for couple months. Family in Texas [two parents then in late 40's / two grand Kids 6 and 8 yrs.] had no sickness. During Linda's severe bout of what we [with similar conditions] then had figured was simply a really bad case of the flu [because of pre C-19 recognition/naming] that Linda had contracted on the plane [we guess]... I too became quite ill for a while [also with similar conditions]... but I was no where near as ill as Linda.

- After C-19 became global pandemic: We realized the illness bout mentioned above was most likely Covid! In all it's glory!

- Year later: Basically same occurred as mentioned in first paragraph - Again, most likely due to returning to CA home plane ride. This time, both Linda and I had been on same flight. We both came down with C-19 within a day or so of each other. Although it was rough time in the depths of that time's sickness event... we both survived.

- About year after that: We went on Ruby Princess [980' tour boat] Alaska Cruise. Six of us were a "party" booked on the cruise... at end of 10 day cruise - three of us six had C-19. Linda did, I didn't... at first after the cruise. However, within a week home, I did catch it from Linda while caring for her. Was fairly bad bout for us both - but less "Bad" than previous bouts.

- Not long after that a family member "Bobby" - an early 50's rough/tough semi tractor truck driver caught Covid while away on the road. He pushed through sick for a couple days to get home. Was immediately ambulanced to hospital. Died the next day! ****!!!!

- Couple weeks ago: Linda and I spent 6 days in Florida at Disney World with same family members [that live in Texas] mentioned in the first paragraph listed under "Test Sequence" above. Linda had Covid soon thereafter. None other of us others caught it. Linda's bout was surely debilitating - but less so than her others experienced. She's still recuperating and I'm playing nurse. This time... I have not stayed anywhere near Linda, but for minutes at a time [nurse duty - don't cha know LOL] and have [so far] not contracted C-19.

Long and the short of this "Family/friend living-life test". I depicted above...

Covid-19 = Bad Fing Sickness!! / Get every shot well agreed upon by medical professionals such as boosters etc [we did and feel the shots lessened C-19 severity]. Take C-19 seriously each time it afflicts, rest, get med help if needed. Stay out of crowded places [planes/ships/busses/trains] s much as possible. But - Don't Stop Living Life!!!



EDIT: While writing this post Linda was still asleep in morning. Upon her waking I went into bring items she might desire and to start fire in a really nice wood stove we have in bedroom. Unfortunately, even though the last couple days seemed to show health improvements... appears she has backslid. Advice nurse [we already spoke with a few days ago] told us the medications they administered to Linda during previous C-19 ordeal no longer worked on this "new" strain. Time will tell the outcome...

KnotYet said:

The NIH, among others, certainly does.

Reasonable concerns come with any new therapy as they should.
Long term outcomes along with changes in health stats are being studied.

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KnotYet said:

It's in the name: i.e, identified in 2019.
Still considered so novel that there was no comparable outbreak for 100+ years.

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and the cali dreamer has the answers.

Art, I hope your wife starts to feel better.

I misspoke. No licensed vaccine. Know of kids receiving “A vaccine called GSK3888550A and developed by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) entered phase 3 clinical trials in November 2020.[6] Barney S. Graham and Peter Kwong of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases'”. Believe this will be licensed shortly.

SteveK said:

and the cali dreamer has the answers.

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In the spirit of that reply, "Sticks and stones..."

Best wishes to Mrs.Art. I had antivirals, tested negative briefly after completing the course, then positive again. Keep managing it, ready to push the panic button if you need to.
We successfully avoided the virus for nearly 3 years, wave after wave, but were positive within 6 days of boarding a cruise ship. Lesson learned, the hard way. Negative now but still somewhat symptomatic, GP says your immune system is shot afterwards, watch for opportunistic infections.

Unless you are fond of eating road kill and other such nasties, you get sick from being around people who are sick. The more people and the closer you are the better for getting sick.

Yeah, avoid being close to a lot of people indoors. Yeah Boats!

Gawd Art, you've had enuff for all of us. Hope she is feeling better. I feel incredibly lucky as I am the one who usually gets everything, Dingy Fever, Typhoid, Shingles, pneumonia, you name it. I'm high risk at 74 yrs old, but I figure I just don't have enuff years left to waste hiding out. I certainly, don't want to demean those that choose to hide out and be cautious, it's got to be a personal decision, the right answer for each of us.

@Art, Sorry it took so long for me to express my sadness about you & your wife experience. I got distracted and missed your post. My thoughts are with you and wishing a final speedy recovery for your wife and no more repeat events.
My wife and I have tested positive once after being infected by a friend who must travel. Thankfully, we are well vaccinated and only felt flu like symptoms. It was concerning to say the least. Now I do wonder about lasting, recurring issues and side effects every time I get a sniffle or a cough.
Got to live every day like it could be the last sunset.

Thanks to all who posted concerns! C-19 is not to be fooled with! Get shots etc... Be careful!!

Go boating. Covid can't swim!!

BruceK said:

Best wishes to Mrs.Art. I had antivirals, tested negative briefly after completing the course, then positive again. Keep managing it, ready to push the panic button if you need to.
We successfully avoided the virus for nearly 3 years, wave after wave, but were positive within 6 days of boarding a cruise ship. Lesson learned, the hard way. Negative now but still somewhat symptomatic, GP says your immune system is shot afterwards, watch for opportunistic infections.

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Thanks for asking Bruce... As answer to your concerned PM: Good and bad +/-. Linda got over C-19. Then pneumonia took hold. She's on anti biotics. Weak, but all in all doing better that the depths of C-19 a week or so ago. Six more days on anti bios. Then... maybe... she'll get a clearing of the illness barrage that struck her hard since we flew back from FL. So far... I'm remaining A-OK. Can't find a nursing hat that fits! LOL

Art,my GP said the immune system is "shot"(? exhausted) post Covid, predisposing to other infections. I`m on antibiotics too, fortunately not as ill as Linda. Hope it goes well.

We emailed Carnival/Princess 4 times regarding our unsatisfactory experiences and requesting cancellation of a cruise booked for May23. No response at all.

Eventually we found and used a cancellation page.

There are some "good" deals available, eg 17 night Cunard cruise from Singapore to Sydney, balcony cabin, flights to Singapore, 2 hotel nights pre cruise. $4000 AUD. It may suggest difficulty filling ships.
Friends just caught Covid on a cruise ship this month. We are "living with" Covid these days (some are still "dying of"), zero restrictions, but it appears prospects of infection rise significantly on a cruise ship. At present, for us, not worth the risk.


This online search result accords with my thoughts:

"Is there any COVID on cruise ships?
Cruise ships and COVID-19

Although operators have taken steps to improve infection control, cruise ships continue to experience COVID-19 outbreaks, affecting passengers and seafarers. The confined setting on board and combination of multiple households enables COVID-19 to spread faster than it is able to elsewhere."

Here`s a snapshot of Covid on cruise ships. It`s still there. The Tier rating depends on the ship disclosure. Our November cruise was Tier3.
Tier level

Vessels

Tier 3
High impact to vessel
There are a lot of cases on board (100 or more positive cases per 1,000 people) and/or the vessel is unable to maintain critical services due to staffing or resource shortages.
No vessels currently.
Tier 2
Moderate impact to vessel
There are quite a few cases on board (30-99 positive cases per 1,000 people) and/or the vessel’s staffing or resources are impacted. However, it can safely maintain critical services.
No vessels currently.
Tier 1
No - low impact to vessel
There are very few cases on board (less than 30 positive cases per 1,000 people), and there is no impact to critical services such as healthcare, engineering, cleaning, food and beverage.
Carnival Splendor
Arriving Sydney 25/1/23
Updated 23/1/23
Pacific Adventure
Arriving Sydney 24/1/23
Updated 23/1/23
Ovation of the Seas
Arriving Sydney 24/1/23
Updated 23/1/23


When I checked this site several days back, although ships were arriving, there were no Tier 1 ships listed.

Benthic2 said:

I wonder if we are more susceptible to the more mundane infections and viruses because we have been so isolated. For 2 years we weren't riding in crowed elevators, touching public restroom doorknobs and being sneezed on in the subway. Is it possible our immune systems got lazy and will need some time to get back into fighting shape ?

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Unfortunately, there may be another explanation. Time will tell.

https://www.rintrah.nl/the-trainwre...f-people-stuck-with-a-broken-immune-response/

http://https://www.rintrah.nl/new-evidence-of-persistent-spike-protein-tolerance-from-breakthrough-infections/

I'm not sure if we will ever be free of Covid, my guess is probably not.

Even if we are free of Covid there are plenty of reasons for me to hate these monsters.

pete

G9 the first citation is bad pseudo science. First the initial sentence is wrong. With peanut allergies only 22% will outgrow it or no longer be allergic regardless of therapy. Same range of numbers for bee sting.
Second in multiple studies vaccines and subsequent boosters decrease the risk of death, ICU admission and serious illness. Current thinking is repetitive vaccination produces a reasonably durable T-cell response. The nonsense about IgG3 or 4 is irrelevant. What’s important is phase 4 and epidemiology studies consistently showing benefits in decreasing death and serious illness rates. As a poster here has said “science doesn’t care what you believe “.
Your second link doesn’t work so no comment made.

May I suggest you read
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21124094/ To further understanding of IgG4