British Columbia fish farms must go.

Any Canadian who is in agreement with the following letter please go here
and add your name before October 27th, 2022

British Columbia’s wild salmon drive recreational fishing industries and wilderness tourism. They’re integral to aboriginal culture. Ocean-based factory fish farms threaten wild salmon and everyone that depends on them. Open-net salmon farms amplify parasites, viruses and bacteria and spread them to wild salmon, according to numerous peer-reviewed scientific studies published in independent journals. I want all salmon farms removed from B.C. coastal waters as soon as possible and no later than 2025.

The current federal government committed to transitioning open-net salmon farms by 2025. I expect them to do so without delay or half-measures. In recent DFO communications, semi-closed containment salmon farms have been mentioned as a possible solution or avenue for the transition despite any publicly available evidence that shows this technology is viable. Progressively minimizing or eliminating interactions between farm and wild salmon has also been touted by the federal government as a solution. We don’t have time for a protracted transition period. The open-net salmon farming industry had decades to clean-up their act. It’s time for them to transition completely out of coastal B.C. waters.

Another half-measure being touted by DFO as a solution is known as area based aquaculture management. This vague term suggests some unknown level of communication or coordination among open net salmon farms in a region will protect wild salmon. The time for stalling is over. All open net salmon farms must be removed by no later than 2025.

In addition, the open-net salmon farm transition should not just focus on shifting fish farm workers to another form of aquaculture. The transition should include shifting workers to other fields of employment that are currently in great need in British Columbia.

Wild salmon do not have time to spare. I call on you to do everything you can to remove factory fish farms from B.C. coastal waters by 2025 and keep your government’s promise to Canadians.

Thank you.

"The transition should include shifting workers to other fields of employment that are currently in great need in British Columbia."

Uh-huh. I always laugh when petitions have this line in it. Could only be written by an inner city cubicle dwelling activist, who has no clue why people choose their occupation and where they work where they do.

I don't have strong feelings for or against the fish farms. If anything, it is the inconvenience of the nice anchorages they occupy.

Don't really think it belongs in the forum though.

Greetings,
Mr. NS. "Don't really think it belongs in the forum though." It is as relevant as speed zones to minimize whale strikes. Stewardship of OUR waters AND the creatures therein is everyone's responsibility...IMO.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. NS. "Don't really think it belongs in the forum though." It is as relevant as speed zones to minimize whale strikes. Stewardship of OUR waters AND the creatures therein is everyone's responsibility...IMO.

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I agree with RT. This thread doesn't belong on this forum.

Northern Spy said:

"The transition should include shifting workers to other fields of employment that are currently in great need in British Columbia."

Uh-huh. I always laugh when petitions have this line in it. Could only be written by an inner city cubicle dwelling activist, who has no clue why people choose their occupation and where they work where they do.

I don't have strong feelings for or against the fish farms. If anything, it is the inconvenience of the nice anchorages they occupy.

Don't really think it belongs in the forum though.

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Cherry-picking out just one point so you can advance your specious argument doesn't invalidate the concerns being raised.

Harbor Chat (16 Viewing)
Friendly, professional, informal exchange of "NON-boating" topics. Political comments, government policy, weaponry, religious and social issue discussions are off-limits in this forum.

I suppose the thread can be deleted as it does involve government policy. Ok on the 27th it can be deleted.

I almost always think debates like this are "can't win." We either vacuum out all the natural fish stocks on the high seas (or it crashes like the snow crab off Alaska apparently, or the by-catch is absolutely appalling to any reasonable human), or aquaculture is evil and will ruin natural stocks and populations. Can't win. Meanwhile humans will continue to demand and consume mass quantities of cedar-grilled salmon with dill and lemon. If this thread is allowed to continue, I'll bet at some point we'll circle around to the well-trod argument about whether humans are damaging to the planet and global populations ought to shrink because we're all parasitic planet-wreckers.

Fish farms are good for the human food needs as long as they do not deplete an existing food chain. Wait, that is exactly what they have done, too late. So now instead of commercially caught wild salmon it is replaced with farmed. No net gain. Plus a loss of the sport fishing industry. Relocation of existing farms is the end game to where they do not interfere with natural stock.

In an effort to preserve the remaining stocks of wild salmon, I almost always buy (when I know the source) farm raised salmon. Now I'm confused. Sometimes doing the right thing can be hard to figure out. Not eating salmon is unfortunately not an option.

Ted

wkearney99 said:

Cherry-picking out just one point so you can advance your specious argument doesn't invalidate the concerns being raised.

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Meh. I live here. You don't.

BC (and Canada) loves to offer retrain all of their workers that activists don't like.

I've had my livelihood threatened by many NGOs, as both a forestry worker and as an oil worker. The reality is, they don't retrain anyone. Too bad, because I have a background in training, and could potentially benefit. It is just a specious (proper use of the word, this time) promise to advance their agenda.

I don't believe the false dichotomy that is argued; that fish farms and recreational fishing cannot co-exist.

I see positives and negatives associated with fish farms. I think the answer is in applied science and enforced regulation, not in the application of the 'precautionary principle" about everything we don't fully understand.

That said, I trust the Canadian federal government to do "the right thing" just as much as I trust an NGO to do "the right thing"; that is, I don't.

Caveat: Watershedwatch (who penned this letter) is one of the few NGOs that actually is science heavy and doesn't use the appeal to emotion like most NGOs and activists to get their point across. That said, they are hard-line environmentalists who would like to stop most human interaction with salmon bearing waters. Not very big on compromise.

There's a reason Alaska has banned fish farms. Nuff said.

Washington has allowed fish farms so long as the farmed fish are only Pacific salmon species. More scientific research needed.

Greetings,
Mr. ASD. Sorry for the confusion. This thread DOES belong on the forum! As I mentioned, we are ALL responsible for the well being of our waters. Regardless of the "politics" there is very strong scientific evidence that the current system of penned fish farming IS damaging to the natural stocks in a number of ways not the least of which is the introduction of disease into the environment.

An article I read the other day said 1/3 of marine life harvested goes to feeding farm raised marine life with "fish pellets".

I can't say much about the topic but it sure got me to thinking about mankind's impact
on the big picture.

kthoennes said:

I'll bet at some point we'll circle around to the well-trod argument about whether humans are damaging to the planet and global populations ought to shrink because we're all parasitic planet-wreckers.

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There is a reason for that. I blame logic.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. ASD. Sorry for the confusion. This thread DOES belong on the forum! As I mentioned, we are ALL responsible for the well being of our waters. Regardless of the "politics" there is very strong scientific evidence that the current system of penned fish farming IS damaging to the natural stocks in a number of ways not the least of which is the introduction of disease into the environment.

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Thank you for the clarification. I too am against fish farms with non-pacific species. They hurt commercial and recreational fishing.


Not sure how I feel about fish farms with area species. Washington State has banned non-Pacific species in their fish farms.

Fish farms and oysters farms are disgusting. They smell. They pollute with waste food and fish waste?”( filter feeders are better). Also I abhor farmed fish especially salmon. It’s mushy and doesn’t have taste of wild.

Yes thanks for this thread.

Feeding wild fish pellets and by-products to farmed fish? Yeah, kind of like burning huge quantities of fossil fuels to grow corn to produce ethanol. Seems like the industry consensus lately though is that we burn two gallons of fossil fuel to produce three gallons of ethanol. One third net gain.

Fish farms and oyster farms might stink and be disgusting, but we live near one of the largest hog processing plants in the country. On a hot summer day when the wind is blowing the right (wrong) way, that plant sets a new standard for disgusting. But we all continue to buy hot dogs, brats, and holiday hams.

If I sound cranky or cynical in this thread, it's formed by long observation. The fishing industry will wipe out natural stocks and then complain about loss of livelihood, and object to fish farming. Greenies will campaign against fish farms (or slaughterhouses) but sure don't stop eating. Celebrities fly jets to environmental conferences and make speeches. Here in SD a couple years ago there were very confrontational protests against a pipeline on Native land. How did the protesters get there? Oh yeah, they drove their cars, gassed up at the Quickie Mart, and then went home to thier houses heated with fossil fuel. Or the hybrid car or Tesla owner down the street lives in (and heats and cools) a 6,000 square foot house and thinks she's all Green.

I think my favorite recent example was a "defund the police" BLM protestor last summer. A guy drove by and yelled, "what would you do if I punched you in the face?" She yelled back, "I'd call the po --.. " Maybe she got the point. My point is that in my observation, almost nobody puts thier personal behavior and consumption where their mouths are.

kthoennes said:

Feeding wild fish pellets and by-products to farmed fish? Yeah, kind of like burning huge quantities of fossil fuels to grow corn to produce ethanol. Seems like the industry consensus lately though is that we burn two gallons of fossil fuel to produce three gallons of ethanol. One third net gain.

Fish farms and oyster farms might stink and be disgusting, but we live near one of the largest hog processing plants in the country. On a hot summer day when the wind is blowing the right (wrong) way, that plant sets a new standard for disgusting. But we all continue to buy hot dogs, brats, and holiday hams.

If I sound cranky or cynical in this thread, it's formed by long observation. The fishing industry will wipe out natural stocks and then complain about loss of livelihood, and object to fish farming. Greenies will campaign against fish farms (or slaughterhouses) but sure don't stop eating. Celebrities fly jets to environmental conferences and make speeches. Here in SD a couple years ago there were very confrontational protests against a pipeline on Native land. How did the protesters get there? Oh yeah, they drove their cars, gassed up at the Quickie Mart, and then went home to thier houses heated with fossil fuel. Or the hybrid car or Tesla owner down the street lives in (and heats and cools) a 6,000 square foot house and thinks she's all Green.

I think my favorite recent example was a "defund the police" BLM protestor last summer. A guy drove by and yelled, "what would you do if I punched you in the face?" She yelled back, "I'd call the po --.. " Maybe she got the point. My point is that in my observation, almost nobody puts thier personal behavior and consumption where their mouths are.

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Love to eat wild food.

Name a kind of meat where growing it and then processing it doesn't stink. Bet you can't.

Name a meat where feeding it doesn't require a lot of input the greens would object to. Bet you can't.

Name a vegetable where the input to grow it doesn't require a lot of stuff the greens would object to. Bet you can't.

Its not hard to find arguments to object to every food source.

Meanwhile, for me its always a tough choice between a nice plate of steak, or salmon on a salad when given the choice. And everything on every menu choice used a lot of inputs greens find objectionable.

Life gets easier when one ignores a lot of the hysteria designed to wind us up.

Yup hypocrisy on both sides but science used by one side (abet distorted) and pseudo science by the other.
As a kid had a girlfriend who inherited a chicken (meat not egg) farm near big bend Texas). Wanna know about tear running stink get near one of those. This was more decades ago than I want to admit. Nevertheless the poop was collected and processed into methane which ran the farm. We’ve known how to do a closed system for quite awhile. Hell even the plains Indians knew how to a very good job of it before we messed that up. Four bison from the Bronx zoo are now the ancestors of most of the current bison.
Fundamental issue is the current form of factory farming be it on land or sea. Plant or animal. Folks have known about the risks of monoculture forever and the restorative benefits of crop rotation. In spite of the hype about genetic manipulation what is breeding other than slow, painful genetic manipulation.
Yes agree almost as much disinformation on this subject as in politics. Here the lobsters are moving north as the waters warm. Cod is gone as a fishery. Trawling has changed the species still in these waters. We need to stop depleting the predators at and near the apex. Just about stopped eating salmon (unless caught on the fly. At that point life cycle minimally effected) and even my favorite pelagic fish (swordfish). Get my omegas from sardines.

Open plains ungulates don’t stink much at all. Elk, deer, bison, cattle crap improving soil health and the cycle goes on. No finishing ranches. No high density growing meat the land can’t support by itself. Sheep and goat in more demanding environments. There’s nearly no cattle in the Caribbean islands but plenty of sheep and goat ( goat tails go up sheep down). Stink negligible. Unfortunately chicken stink but are high on the list for protein produced for material ingested. Environmental impact minimal as well as long as prevented from entering delicate areas. Cattle is the worst the way we farm it. Worst for methane production, lowest yield for energy employed. Highest fat density for protein ingested by us. But I love steak as many do. We can continue to enjoy it indefinitely if we change the way it’s produced. Yellowstone was an excellent introduction to the real world conflicts of maintaining a ranch. Use open land correctly. Keep farms in American hands and disincentivize foreign ownership. Change the current factory farming model. We can have our steak and eat it.

FWT. You have obviously missed the point on this topic.

Fish farms do produce a needed supplement to the food supply of the world. But, the current problem is that it is scientifically proven that they were built mostly along migratory routes of the wild stock. That is the problem to resolve. The Pacific wild stock is being infected and diminished by the non native Atlantic salmon used in farms. There is video evidence of the fry feeding under the pens on their way to the open sea. The food fed to farmed salmon is inadvertently fed to the departing wild stock as it passes through the pen.

They must be removed & relocated to an off the beaten path of the migrating wild stock. The administration knows this and has agreed to target 2025 for removal but is seen to be waffling under pressure from the fish farm lobby.

Thanks steve. Makes sense. Still taste like crap unless eaten as lox.

Hippocampus said:

Thanks steve. Makes sense. Still taste like crap unless eaten as lox.

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Ever try to BBQ a pink salmon, taste just like that. Yes have had farmed and prefer the wild, but then, have not had wild Atlantic so cannot compare properly.

Hippocampus said:

Thanks steve. Makes sense. Still taste like crap unless eaten as lox.

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I'm no fan of farmed fish and never buy it. Except.....Costco sells a farm-raised lox-type smoked salmon product from Norway that is really good, if you like nearly-raw fish with high oil content, which I do.

SteveK said:

Ever try to BBQ a pink salmon, taste just like that. .

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Meaning it taste like crap?

Pinks are ok (just ok) when put on the BBQ fresh, within a few hours after being caught. Otherwise they taste like crap.

"FWT. You have obviously missed the point on this topic."

Yeah, I kinda did, as I was mostly focused on later comments.

But to respond to the point. I used to know a reasonable amount about the topic but am 20 years stale. But what I used to know is that efforts to grow most kinds of fish in an aquarium setting distant from natural water sources (like rivers and bays) pretty much failed. Fish like the kind of water real fish live in. Tap water doesn't cut it for them. Apparently a few can tolerate most anything. Relocation to distant inappropriate waters may not be a workable solution for salmon. Maybe. Just a thought.

FWT quit while you are ...........
look at charts all around Vancouver island, there are dozens, & then some of non migratory routes farms can occupy.

SteveK said:

Ever try to BBQ a pink salmon, taste just like that. Yes have had farmed and prefer the wild, but then, have not had wild Atlantic so cannot compare properly.

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I have found fresh wild caught atlantic salmon to be delicious. I had it when working in Scotland a few years ago. It was interesting to learn the Scots were as troubled by escaped farmed pacific salmon damaging the wild runs as we on the west coast of North America are concerned about farmed atlantic salmon escapement. I was told the escaped fish were from Russian fish farms, if I remember correctly it was pink salmon.

But the petition says:

"I want all salmon farms removed from B.C. coastal waters as soon as possible and no later than 2025. "

That's a far cry from removing pens from migratory routes; which is something I could get behind.

Northern Spy said:

But the petition says:

"I want all salmon farms removed from B.C. coastal waters as soon as possible and no later than 2025. "

That's a far cry from removing pens from migratory routes; which is something I could get behind.

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True, but one side is backing out on the agreement to move from current locations so it escalates. Open up negotiations to solve the issue that started this. you live closer than I do so you must have heard about this over the years.
But you don't care one way or the other.