My shiny new Insurance just got CANCELLED.

Hello Everybody,

I'm an annoying Newbie and got my new to me Trawler insured with Allstate earlier this month when I bought the boat.

Yesterday in the mail I received a lovely letter from Allstate stating they are now cancelling my insurance due to the age of the boat. I feel bad for the old girl as she isn't that old, not nearly as old as me.

Odd that a couple of weeks ago the boat was acceptable, but now - its too old! The insurance hasn't even been unwrapped yet.

Is this something you guys have come across often?

The boat is a 1986 and the letter is attached.

Thanks for any and all insights...

Newb out.

The Letter from Allstate

Not so good at this attaching business, but I believe I got it now...
Here is the letter I received.

What does the broker have to say about this? It seems he should have not sold you this policy in the first place!

Boat insurance was one of the reasons I got out of boating (at least for a while) as I can afford to play in the arena I was used to in boat size and operation...and I had the most discounts any company would offer.

Older boars are now on the blacklist for many insurance companies.

There will be a few viable suggestions shortly, so wait for them. Some may even suggest that depending on the bats worth you take partial insurance such as just liability, salvage and environmental which can be way more available for older boats. You just have to decide.

This topic comes up a lot, but not sure I recall the reason insurance companies won't insure an older boat. Actually, not even sure what type of insurance they object to - liability? Full coverage? Anyone know what exactly they take issue with?

Peter
(1970 Willard 36 - liability only in Mexico)

mvweebles said:

Peter
(1970 Willard 36 - liability only in Mexico)

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Hi Peter, is your policy from a Mexican insurance company?

Correction. Via Baja Bound. Underwater is Chubb but is Mexico only. $300k liability. $500/yr.

We had no trouble insuring Fintry (1972 ex Royal Navy Fleet Tender, 79', 150 tons displacement) and the new owner also had no trouble. The fact that we're talking about an Allstate policy here suggests to me that possibly you need to go to a broker who specializes in boat insurance and not simply call the one who handles your Homeowners. While Allstate is a fine company, it does not come to mind as a good place to go for any but the simplest marine policy. I'm on the wrong coast to suggest a broker for you, but there are plenty of TF people who could.


Jim

Peter at Novamar 206-350-5051 gets frequent mention on TF. I have no personal knowledge, but would be my first call when I return to US.

Good luck. Please keep us updated.

Peter

PS - I wouldn't worry about location. Chances are he works with cruisers in many places.

We have our insurance through Peter at Novamar. He is wonderful. And a nice guy too.

Allstate is not a marine insurer. I have my boat insured with American Family which also is not a marine insurer. My feeling is this: insurance will cover any catastrophe like an oil spill or a personal injury on my boat but as far as really having my boat "insured", I am "running naked".

I am fortunate in that my boat is paid off, owes me nothing and I can afford to walk away from any loss.

pete

Contact American Modern. They insured my 86 Marine Trader for stated value and liability,

Note: all you really need is liability, which shouldn’t be difficult to get.

Kayenne said:

Yesterday in the mail I received a lovely letter from Allstate stating they are now cancelling my insurance...

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I'd wonder if that 'cancellation' is going to be a black mark? Lord knows there's a ton of ways the insurance companies look to screw us, it wouldn't surprise me to find them dinging you for their own mistake.

According to that letter the policy was never issued.

There shouldn’t be a mark since there was no policy in the first place.

It’s no different than applying to Geico and they sending a letter later saying the same thing.

There’s a separation between the selling agent and underwriting that leads to this situation quite often.

hytedin said:

According to that letter the policy was never issued.

There shouldn’t be a mark since there was no policy in the first place.

It’s no different than applying to Geico and they sending a letter later saying the same thing.

There’s a separation between the selling agent and underwriting that leads to this situation quite often.

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There is a November "cancellation date". They can`t cancel a Policy that doesn`t exist, so a Policy issued. Was premium paid/accepted?

The Insurer can only cancel the Policy on terms in the Policy. What are they? A right of unilateral cancellation for any capricious reason seems unlikely.

That said, not sure I`d want them as an insurer.

According to the letter, no policy was issued because the vessel was "ineligible".

I believe there are "binder policies" that cover you till the "official" policy is issued. The binder policy gets you recognized with a file and policy number.

Often the duration is based on fixing items noted in surveys, providing information, completion of training, etc.....

From the net....

"An insurance binder is a temporary proof of homeowners insurance provided by your insurance company
You may need an insurance binder to close on a home mortgage
The binder will include information about your insurance such as policy coverage limits and covered perils
Insurance binders aren’t permanent, they typically expire in 30–60 days

We use Red Shield on our 1979, so far no issues on renewal. Some insurance companies are dodgy if the 110V system hasn't been upgraded for older boats.

Exactly. The coverage was bound over, issued temporarily, for review by the underwriters. They bounced it.

mvweebles said:

Peter at Novamar 206-350-5051 gets frequent mention on TF. I have no personal knowledge, but would be my first call when I return to US.

Good luck. Please keep us updated.

Peter

PS - I wouldn't worry about location. Chances are he works with cruisers in many places.

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We are insured with Novamar through Peter as well. I highly recommend him. Give him a call! Your boat is four years newer than ours.

Had a similar problem. The company I had been using wouldn't cover another boat because it was too large. Other companies wouldn't cover because it was too old (1980). Tried "Peter" he unfortunately was no help (don't remember what his reason was). I ended up going with a company called "Ski Safe". Don't know how they will have worked out in the long run, but they were very easy to work with. I have since sold that boat so I can't tell long run opinion, however I am thinking of using them when my other boat policy is up for renewing.

I have a 1987 Trawler insured with Red Shield in Portland, OR

Insurance companies can usually cancel a new policy within 30 days for just about any reason. I used to do inspections on homes, one of the inspections was for new policies. If I reported much of anything bad the policy would get cancelled. An aggressive dog, a trampoline, an unsecured pool or any such hazard. Most home owners never knew this inspection occurred since we didn’t necessarily notify the home owner. If they saw us and asked we would explain but I really didn’t want to waste the time so I would get in and get out as quickly as possible. Boat insurance is most likely the same.

Following Up with more info...

Thanks for the thoughts/ideas/suggestions everyone.

One member asked about the money trail, and I paid the premium, it was accepted, and apparently Allstate are issuing me a refund.

Another asked about the Broker's take on this, and in all honesty he is almost as confused as I am. He is seeing if there is anything he can do.

That's all I know.

In earnest,
Newb out.

Give Oversea Insurance Agency there in San Diego a shout. They are a marine insurance brokerage and will work to find you options. I’ve gone through them for years. The staff there is very helpful. (I have no association other than having used their services.)

Oversea Insurance Agency, Inc. – Yacht Specialists

Old boats can be a problem. Companies look at condition, age , your experience. Try chubb mine is a 1985 .

I would avoid the agencies and underwriters that only write home, auto, motorcycle and the occasional RV policy. These 'marine' divisions are really setup for day boats/lake boats.

Find a multi-line agency that specializes in marine insurance and only carries lines that underwrite marine policies specifically.

Try these guys:

https://maritimeinsuranceinternational.com/

There are others out there.

Would contact the company that “cancelled” you. Would ask the cancel the cancellation and rather send to a letter in print that they regret not continuing your policy due to they’re withdrawing from that market.
Then you could answer in the negative when asked if you ever had a policy cancelled. Otherwise would answer in the positive. A false statement on an application is not a wise thing to do.

Hippocampus said:

Would contact the company that “cancelled” you. Would ask the cancel the cancellation and rather send to a letter in print that they regret not continuing your policy due to they’re withdrawing from that market.
Then you could answer in the negative when asked if you ever had a policy cancelled. Otherwise would answer in the positive. A false statement on an application is not a wise thing to do.

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This was part of my thinking when I commented previously. And with so many things being done by forms or online, and asking only "yes/no" questions, you're not presented with a way to say "no" and add "because someone else screwed up"

And then you're faced with if you had any other requirements of having valid insurance during this 'covered/not-covered' timeframe you could face penalties/problems. Granted, that's more an issue with auto insurance but could also be a factor if financing is involved. Finance folks tend to frown on assets going uninsured, especially if they've been told otherwise.

SaltyDogg said:

I have a 1987 Trawler insured with Red Shield in Portland, OR

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Our 1979 model is also covered by Red Shield.

Phyrcooler said:

Give Oversea Insurance Agency there in San Diego a shout. They are a marine insurance brokerage and will work to find you options. I’ve gone through them for years. The staff there is very helpful. (I have no association other than having used their services.)

Oversea Insurance Agency, Inc. – Yacht Specialists

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I also use Oversea. Have for years. We have gone through probably 4 different insurance companies. When one cancels they find another one. My brother is in San Francisco and when his company cancelled him, I turned him on to Oversea. They are good.