Teak Cap Rail Maintenance - Awlgrip Awlwood

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jimL

jimL

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
358
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Lemon Drops
Vessel Make
2001 Grand Banks Europa 52
Hi all,

We have a 2001 GB Europa 52 with teak cap rails. The previous owner took exceptional care of them. He mentioned that I should apply a few coats of Awlwood every year. They look to be in great shape, but I don't know where to start. It appears in some areas the teak has developed a darkened tone to it which I don't remember from last season. We have had this boat for less than 2 years. I was going to take a video of the track rail caps last season, but it got away from me.

We would appreciate any advice anyone has on maintaining nicely Awlwooded teak rail caps.

Thanks - JimL
 
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Lightly sand with 400, wipe clean, then recoat.

There is a new product J4000, I think. It is considered all weather. It flows out more and doesn't require thinning. Somewhat easier to use, but harder to find.

Also takes longer to dry. Maybe two coats in a day versus 6.

Good luck!
 
I use Awlwood. For maintenance, if done before things get bad, you light sand with 220 grit to degloss and remove any UV damaged surface, repair any defects by priming and building up with the gloss to the same thickness as needed (finishing the repair areas with the same 220 grit deglossing), and built up multiple coats in the same day, usually every 2-4 hours. Additional coats can be applied within 24 hours without sanding, depending on the weather. Adding layers after 24 hours requires 220 grit deglossing and at least 2 more coats.

The prmer comes in clear, red brown, and yellow brown tints. Whatever was originally used should be used to reprime any repair areas that go down to the wood. It needs to dry and be /very/ lightly sanded with 300 grit before applying top coat, also within 24 hours (unless more time is needed to be sandabke due to cold weather).

If applying top coat over wood primed with either colored primer, it looks a lot better if you mix some primer into the clear coat as close to 10% as you can get, but not more, at least for the first few coats and until you think any more is hiding the grain more than you like. Doing this goes along way to restoring the rich color.

I like to do the final coat or two after a full day of drying and a light 220 grit sand to clean up any imperfections, without any primer added, and thinned for a really nice self-smoothing flow vs build-up. Hiw much I thin seems to depend upon weather.

If you want a non-glass finish, that top coat should be the last coat and last coat only. I've never done this.

If I leave a bottle of awlwood open too long, the while bottle seems to somewhat auddenly kick, especially on hot humid days.

Instructions available below, as well as at maknnretailer web sites and the manufacturer's site:

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/97753
 
STB

I'm thinking of changing from Deks Olje to Awlwood. A couple of questions. First how durable is Awlwood in term of years? Second, a friends Awlwood looked very red-coloured to me so I assume he used the red primer. Does the yellow primer result in a 'honey teak' colour finish? And the clear primer I am guessing will not prevent UV bleaching of the teak over time.

STB, can you or someone else elaborate on these assumptions & questions?
 
Describing colors is sooooo subjective. To my eye, they are all medium-dark browns. Indeed, I think I'd describe one as more honey brown and one as more red brown. Just expect brown, not yellow. You can mix them to get a shade in between. And, you can mix them with clear primer to lighten them. The three primers can be mixed in any proportion.

The primary purposes of the primer are to add adhesion to help the top coat stick and to help create a more even color on bleached or unevenly bleached wood. The UV resistance is advertised as being on the top coat, not the primer.

Having said that, I have observed that the primer does lighten and become more transparent with age, so the top coat may be, itself, UV resistant, but it doesn't seem to be a perfect sun screen. To the extent that the primers pigment is being degraded over time, I imagine it is at least somewhat sacrificial, protecting the teak underneath.

The slow bleaching of the underlying primer's color is why I add the colored primer to at least some of the maintainance coats. It really does make it look nice again after a couple of coats. When I'm happy, I stop and go just clear from there because I figure there will be too much and the wood will look cloudy sooner than later. But I've never gone that far, so it is hyothetical. I can also imagine that eventually I'll need to take it down....but I don't know if the underlying primer, primer tinted clear top, or untinted clear top will hard fail 1st.

The top coat seems to lose some shine over time, but otherwise be really, really durable in all respects. It has gone 3.5 years in some places on my boat (without mechanical wear) without failing in any way other than less shine. Even in the Florida sun. Where it gets wear from boarding, ropes, etc, it flakes off at the points of wear, but doesn't peel back from damage and at joints like Captains and Flagship did. I've been really happy about that.

The pigment in the primer, as primer or mixed into the top coat as a tint, seems to fade noticeably in a year or two.

I usually find myself doing maintenance coats because the color looks less good rather than because it is peeling, flaking, or too dull (for my taste).
 
STB said:
Describing colors is sooooo subjective. To my eye, they are all medium-dark browns. Indeed, I think I'd describe one as more honey brown and one as more red brown. Just expect brown, not yellow. You can mix them to get a shade in between. And, you can mix them with clear primer to lighten them. The three primers can be mixed in any proportion.

The primary purposes of the primer are to add adhesion to help the top coat stick and to help create a more even color on bleached or unevenly bleached wood. The UV resistance is advertised as being on the top coat, not the primer.

Having said that, I have observed that the primer does lighten and become more transparent with age, so the top coat may be, itself, UV resistant, but it doesn't seem to be a perfect sun screen. To the extent that the primers pigment is being degraded over time, I imagine it is at least somewhat sacrificial, protecting the teak underneath.



The slow bleaching of the underlying primer's color is why I add the colored primer to at least some of the maintainance coats. It really does make it look nice again after a couple of coats. When I'm happy, I stop and go just clear from there because I figure there will be too much and the wood will look cloudy sooner than later. But I've never gone that far, so it is hyothetical. I can also imagine that eventually I'll need to take it down....but I don't know if the underlying primer, primer tinted clear top, or untinted clear top will hard fail 1st.

The top coat seems to lose some shine over time, but otherwise be really, really durable in all respects. It has gone 3.5 years in some places on my boat (without mechanical wear) without failing in any way other than less shine. Even in the Florida sun. Where it gets wear from boarding, ropes, etc, it flakes off at the points of wear, but doesn't peel back from damage and at joints like Captains and Flagship did. I've been really happy about that.

The pigment in the primer, as primer or mixed into the top coat as a tint, seems to fade noticeably in a year or two.

I usually find myself doing maintenance coats because the color looks less good rather than because it is peeling, flaking, or too dull (for my taste).
Click to expand...


Yes, I used the clear primer which initially made my teak appear very "red", I liked it a lot. Now after 3 1/2 years, with yearly maintenance coats, the wood itself is graying badly while the clear finish remains in good condition.
If I used your trick of mixing primer with maintenance coats do you think I should used red ? Not sure my original clear would do anything.
 
The dark brown spots seem to indicate moisture intrusion. If I were a betting man I would bet the dark spots are near stanchions, cleats or other intrusions into the wood.

pete
 
The yellow primer will turn teak a golden color.
Red primer is for Mahogany, and gives it a dark red tint.
The clear turns teak brown. Wipe with mineral spirits to get an idea.
If you brush the primer the tint is way more pronounced versus wiping it on, a thinner coat.

I use one part yellow to two parts clear for the interior and it is almost a dead match to original color.

Awlwood encapsulates the wood, and is very hard but flexible. I have had very little fading. I use the primers to hide staining. A little red to blend areas. I have tried tinting clear coats but not much success, easier to just selectively prime.

We walk on it with shoes, and it can be buffed out if high gloss. The matte is actually more of a satin, very nice finish.

I am on year five in the Florida sun.

If you really want to see how good it is spray it. It is water clear and makes wood grain go insane.
 
On my blog you can see it sprayed on sign boards. I also sprayed my steering wheels. They look encased in glass. Go to my blog, grandbankschoices and dig around and find it.

Awlwood takes skill. It is so reflective it shows every flaw and depression. Can be quite humbling.
 
In June 2021 here in SW BC, we had a "heat dome". My rails suffered, as if someone had gone around with a heat gun, enough to bubble the varnish, not enough to break open any of the bubbles. I am not finished taking the bubbled sections back to bare wood and starting again. I am watching this thread, but so far haven't seen anything that would suggest moving from Epifanes varnish to Awlwood. The heat tolerance has not been mentioned. Anyoe have experience with Awlwood in high temps? The darkening happens with varnish too. Mine has not been taken down to wood since the second owner did so in 1988 (+-1yr). Bubble repairs have forced taking long sections down and the colour is much lighter.
 
"The heat tolerance has not been mentioned. Anyoe have experience with Awlwood in high temps?"

Choices is on year 5 in Florida Sun. That's pretty darn good. I have to recoat Captains every year in New England. 2 coats.
 
My own take is that things like touching up with primer and blending primers and clear to blend in light or dark spots are artwork. The colored primer doesn't match itself out of the can after a couple of years, never mind whatever color of wood one has.

I'd call their tech line and ask if you can prime the whole thing over the existing finish. If you can do that, while not ideal, it'll make it darker and even.

If not, I think the best one can do is a few coats with color at 10%. I've been happy that it makes the wood lool alive again.

I've also primed over the finish with the colored primer and then cleared over it over and around some high wear areas. It seemed to work for me. But it is off label. Before I'd do it as anything other than the type of touch up I did, I'd call and ask what could go wrong.

I've found Awlwood takes less skill than Captains or Flagship. It flows better. Especially when I thin that top coat a hair. It takes a lot less thinner than they did to matter, it seems to me. I've used Epiphanes, but not for a while boat, so I can't compare. I just don't remember it well enough.

I'm not sure what temperatures come with a heat dome, but I haven't had a bubbling problem in FL. It may have had as much to do with moisture levels when it heated up as the heat itself. Temp alone may not be a fair test. But, the fact that I've never had a problem at a joint or around a ding leads mentocbelieve itnis more resistant than some finishes, like the Captains and Flagship used to use, thst seem to love to peel when given Amy reason.

Clear turns teak brown in the same way that wetting it down or using most clear products do.
 
Cigatoo said:
"The heat tolerance has not been mentioned. Anyoe have experience with Awlwood in high temps?"

Choices is on year 5 in Florida Sun. That's pretty darn good. I have to recoat Captains every year in New England. 2 coats.
Click to expand...

Note that I am in Florida and maintainance coat many parts every year or two do to primer color fading. Depends upon one's expectations and colored primer use or not, think.
 
koliver said:
In June 2021 here in SW BC, we had a "heat dome". My rails suffered, as if someone had gone around with a heat gun, enough to bubble the varnish, not enough to break open any of the bubbles. I am not finished taking the bubbled sections back to bare wood and starting again. I am watching this thread, but so far haven't seen anything that would suggest moving from Epifanes varnish to Awlwood. The heat tolerance has not been mentioned. Anyoe have experience with Awlwood in high temps? The darkening happens with varnish too. Mine has not been taken down to wood since the second owner did so in 1988 (+-1yr). Bubble repairs have forced taking long sections down and the colour is much lighter.
Click to expand...



I see I am not alone with bubbles. I must have scraped and built up more than 40 of them. As I was putting the boat to bed a realized there are more.
Oh well, I needed something more to do. I mark them as I see them with blue tape so they can be found as often I cannot scrape them immediately.
I also then use a safety pin to pierce the bubble so it stops growing which is another reason for the blue tape. Always pierce on the down side i on the vertical surfaces. They can be quite hard to spot again once pierced.
THe blue tape I mark the date on and change it if the bubble has not been dealt with in the tapes life of abut 5 - 10 days. I also X as I apply each coat so I know how many buildups there are.

I no longer really worry about trying to match the surrounding areas for level. That will come over a couple more years. Otherwise I would never finish. Never really do anyways.


Good luck with yours Koliver
 
Cigatoo said:
"The heat tolerance has not been mentioned. Anyoe have experience with Awlwood in high temps?"

Choices is on year 5 in Florida Sun. That's pretty darn good. I have to recoat Captains every year in New England. 2 coats.
Click to expand...

OK, but having only rumors of heat in Florida I have no idea whether 5 yrs in Florida sun has the temps that damaged my varnish.
The damage on my boat was on the side facing the sun, so there was reflected glare from my newly painted house and direct sunshine (at a lower angle than in Fl, relating to our 49° Latitude). The daily high temp lasted 7 to 10 days, with record high temperatures, rising to as much as 49° C away from the water. What the temperature was at my boat over that week is not recorded, so may or may not have been typical Florida temperatures.

As for Captain v Epifanes, again there is really no data other than anecdotes, so I can't say your New England experience would be helpful.
My own experience with Epifanes is that on horizontal surfaces, one coat every year is best. On vertical or sloped surfaces, or in protected areas, one coat every few years keeps it fresh.
 
I am not saying Awlwood is the end all.

But, when I got my boat it had terrible teak. I heat stripped the whole boat in a weekend, and suffered hundreds of second degree burns.

A friend told me to buy these Red Devil peanut scrapers, and I had six cause they got so hot they melted. I would go through six, then stop and sharpen them. I did the boat in winter.

I did not bleach the bare teak, should have. Then it would have been perfect.

Do a simple strip to get a feel for it.

As far as heat, the boat gets hot enough you can't walk on teak barefoot. And regular 100 degree days. Not really an issue, it does not soften.

It is more work initially, but my time is worth it.
 
Can Awlwood be applied directly over Signature Finish Honey Teak? It was my favorite when it was still made.
Sorry if this counts as a highjack.
 
koliver said:
As for Captain v Epifanes, again there is really no data other than anecdotes, so I can't say your New England experience would be helpful.
My own experience with Epifanes is that on horizontal surfaces, one coat every year is best. On vertical or sloped surfaces, or in protected areas, one coat every few years keeps it fresh.
Click to expand...

I fortunately have no exterior wood on the trawler, but teak caprails and eyebrows on the sailboat. These have always been done with Epifanes, but I am stripping them (13 years old) and converting to Awlspar (not Awlwood). You may want to experiment with it. It is a traditional tung oil/phenolic resin varnish, thinner from the can than Epifanes. The advantage that has won me over is the recoat interval is 3 hours, less if a bit warmer. That makes 3 coats a day possible vs. one for Epifanes. Also, no sanding necessary if recoated in <36 hours. I've tested some pieces, done 3 coats first day, 3 coats second day, wait 24 hours and sand to level any dust or problems, then 3 coats to finish. All done with a fine grained foam trim roller, no tipping, without thinning.

I've seen a couple of abject failures in my marina with Awlwood, suggesting that there may be tricks and/or it is unforgiving of mistakes in application. I've also seen some successes so it can work well.
 
DDW said:
I've seen a couple of abject failures in my marina with Awlwood, suggesting that there may be tricks and/or it is unforgiving of mistakes in application. I've also seen some successes so it can work well.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, can you describe the failures, including time-to-fail?
 
Putting a product that can perform like Awlwood on old product makes no sense. You are defeating the reason to use the product, putting great product on a failing product.

Awlwood can lift existing finishes. I have had it do this in the interior, and I had to sand it off and start over. My thoughts are there could be a gassing issue, but probably the Awlwood shrinks as it dries causing the old product to fail, causing gassing from the wood.

It is hard to touch up, but once done almost invisible.

The primer is for adhesion. It coats the wood and adds tint. The clear fills the grain till you have that glass plate finish. They recommend six coats to twelve. I leave a 1/8" lip onto fiberglass to seal the wood.

After three coats you have to retake or use a razor blade and just cut the tape line. Otherwise you will tear the finish to bare wood.

The new clear J4000? needs no thinner. The old product 3890? can need thinner. You can get four plus coats on of 3890, with 4000 maybe three, in a day. Awlwood 3890 dries with high humidity and heat. I have had the old product jell in twenty minutes. Great for building depth. The 4000 is great for finish coats, it flows out better, not so touchy.

Holidays, or missed spots are a major problem. You are painting water with water. A real bitch. So I use a scotch Brite pad on the last coats to help confirm coverage.

I use foam brushes and when they start dragging I toss and get a new one. I use small baby food type containers and just toss them.

You get micro scratches from normal wear. It is as hard as gelcoat. A yearly coat covers that. I went four years before retouching.

Expansion joints will fail. Cover those with a black urethane strip like teak flooring.

I work in sections, stern, rear qtrs, then 10' sections stopping at railings.
 
DDW said:
I fortunately have no exterior wood on the trawler, but teak caprails and eyebrows on the sailboat. These have always been done with Epifanes, but I am stripping them (13 years old) and converting to Awlspar (not Awlwood). You may want to experiment with it. It is a traditional tung oil/phenolic resin varnish, thinner from the can than Epifanes. The advantage that has won me over is the recoat interval is 3 hours, less if a bit warmer. That makes 3 coats a day possible vs. one for Epifanes. Also, no sanding necessary if recoated in <36 hours. I've tested some pieces, done 3 coats first day, 3 coats second day, wait 24 hours and sand to level any dust or problems, then 3 coats to finish. All done with a fine grained foam trim roller, no tipping, without thinning.

I've seen a couple of abject failures in my marina with Awlwood, suggesting that there may be tricks and/or it is unforgiving of mistakes in application. I've also seen some successes so it can work well.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the tip, but that wouldn't change my protocol, as I usually get 3 coats of Epifanes in a day if I am doing a board that needs 3 new coats. A few times my third coat has been too late in the day and dew has dulled the finish, but as long as the last is allowed to dry before it gets too late in the day for adequate drying, Epifanes will be perfect in the morning.
In that analysis, Epifanes has a product they call "wood finish" that they say is designed to have the second coat applied when the first isn't really dry. I have tried that alongside their "varnish" and can't find any difference when both are applied on a tacky previous coat.
The same may be true for other good quality varnishes.
 
STB said:
Out of curiosity, can you describe the failures, including time-to-fail?
Click to expand...

Guy across the pier from me had his teak professionally done two years ago with Awlwood. It looked pretty good to start with. After one year it was starting to lift and cloud, mainly at the edges and wood joints. This is about the end of year two and there are large areas lifted and clouded, it looks horrible.

I didn't see them do the application and perhaps mistakes or shortcuts were made. They did take it back to bare teak, and they did use the primer. I do not know what their experience with the product is. I do know that even a slap dash varnish job would look better than that and last longer. That's why I say there may be tricks with Awlwood, or perhaps it is finicky.

There are a couple of other boats on the dock with lifting and clouding Awlwood, I don't know as much about the particulars, but the owners confirmed that it was Awlwood. As I said, I've seen some other boats that look really good with Awlwood, and there are people that swear by it.
 
Pete Meisinger said:
The dark brown spots seem to indicate moisture intrusion. If I were a betting man I would bet the dark spots are near stanchions, cleats or other intrusions into the wood.

pete
Click to expand...

Indeed,
I used oil (mostly, and oil and varnish) on our Willard.
The best quality I know of for cap rails is flexibility. Re what Pete says water leaks through cracks and fastener protrusions let water in under the finish film. Then it turns black. It not only looks bad … it is bad. And it gets worse.

I use McCloskie’s Spar varnish. It’s a high oil product that flex’s enough (most of the time) so there’s few black spots.

I evolved into using the Spar Varnish when we moved south to NW Washington State. In covered moorage the varnish can last 10 years even more. The couple I sold the boat to has her in open moorage now. Don’t know how she’s doing because she’s out under the PNW weather.

I usually use the many coats of oil as a primer. Dry out the last coat of thin oil, sand a bit and start w a light coat (mostly turpentine and thinner) then lay on the varnish.
 
jimL said:
Hi all,

We have a 2001 GB Europa 52 with teak cap rails. The previous owner took exceptional care of them. He mentioned that I should apply a few coats of Awlwood every year. They look to be in great shape, but I don't know where to start. It appears in some areas the teak has developed a darkened tone to it which I don't remember from last season. We have had this boat for less than 2 years. I was going to take a video of the track rail caps last season, but it got away from me.

We would appreciate any advice anyone has on maintaining nicely Awlwooded teak rail caps.

Thanks - JimL
Click to expand...

Lightly sand with 400 + 3 coats International brand Woodskin varnish 3 coats twice a year spring and fall. Blackened spots are under varnish moisture, strip down to bare wood and apply 6 coats over one week time sanding very lightly with 400 after each coat. Do not use any paint thinner at all.
 
Teak varnish requires 2x coats per year. Better to remove damaged areas with heat gun, lighten with wood bleach / oxalic acid. Avoid sanding.
 
MVDarlin said:
Teak varnish requires 2x coats per year. Better to remove damaged areas with heat gun, lighten with wood bleach / oxalic acid. Avoid sanding.
Click to expand...

There may be different opinions on that one. Often times a single gentleness of brightener removes essbthan sanding. But, if left longernirnused repeatedly it eats away softer material disproportionately, leaving a deep, coarse grain.

I hate removing wood, chemicallynor mechanically. But, whennI have to, unless thebwood is in really good shape and needs only a quick brightening, Inprefer sanding. I feel like I have more control over it. Thebwood stops disappearing the exact moment I stop sanding.
 
I had Allwood on the cap rails when I had a GB. It was prepped and applied at the GB yard in Stuart, FL. I was told to wax the cap rails every 6 months with a good quality carnauba wax that did not contain any cleaners. I sold the boat 3 years later and the rails still looked great. I guess the wax keeps the moisture out.
 
koliver said:
In June 2021 here in SW BC, we had a "heat dome". My rails suffered, as if someone had gone around with a heat gun, enough to bubble the varnish, not enough to break open any of the bubbles. I am not finished taking the bubbled sections back to bare wood and starting again. I am watching this thread, but so far haven't seen anything that would suggest moving from Epifanes varnish to Awlwood. The heat tolerance has not been mentioned. Anyoe have experience with Awlwood in high temps? The darkening happens with varnish too. Mine has not been taken down to wood since the second owner did so in 1988 (+-1yr). Bubble repairs have forced taking long sections down and the colour is much lighter.
Click to expand...

Wow! That must have been some heat dome! Here in SE US, afternoon
temps in the sun can easily reach 125 deg F but I've never seen my Epiphanes bubble as you describe. It gradually loses its shine over the summer cruising season due to the sun. The base varnish remains stable, though gradually lightens in color over the first 2-3 yrs due to sun bleaching. 2-3 coats after a light sanding annually brings it back to like new. Perhaps something in the initial prep caused the bubbling later?
 
The product mentioned is like most other polyurethanes- deficient in UV protection. I refinished boats professionally in Florida for 20 years and I've seen several instances where this finish had been applied as per the Manu instructions and failed. The finish doesn't fail necessarily, the sun bores through the finish and lightens the wood.
If you want a long lasting finish, build up coats of a regular varnish such as Epifanes and then apply one topcoat of Awlbrite 3 part polyurethane. Varnish has superior UV protection, but as a natural product it breaks down readily in sunlight. The one poly topcoat protects the underlying varnish layer.
 
mickand,
How flexible is the top coat .. Awlbrite?
 
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