define; "Overall length"

From: "Al Johnson" <ajohnson@kpunet.net>
To: "Al Johnson" <ajohnson@kpunet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 3:59:22 PM
Subject: chb length




Here is the issue and need: Stall length limitation are maximum overall length 33'.(10% over length-30-foot stall by design)


Here is the question: Assuming overall measurements of a 34-foot CHB includes the anchor rest (anchor?) and the swim step. Is this a correct assumption?


The solution if this is accurate, to obtain a 33-foot max overall would necessitate removal of the anchor rest or modifying by making the rest a folding unit, or install a brass flip style anchor device, remove the forward stainless handrail and install new sloping handrails from a determined location mid-ship to taper down behind the bow cap. Remove the swim step.

Would these actions bring the overall length to 33' or do these suggested modifications equal more the physical hull length of stated "34" over all?

When I wander alongside models of this craft, the ability to accurately measure in the water is a challenge. Hoping that some soul had accomplished such a measurement for their needs.
Cheers,
Al

On older boats, measurements were all over the place. Published LOA for my boat excluded the pulpit and swim platform. Newer boats are usually much better about giving the true LOA.

In a marina, when they say LOA (Length Over All), they mean the furthest point forward in the bow to the furthest point rearward in the stern, whether in the water, touching the water, or in the air. My Cherubini Independence 45 is 50', LOA.

Ted

For Coast Guard and various State licensing purposes, LOA generally excludes swim step, anchor pulpit, aft davit, and even the outboard motor. My trawler sold as 30 foot and is federally documented as 30 foot. Marinas will have none of that and I pay for 32' (even though I'm 33.5'. Shhhhh). My C-Dory 16 was listed as 16 foot on the Washington State registration and therefore had an additional $75 added on each year when licensing (under 16 doesn't pay that). C-Dory lists the hull as 15' 11" per the Coast Guard. I was able to contest the registration, change my title, and now save $75 a year because it is under 16 foot. In the real world, it measures 18.5" overall and the Washington State Ferries charge me for that length.

So length overall depends on where you are and who is measuring.

I once explained to a dock mate that LOA means the distance starting at the furthest portion or a boat, if bow that generally means the tip of the anchor, to a point in the stern where the owner of the boat will not get mad if you sweep a running chainsaw through it. . . . He got my drift right away . . . , and the LOA he was stating suddenly grew by abut 3 feet!

I believe overall length is defined as dimension measured from bow pulpit to aftmost point of stern multiplied by .2 percent of vessel appraisal and adjusted by tax bracket of recorded owner. I think.

Our Tolly is registered and insured as a 34'er... such as proclaimed by Tollycraft manufacturing. LOA measurement from forward Danforth anchor's glide-edge on its short metal pulpit to rear most radius edge of swim step is 36'8" [+/- an inch - I call it 37' LOA] that number never comes into question, as 34' always works well for charges in docking, haul outs and bottom paints. In this area of Nor CA slips are rented by their foot-length and usually change by 5' increments. I always rent a 40' slip... no muss no fuss.

AquaDestiny said:

I believe overall length is defined as dimension measured from bow pulpit to aftmost point of stern multiplied by .2 percent of vessel appraisal and adjusted by tax bracket of recorded owner. I think.

Click to expand...

What!!!!!????

Art said:

Our Tolly is registered and insured as a 34'er... such as proclaimed by Tollycraft manufacturing. LOA measurement from forward Danforth anchor's glide-edge on its short metal pulpit to rear most radius edge of swim step is 36'8" [+/- an inch - I call it 37' LOA] that number never comes into question, as 34' always works well for charges in docking, haul outs and bottom paints. In this area of Nor CA slips are rented by their foot-length and usually change by 5' increments. I always rent a 40' slip... no muss no fuss.

Click to expand...

Hi Art, I was on a long list for the next class 34'-up, and when one came up almost a year later, the finger was almost 45 degrees list so I declined and am making this effort to obtain a CHB and keep it short enough to stay in my stall. I am thinking after these informative posts to coral a certified harbor person and have them walk down to a local 34 CHB and we can obtain a "Local" determination of the "Official Ketchikan Harbor Master"

measurement. Will get back to the site soonest, Cheers

Agree that the overall length means, at least here, literally from the anchor tip to the back of what ever hangs off the swimgrid. The entire length of the boat all accessories included.

My 32' actual hull length is OVERALL 37' and that is what I tell the marinas so they can fit me into the proper slip.

Otherwise you may end up in a to short slip.

I'm more concerned in visiting port is that that the berth is too narrow for my width, being a fat boat.

Many 70's berths are designed for an eight-width boat, while I'm at thirteen

My 44 foot Gypsy just fits in a 50 foot slip. The anchor is just a little over the dock and the Nick Jackson is just a little into the river.

Greetings my old Friend!

Hope all is well with you these days and hope I might shed some light on your situation.

Our Pairadice was documented as a 47’ vessel and through all of our travels we got away with her being a 47 when requesting dock space because after all, that’s what it said on both sides of the Pilot house. Well, almost all places!

It seemed to us that while seeking a transit slip on almost all places we traveled to, they accepted the CC Documentation stated length of 47’. However, while mooring her in a marina in Portland, Oregon we were measured by the marina staff and they determined that we were in fact 52.5 ft overall. This measurement was from the furthest point of the anchor (while in the pulpit) to the very back of the swim platform (with the swim platform in the down position. We could fold it up in a vertical position and gain 2.5 ft less overall length).
Most marina’s would allow us to back into a slip and if the swim platform was down and not quite touching the dock we would exceed the other end of the dock a couple of feet and no one would complain, as we usally were charged for the slip length versus overall length.
This was the case for virtually all marinas we traveled to all the way down the west coast, through the Panama Canal and back up to the east coast. Until we decided to park for 6 months or so in Hilton Head, South Carolina. There we could only acquire a 50’ slip and we had to fold up the swim platform in order to fit by there rules. And it was a very tight fit for us.

Which is a long way to say, I think you will run into the same problem there in K town. But as I recall, lots of the fishing fleet there in K Town exceeded the overall length of the docks by more than a couple of feet.

So put on your dancing rain boots and try sweet talking the marina guru’s and plead the 5th or what ever gives you the best results.

Hope for the best, buddy!

Cheers, John

USCG "length overall" and Marina LOA are 2 different things.

USCG LOA includes swim platforms that are part of the hull but not bolt on ones. Nor add on pulpits, just the molded, part of the hull if substantial.

Marinas just care what "fits". Some care about ANY overhang, others a bit less so.

You don't need all that bow do you? My 34 DC measures 36' overall, I think

Al said:

Hi Art, I was on a long list for the next class 34'-up, and when one came up almost a year later, the finger was almost 45 degrees list so I declined and am making this effort to obtain a CHB and keep it short enough to stay in my stall. I am thinking after these informative posts to coral a certified harbor person and have them walk down to a local 34 CHB and we can obtain a "Local" determination of the "Official Ketchikan Harbor Master" measurement. Will get back to the site soonest, Cheers

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Yep, for a strict marina's version of OAL, ignore the name on the boat, ignore the USCG document, measure tip to tail.

Typically marinas will have taken into account fairway distances and so forth, potential for damage to pulpits if they extend over X far from a slip, etc.

-Chris

My boat length varies. If paying for dockage it's hull length. When someone asks me the size of my boat, it's LOA rounded up to the nearest foot, never down.

backinblue said:

My boat length varies. If paying for dockage it's hull length. When someone asks me the size of my boat, it's LOA rounded up to the nearest foot, never down.

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That make it: A "Boat" for docking purposes? and A "Yacht" in conversations!!

exactly!

Hmmm, are you buying or selling?

pete

CharlieO. said:

You don't need all that bow do you? My 34 DC measures 36' overall, I think

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What you see in this post is a boat that has fishing permit restricting the owner to a boat of 30’ length.

tiltrider1 said:

What you see in this post is a boat that has fishing permit restricting the owner to a boat of 30’ length.

Click to expand...

Correct, but I thought it was 32' limit. They are all over Cook Inlet and Bristol Bay.

Al said:

Hi Art, I was on a long list for the next class 34'-up, and when one came up almost a year later, the finger was almost 45 degrees list so I declined and am making this effort to obtain a CHB and keep it short enough to stay in my stall. I am thinking after these informative posts to coral a certified harbor person and have them walk down to a local 34 CHB and we can obtain a "Local" determination of the "Official Ketchikan Harbor Master"

measurement. Will get back to the site soonest, Cheers

Click to expand...

I think this is the best way to go about it. In this context, what matters is the Port of Ketchikan's definition, and nothing else.

What boat lengths are and what we say they are - are similar to my 22 yr. [born on Christmas Day!] grandson's height.


In kitchen entry edge... Using a torpedo level, him standing tall and bare feet on floor... best I can get for him = 6'3.33". I like to round it up! Often mentioning to other grand folks he's 6'4"!

Regarding me... Was 6'1" when young. With 70 yr. old knee-joints and back-spine, after hands-on working masonry and concrete as owner of my decades in business building company, I imagine 5'11" may be now pushing the bubble! But what the heck... I don't plan to measure to find out anytime soon!! If I wear thick sole, big heal work boots - who knows!! And really - Who Cares??!! LOL

Our boat is a Mainship 430, so 43 feet, right? If you add the anchor and the swimstep it is 47 feet. If we have the dinghy hanging on the davit it is 52 feet. I know this because a marina in BC measured it with a wheel thingy. However, it is Coast Guard documented at 41 feet. That happens to be the waterline. The only thing that really matters is what marinas charge for, and that is 52 feet. Sometimes I miss our Camano Troll at 31 feet overall.

All I have to do to determine the length of my boat is ask a harbormaster. They seem to know exactly how long boat is. I think the boat swells up sitting at a dock, gets longer every time.

Stem to stern …. And that’s it. All of it

LOA is simple . E.g. If you wanted to ship your boat in a 40’ box and it doesn’t fit your LOa is more then 40’ . I don’t care what attachments you have or how you pretend you are 38’

Really?

If you use the USCG LOA measurement, it will not be the same as what many marinas measure.

The USCG LOA is a legal term...what fits in a box is not....but I know some marinas are anal about the measurement of greatest "length".

Without specifying which one you are discussing is just showing lack of experience....like the 50A service mindless discussion.

Sometimes a little ambiguity is a good thing.

I recently had a discussion with my insurance broker when considering a longer boat. She came back with a hard stop on LOA, but no other concerns.

I have three numbers for my boat, and like it that way [emoji3]