Autopilot MS350/390

I’m getting a Garmin Autopilot and have a tech doing the work; He tech was going to install the pump by the upper helm as it would be easiest and least labor but Garmin says that the pump needs to be as close to the ram as possible. This is because the Shadow drive component might accidentally engage which would disconnect the AP if the pump is not close to the ram. The shadow drive is intended to temporarily disengage the AP when you need to hand steer, a very valuable feature I think.

Anyway, to avoid issues, I’m going to have him install it as Garmin suggests. Soooooo, would any of you with a 350 or 390 let me know where your pump is and if close to ram be able to provide specifics. Thank you in advance

On my father's 390 it is in the storage area below the lower helm. Works well but he doesn't have the shadow drive.

I would insist it be installed according to Garmin's instructions. Garmin made that note for a reason.

Lshulan said:

I’m getting a Garmin Autopilot and have a tech doing the work; He tech was going to install the pump by the upper helm as it would be easiest and least labor but Garmin says that the pump needs to be as close to the ram as possible. This is because the Shadow drive component might accidentally engage which would disconnect the AP if the pump is not close to the ram. The shadow drive is intended to temporarily disengage the AP when you need to hand steer, a very valuable feature I think.

Anyway, to avoid issues, I’m going to have him install it as Garmin suggests. Soooooo, would any of you with a 350 or 390 let me know where your pump is and if close to ram be able to provide specifics. Thank you in advance

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I just took delivery of a 2009 MS34T this fall, and Autopilot is on the top of my list.

Would love to hear details of your install and which Garman Autopilot/pump you use?

Boiler 81 - this is the unit I’m getting, was strongly recommended for the hefty pump and integrated features such as the shadow drive: GARMIN REACTOR™ 40 HYDRAULIC COREPACK WITH SMARTPUMP V2 &
GHC 50. I’m also getting a Garmin remote for the lower helm for two reasons, very little space to mount a full sized display and also can saving about $500. The unit is a little expensive but I think it is worth the small difference between it and other brands. And from everything I’ve researched, really need a suitably sized pump for our boats which really adds up the price

Lshulan said:

Boiler 81 - this is the unit I’m getting, was strongly recommended for the hefty pump and integrated features such as the shadow drive: GARMIN REACTOR™ 40 HYDRAULIC COREPACK WITH SMARTPUMP V2 &
GHC 50. I’m also getting a Garmin remote for the lower helm for two reasons, very little space to mount a full sized display and also can saving about $500. The unit is a little expensive but I think it is worth the small difference between it and other brands. And from everything I’ve researched, really need a suitably sized pump for our boats which really adds up the price

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Been looking at the same system with the GHC 20, since I have limited space on my upper helm dash. Not sure what the GHC 20 gives up to the GHC 50 but don't think I have room for it. I like the idea of using the wireless remote for the infrequent lower helm piloting.

Mine is installed on the shelf under the aft most lazerette hatch right beside the steering ram. I couldn't image installing it adjacent to either helm stations.

Shrew - thanks, my tech is coming on Friday to look at that location, would seem to be perfect. Question though, is there a hydraulic line going from the autopilot pump to either helm station, looking at the installation instructions it seems to indicate this. On your if so, what does it hook up to at the helm?

So, my tech visited my boat today and said he’d have no problem mounting the autopilot pump on the shelf by the steering ram. However, now a new problem. He said that he’d have to connect a return line to the power steering pump which is apparently nowhere near the steering ram. So, here’s the question, where is the power steering pump and how do you access it? And if it’s up on the flybridge, how do you access it to run a hose from the stern up to the bridge Any help would be greatly appreciated

auto pilot MS 350/390

happy holidays everyone,
I have a 98 MS 350 with a yanmar 315 single. I had a GHC 20 installed 5 years ago with the hydraulics(GHP reactor smartpump) installed in the lower helm area below the nav panel. Very tight area to work in connecting hoses. We installed the compass in the closet forward wall on the port side as close to boat centerline as possible. Easy run for cable management back to helm station. We opted not to install the shadow drive which would require a lot more labor but has worked out great. Still easy to override A/P and can put in standby mode. Very happy with the setup and would definitely do this again. I would get a GHC remote to use on the upper helm and around the boat. If you can buy a garmin G2 vision hd for your area, it's a whole new world with it

Happy new year
J.T.

J T Kearney - do you happen to know where the power steering pump is located? We will be putting in the same system and a return line from the Garmin pump is suppose to go to the power steering pump. Or if you know other info, please advise.

from what I recall,all the hydraulics were attached to the bulkhed wall below the lower helm station. We stole the power from an abandoned charging line that went to the windless battery originally. I'm 4 hrs from the boat but will be there in a few weeks. Hopefully will be able to to get some pictures and more info for you.

Cheers
J.T

Thanks, if you do get a chance to confirm, that would be great Have a merry Christmas

auto pilot MS 350/390

give me some latitude on getting to my boat. The Cascade passes have been closed quiet often, but i'll make a run for it if a 3 day window opens.

happy new years
J.T.

First, I want to thank everyone who responded to my query regarding the location of the power steering pump. It was a wild goose chase, my tech had told me he needed the location of the power steering pump without really knowing whether the system used one. From my research and reading of the installation and owners manual that the PO had thoughtfully maintained and left me, it clearly shows that the system a simple hydraulic system. And on page 14 of the manual, it states that the autopilot compensating line can be teed into the existing compensating line that runs between the two helms or directly into the bottom port of one of the helms. It wouldn’t have needed to go to the power steering pump in anycase!

So, I apologize for wasting your time on this quest and hopefully this will end this thread until such time as the installation is complete and working (in the spring).

I guess I didn’t tell the truth on my last post because it wasn’t the last one on this topic, sorry, but does anyone know how to access the lower helm steering? It doesn’t appear to be accessible after lifting the top of the helm station and I don’t see an easy way to remove the entire front of the station. I do see several large screws(bolts) heads behind the wheel going into the round block that offsets the wheel from the front of the station. Could it be that easy to simply unscrew them and then be able to pull the wheel out? If not, I’m at a loss as to how to get to the back of the steering assembly. Has anyone actually gotten to the back of it? I’m reluctant to start unscrewing things without knowing what they are attached to. Would really really appreciate any help on this.

My hydraulic hoses are tied into my steering hydraulics right there in the stern by the ram itself. The entire hydraulic system is on large system. There is no reason (that I can think of) to run a line from the AP pump all the way to the helm.

Shrew said:

There is no reason (that I can think of) to run a line from the AP pump all the way to the helm.

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A quick peek at a generator in a 350 or 390 kept in salt water will show that the lazarette is a corrosive environment. Even boats with well-maintained packing glands tend to struggle to keep rust and electrical corrosion at bay. That seems like a decent reason to locate the pump and AP computer elsewhere and therefore tie into the hydraulic system elsewhere.

Both Garmin and SeaStar say that a compensating line must be run to the steering helm, usually the bottom port of the lower helm since the top port should have a hose going to the flybridge steering helm. So while we can tie into the lines at the stern, we still need to get to the lower helm steering for the compensating line.

We were able to connect our hyd lines to the lower helm without removing any panels.Smaller hands that knew what they where doing. Lots of oil pads.

OK and thanks, will look again

Gdavid said:

A quick peek at a generator in a 350 or 390 kept in salt water will show that the lazarette is a corrosive environment. Even boats with well-maintained packing glands tend to struggle to keep rust and electrical corrosion at bay. That seems like a decent reason to locate the pump and AP computer elsewhere and therefore tie into the hydraulic system elsewhere.

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My AP computer is not in that space. The scope of the discussion was the AP pump.

I also didn't say it couldn't be located elsewhere or shouldn't be located elsewhere. If you look back, had stated that I couldn't imagine where at the helm stations it could be located. (This is merely because of space).

In another statement I did say I wasn't clear on why you'd need to send hydraulic line all the way to the helm. However, my lower helm line could be routing to the AP pump first and passing through the pump. I never traced the line from the helm to that space specifically.

Shrew said:

My AP computer is not in that space. The scope of the discussion was the AP pump.

I also didn't say it couldn't be located elsewhere or shouldn't be located elsewhere. If you look back, had stated that I couldn't imagine where at the helm stations it could be located. (This is merely because of space).

In another statement I did say I wasn't clear on why you'd need to send hydraulic line all the way to the helm. However, my lower helm line could be routing to the AP pump first and passing through the pump. I never traced the line from the helm to that space specifically.

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I hope I am not coming across as argumentative, that is not my intent and I do see you point.

I was trying to address why someone would run a steering line to the lower helm. Most AP controllers prescribe a maximum distance between the computer and the pump due to voltage drop through the reversing 12v wires. On my parents 390, the AP computer and the pump are in the compartment below the helm, the same compartment as the holding tank. You can hear the pump run in the cabin, which may bother some folks but I kind of like the reassuring sound of it working away. This minimizes the connections to the AP control heads, it does require a longer run for the rudder position sensor. It certainly isn't the only way to configure an AP but it seems well suited to me.

Edit: the model that the OP is installing ng uses the "smart pump" which has it's own power supply and only recieves low current input for m the computer, so it doesn't matter how far it is mounted. The power priced units must be within 19", I stand corrected.

So both Garmin and SeaStar both insist that a compensating hose needs to be run from the new autopilot pump to the helm, usually to the lower helm’s steering lower port since typically the lower helm’s steering’s upper port goes to the fly bridge’s steering lower port I didn’t ask why since both technical support sources said it was mandatory to have the compensating line installed. Both had no problem with having the new autopilot pump installed in the stern close to the steering ram. In fact they both advised that anywhere close to with helm could interfere with the shadow drive so installing in the stern is preferable.

Lshulan said:

So both Garmin and SeaStar both insist that a compensating hose needs to be run from the new autopilot pump to the helm, usually to the lower helm’s steering lower port since typically the lower helm’s steering’s upper port goes to the fly bridge’s steering lower port I didn’t ask why since both technical support sources said it was mandatory to have the compensating line installed. Both had no problem with having the new autopilot pump installed in the stern close to the steering ram. In fact they both advised that anywhere close to with helm could interfere with the shadow drive so installing in the stern is preferable.

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Lshulan, Any updates on your installation?
Would like to hear about your final install and any pics you have of component locations.

Lshulan said:

OK and thanks, will look again

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Lshulan any update and/or photos of your autopilot install?

No updates yet, work to start in early April.

My pump was in lazarette and the tech who installed my new Garmin system moved it under the lower helm. It works fine. Not sure about the shadow drive and how that would affect the location.
My only complaint is that I get a little wag when following a head. It's not bad but it is noticeable at times.

Hawkshaw1 said:

..... I get a little wag when following a head.

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I have no idea what this means.

Shrew said:

I have no idea what this means.

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Oh my, I apologize. I intended to write: My only complaint is that my boat wags back and forth a little when following a heading. It seems like it is oversteering.

Hawk