New purchase nightmare

Hello all, newby here, if I’m not doing something correct here, please advise.

Began the buying process from a manufacturer in Washington State, September 2021.

I am an out of state buyer that Spent a day on a similar vessel with Mfg, sale rep and general manager, negotiated purchase price, add on’s, options and delivery date, On or before 10/1/22, to date no boat. I was issued the Co order sheet signed by Mfg.

11/28/22 mfg says boat is done, I requested my surveyor look it over. Mfg reply, no, after you pay u may survey all you want. I had no choice. So, I send a person to factory to look it over on 12/1, you know, just to look it over, see if it was done and verify a few things, HIN….

Word from my viewer is, boat is not done, every hand in factory on it. Ok, it’s close, no worries, they demand closing on 12/2 or else! So, I send payment in full with tax doc’s signed.

Now, they want me to sign a purchase agreement, all news to us, that waives all my rights, including paying their atty fees in the event litigation ensues?

Has anyone here experienced this type of conduct before? To date I have not signed and WILL NOT sign. Any verbatim concerning a requirement for me to sign something should have been disclosed 14 months ago, not after they’ve been paid, no?

Can anyone refer me to an attorney in washington that has experience with this type of matter?

Thanks in advance! Rusty

Welcome aboard. Sorry to hear this. It must be extremely difficult to deal with this. Keep us informed.

Greetings,
Sad welcome aboard. Yep. Get an attorney involved ASAP.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Sad welcome aboard. Yep. Get an attorney involved ASAP.

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+1

I would have that conversation with my lawyer before signing anything too.

You definitely need an attorney as you need to discuss specifics that cannot be disclosed in a public forum.

I will add one avenue of possible compromise: hold final payment in escrow pending buyer verification of completion (e.g. a Survey). But frankly, your safest route may be to go quiet until you have legal representation. If your description is accurate, the builder has your cojones in a vice and wants to bully you. I doubt he will favorably respond to you unless you have artillery behind you.

An additional tip: you might want to reach out to Steve D'antonio, a noted buyers' inspector. My guess is he has some experience with this type of dispute and may know of an attorney who can assist.

I wish you the best of luck. My guess is we will never know the end of the story - builder will include a "No Disparagement" clause in whatever settlement you reach.

Peter

Try Fred Robinson. If he can't help, he should be able to refer you to someone. He's in Seattle or nearby.

Ranger?

Thanks!

It sounds to me like they are not very proud of their product.

At the very least you need to escrow a pretty large part of the payment.

pete

I used Terry McGee to settle a lawsuit I had against Northern Marine. He did a great job and I highly recommend him.

Thank you all for your input on this situation I am in. I am seeking advice from a PNW local attorney today to see what my options are and will report back when I learn more about my options.

The only thing we want is our boat and the ownership documents.....

(Great site full of information and nice folk)

Greetings,
Mr. RR. I would strongly advise you report ONLY when ALL is signed, sealed and delivered. Never mind about options. IF this goes to litigation, anything might be used as evidence...even seemingly innocent comments on a forum like this.

Edit: Personally, I would ask the mods to delete this thread entirely. don't give the "enemy" any ammunition.

FULL report afterwards, of course.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. RR. I would strongly advise you report ONLY when ALL is signed, sealed and delivered. Never mind about options. IF this goes to litigation, anything might be used as evidence...even seemingly innocent comments on a forum like this.

Edit: Personally, I would ask the mods to delete this thread entirely. don't give the "enemy" any ammunition.

FULL report afterwards, of course.

Click to expand...

What are the terms of your original P&S? That is all that really matters. They can have you sign to extend, but you're not compelled to sign a new P&S signing away additional rights at the 11th hour.

FWIW

I know little about marine purchases and the contracts that go with that transaction.

I know a lot about Real Estate purchases and the different contracts.
Typically a used home (resale) purchase uses a universal contract that is created by the Realtor Association of the given state. The contract becomes standard for all purchases of previously owned homes.

For a new home, generally that contract is generated by the new home builder. And nearly every contract is different for every different home builder. In addition, they are typically longer contracts to address additional items that are requested by the design center (options) for the home to be built. Almost every contract that I have ever seen (executed before the home is built) limits the liability of the builder/seller. Generally as a buyer you are signing a document that states you can not sue.

In practice, if the builder/seller does or does not do something specified in the contract they get sued and the court system disregards the waiver of liability because the the builder did not build what was agreed to in the contract.

My recommendation (which is too late at this point) is to always have a purchase contract before any money is transfered. And before any work is done. The dates and time frames of when the work or transaction will be completed may be inaccurate. (Supply chains issues and ???) However the general idea on a complex arrangement is the thing will be built to specifications. Which also includes how it is assembled, meaning some level of quality.

Good luck.

Action

Hopefully by now, the OP is getting appropriate advice.

Barring US law that prevents it, there is already an agreement between the OP and the Seller.

The purpose of seeking/requiring an Agreement at this late stage, when the Agreement spelt out by conduct and Order forms etc has been performed except for delivery,is likely to protect the Seller from liability. As one of the terms suggests.Maybe there is a third party involved on the Seller`s side in the seeking this "Agreement" at such a late stage.

It sounds like the ultimate "cart before horse" situation, a retrospective "Agreement".

Shrew said:

What are the terms of your original P&S? That is all that really matters. They can have you sign to extend, but you're not compelled to sign a new P&S signing away additional rights at the 11th hour.

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Indeed, I consulted with an experienced litigator near Seattle. He explained what you have said similarly. The purchase contract signed by the manufacturer was nearly an order form and contract establishing price, amenities and contracted delivery date, signed by the general manager and sales person. To wait 15 months and attempt to force someone to sign something that is not true (boat is everything buyer dreamed by of by personal inspection while the buyer has not seen the build), delivery 3 mo late or that the buyer will fund the attorney representing the builder is nonsense, according to this attorney. We were advised to sign stating “duress” was the only reason any signatures were provided. Apparently in that state when you indicate the other party pays atty’s fees is a scare tactic that sails both directions. They too are responsible for mine AND that clause is looked down upon by those in the legal field for all the obvious reasons. The bottom line is, all we want is our paid for boat without all the BS, mis leading information, deceptive practices and accurate delivery date and product quality paid for…. Most of which has been a struggle at best. We now seek a surveyor from the area that is top notch and reputable for doing a thorough job. I’m going to search this site and attempt to find someone as its probably been discussed. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT ON THIS UN PLEASANT EXPERIENCE! Typing from a phone, responses are challenging!

Rusty Rudder said:

Apparently in that state when you indicate the other party pays atty’s fees is a scare tactic that sails both directions. They too are responsible for mine AND that clause is looked down upon by those in the legal field for all the obvious reasons.

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I can from personal experience say that is true. You cannot be compelled to pay the other's legal costs.

Rusty Rudder said:

We now seek a surveyor from the area that is top notch and reputable for doing a thorough job.

Click to expand...

Long ago I had a disagreement over maritime matters that ended up in court. My advice is to search out a surveyor with court experience. Unfortunately I don't know how to do that these days other than hours on the phone and email.

Glad you got advice and came to terms over the last minute imposition. But,what a way to end a transaction? Lawyers retained, bizarre "agreement" provisions, loss of faith and confidence, and a sour aftertaste.

What will warranty work dealings be like? Or is there now no warranty?
Another member had an awful experience with the mfrs of a new boat. Is this the norm now? I guess someone has to, but good reasons not to buy new.

I am not a US citizen, you all may have different laws, but when I buy something new I definitely want to inspect it before I make the final payment. My back ground is in aviation and also there it is normal that final payment is only made after the buyer is fully satisfied with the product, in other words that it is according to what the contract stipulates.
It sounds very strange to me that you are not allowed to have a survey done prior to making a final payment. In my opinion that sounds a lot like: 'we know we made mistakes, but we don't want to admit them and we definitely don't want to pay for them'.

In any case it was good of you not to mention their name here. There is more than 1 boat builder in Washington State, so they can never make a claim for defamation. Your name is also not here, so nobody can make a link between you and that company. Just make sure you keep it that way.

And indeed, get a good lawyer and demand that survey or inspection. In many countries the builder has the obligation to deliver a good product, I cannot imagine that obligation does not exist in the US.

BruceK said:

Glad you got advice and came to terms over the last minute imposition. But,what a way to end a transaction? Lawyers retained, bizarre "agreement" provisions, loss of faith and confidence, and a sour aftertaste.

What will warranty work dealings be like? Or is there now no warranty?
Another member had an awful experience with the mfrs of a new boat. Is this the norm now? I guess someone has to, but good reasons not to buy new.

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Exactly, survey before the boat leaves Washington for sure…. Warranty? “Sir, please go to the end of the longest line! Ha!

The tactics used, half truths and deception they have used is disturbing at best!

Thanks for your condolences!

It aint over till it’s over!

Mambo42 said:

I am not a US citizen, you all may have different laws, but when I buy something new I definitely want to inspect it before I make the final payment. My back ground is in aviation and also there it is normal that final payment is only made after the buyer is fully satisfied with the product, in other words that it is according to what the contract stipulates.
It sounds very strange to me that you are not allowed to have a survey done prior to making a final payment. In my opinion that sounds a lot like: 'we know we made mistakes, but we don't want to admit them and we definitely don't want to pay for them'.

In any case it was good of you not to mention their name here. There is more than 1 boat builder in Washington State, so they can never make a claim for defamation. Your name is also not here, so nobody can make a link between you and that company. Just make sure you keep it that way.

And indeed, get a good lawyer and demand that survey or inspection. In many countries the builder has the obligation to deliver a good product, I cannot imagine that obligation does not exist in the US.

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Agreed! Aviator myself and it sounds like your laws and protocol are spot on with ours!

Survey before she leaves Washington… Repair of discrepancies? Warranty? Who knows! Sir, sir, please go to the end of the longest line! Ha

Very disappointing when half truths, deception and scare tactics are used to force your buyer to sign or do something he/she has not signed up to do….

Anywho, it aint over till its over, I’ll keep ya posted as some closure is near!

Thanks for your condolences!

I agree with the suspicion that there is something wrong that they know about, and that's why all this BS at the end. Otherwise, why? People do things for a reason. What's their reason?


Re surveyor, in this case I would hire Steve D'Antonio. PM me if you need contact info.

twistedtree said:

I agree with the suspicion that there is something wrong that they know about, and that's why all this BS at the end. Otherwise, why? People do things for a reason. What's their reason?


Re surveyor, in this case I would hire Steve D'Antonio. PM me if you need contact info.

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From what others have said, production output, employee workforce and quality control due to all the above seem to be the problem, not to mention the covid card that is regularly played by them….

Twisted suggests Steve D'Antonio. I doubt you could do any better than to hire him. You will pay travel expenses but given the problems you are having and likely to have his travel expenses will pale in comparison to the costs of sorting out the problems another may not find.

It is easy to forget that a boat, even a modern boat coming out of a modern factory, is a hand built item. Unlike a new car that we can expect to simply turn the key and drive off problem free a new boat will have issues. There will be problems to solve. Adjustments to make. It doesn't matter whether the boat came from a quality builder or not. That only determines the scale of the issues to solve. You need the services of someone like D'Antonio.

Have you paid in full? It seems from your OP that you have not. So you do have some leverage in this situation.

New Purchase Nightmare

Maritime law is a totally different world. Follow the good advice here. Get a maritime lawyer and delete everything on this forum. The builder has your money so you can't afford a single mistake.

https://jhcooper.com/info/buyer-beware-tips-for-boat-purchasers/

“ Although, technically speaking, contracts for the sale and purchase of vessels are not maritime contracts…”

So, an admiralty lawyer says the purchase is not an admiralty law issue. An admiralty lawyer might not hurt but not necessary. It’s plain old nightmarish contract law.

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