Another new start for Helmsman

Nancy n Larry said:

...I am definitely going use it on my new Helmsman.Great Product, user friendly and affordable!...

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It looks great! What was the procedure for applying it?

Rick

Permanon

Rick, On the trailer, since it was new, we just gave it a very good wash with Dawn and microfibered it dry. Can also use a leaf blower. The Permanon comes concentrated and you mix it yourself with water, spray on as a fine mist and micro fiber off. They say using a little force while drying gets the particles into the pores. The car was done with another ceramic coating product 2 years ago. It had never been waxed. Again we just washed with Dawn, dried, and misted Permanon on, towel drying it. They recommend two coats of 10% for he initial coating, then anywhere from 3-5% thereafter as needed. Our truck was also done several years ago and still looks great but it’s time to give it a touch up. I have been testing the marine formula on our cars which Permanon says is fine to do. Very pleased with the results. It’s not the heavy duty method that many of the pros use and I expect to redo yearly. Since it’s so easy, it’s no big deal. Many of the boat detailers are using a similar product and want 4K or so to do it. Of course it depends all about the prep. Personally we like to be able to do as much work on our boat as we can. Hiring someone to use the product that flashes on is considerably more expensive.

We might have found our ceramic coating applicator. I found nothing but glowing reports, many of them on the Ranger Tug forum. He got back to us very quickly and we intend to call him tomorrow. He sent a link to a video that explains ceramic applications to new and used boats. I don’t have an estimate yet but the finished product in the video is amazing. He started with his own boat after 30 years in automotive finishes.

Kevin did our Ranger last year. Very pleased with his work. He’s meticulous

Kevin did our Ranger as well. Outstanding work but he said at the time my Helmsman was too big. Maybe that has changed.

We got a quote from him for our 43. I’ll take him up on it if the stock market stops flushing itself before it arrives…

I like ceramic coatings and have been DIY on my cars for a couple years and it's been great. Easy to do and holds up well. The only thing I question and caution is comparing a painted surface to gelcoat. Doesn't mean it can't work for both, but it can't be entirely the same on both finishes. Since my hull is painted, I use Awlcare and Awlwash and it works great with little effort. I guess my point is that I'm not sure the results on a car finish directly translate to a gelcoat boat hull. Different finish as well as different environment. Not many dusty roads on the water. Not saying it's not going to work, but also not sure it's a great comparison. Also, once again I have to ask, is nobody painting a Helmsman hull?

backinblue said:

I like ceramic coatings and have been DIY on my cars for a couple years and it's been great. Easy to do and holds up well. The only thing I question and caution is comparing a painted surface to gelcoat. Doesn't mean it can't work for both, but it can't be entirely the same on both finishes. Since my hull is painted, I use Awlcare and Awlwash and it works great with little effort. I guess my point is that I'm not sure the results on a car finish directly translate to a gelcoat boat hull. Different finish as well as different environment. Not many dusty roads on the water. Not saying it's not going to work, but also not sure it's a great comparison. Also, once again I have to ask, is nobody painting a Helmsman hull?

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I have spoken to two manufacturers about using their ceramic on gelcoat. They are both adamant that it works great with gelcoat using the same reasoning as the guy in the video. They have offered to put me in touch with some customers.

I have also been discussing the level of satisfaction with a fella who had his older gel coated boat ceramic coated a year ago. He is very happy with it and the lack of maintenance in cleaning it.

I plan to use it on mine, so if anyone comes across some science that says that it won’t work well on gel coat, I, for one, would like to hear about it.

"I plan to use it on mine, so if anyone comes across some science that says that it won’t work well on gel coat, I, for one, would like to hear about it."

Well, its not the same as what you are looking at, but edges there, so here goes.

Turtle Wax and other auto wax makers now have a slew of products that are sorta ceramic, or perhaps ceramic-lite. I was curious about them over a year ago, as something that would be a durable one-year-plus solution. IE better than wax, but not as permanent as ceramic. I contacted Turtle Wax to ask if their stuff could be used on gelcoat, and their answer was "it isn't formulated for that." Beyond that, I don't know what the issue might be, other than the more open pores in gelcoat compared to paint.

Just passing it on. Your supplier says its good for gelcoat, so that's more definitive.

Well I wouldn't expect a supplier to say his product won't work for you. Not saying it won't work just saying keep your eyes and mind open

backinblue said:

Well I wouldn't expect a supplier to say his product won't work for you. Not saying it won't work just saying keep your eyes and mind open

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Thanks, I discount everything someone selling something says (to some degree). However, when you have a one on one discussion with someone and they appear sincere, offer references, volunteer further insights and gotchas, then I typically take them a little more seriously than a run of the mill sales pitch.

Doug_Snider said:

...We might have found our ceramic coating applicator...

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Kevin did our 7 year old dark gray Ranger Tug and it looked as good as the day it was delivered from the factory (no exaggeration). I talked to him at the Seattle Boat Show and I got the impression that it would be in the neighborhood of $10,000.00 to do our new Helmsman 38e from top to bottom. We'll have to find another way but if I bought a lottery ticket tomorrow and won 10k I would love to have him do it.

The key is getting the surface as close to perfect as possible prior to putting the ceramic on. Those companies who sell ceramic coating direct to consumers have a process in place. One course of action is to have a detailing companypolish the boat (not wax it) then apply Glidecoat or Permanon yourself. The application of ceramic is less work than a wax application.

Nick14 said:

I think we're getting the same hull color as you are in our 38 Sedan - Pastel Blue (though our construction is about 6 months behind you).

I still haven't seen the color in person. Every photo of it I see looks different depending on the light, shadows, etc. A little nerve wracking picking a hull color from tiny images on the internet, and not knowing what it will actually look like until it shows up.

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Nick,

We have noticed the color changing from one set of pictures to another. The photos in the weekly reports are documentary and not meant to be a faithful representation of the color at any point. Between the lighting and the loss of fidelity in transferring the images, the color has seemed to change. Scott sent us this image of the finished hull with the color chip held up against it. The match is amazing and very reassuring.

Nancy n Larry said:

Rick, On the trailer, since it was new, we just gave it a very good wash with Dawn and microfibered it dry. Can also use a leaf blower. The Permanon comes concentrated and you mix it yourself with water, spray on as a fine mist and micro fiber off. They say using a little force while drying gets the particles into the pores. The car was done with another ceramic coating product 2 years ago. It had never been waxed. Again we just washed with Dawn, dried, and misted Permanon on, towel drying it. They recommend two coats of 10% for he initial coating, then anywhere from 3-5% thereafter as needed. Our truck was also done several years ago and still looks great but it’s time to give it a touch up. I have been testing the marine formula on our cars which Permanon says is fine to do. Very pleased with the results. It’s not the heavy duty method that many of the pros use and I expect to redo yearly. Since it’s so easy, it’s no big deal. Many of the boat detailers are using a similar product and want 4K or so to do it. Of course it depends all about the prep. Personally we like to be able to do as much work on our boat as we can. Hiring someone to use the product that flashes on is considerably more expensive.

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When I spoke with the Permanon representative he said to use 10% but also stated that in areas with a lot of exposure to sun, it is ok to use a heavier concentration. His comment was that it will provide a more durable surface. I will probably use a heavier concentration on the front of the hull, and perhaps the flybridge and top of pilot house. Prior to applying, I will talk with the company again about how applying a heavier concentration will affect the process of application.

Doug_Snider said:

Nick,

We have noticed the color changing from one set of pictures to another. The photos in the weekly reports are documentary and not meant to be a faithful representation of the color at any point. Between the lighting and the loss of fidelity in transferring the images, the color has seemed to change. Scott sent us this image of the finished hull with the color chip held up against it. The match is amazing and very reassuring.

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Thank you very much Doug!

I haven't seen that image comparison, it is indeed very reassuring.

In reply to backinblue's question about painting our hulls -- yes, we can and do paint the hulls. But I only recommend it for those who must have a dark colored hull, which, if executed in gel coat, is subject to fading and other noticeable variation. It is not an inexpensive option to paint a hull.

We've made a conscious choice to promote gel coat instead of paint. Many boats in our class will be painted as standard. The stated reason is appearance and ease of maintenance, but it also relieves the need to make the underlying surface perfect. I believe that our gel coat hulls look great and are carefully constructed, and if a light shade is chosen then fading is a far less significant issue. And the surface is tough and easily repairable.

I have a pair of fiberglass sport racing sailboats which were painted. Beautiful little boats. But the fender rubs and the dings which have inevitably come from using, and even just mooring these boats have been hard on the paint, wearing through in some places. Repair will be difficult. In retrospect I wish that I had not had them painted. It would be different if they were lovingly protected and maintained as showboats, as some would do. But these are exposed to the abuses of the world, as boats commonly are!

Scott Helker
Helmsman Trawlers

Thanks for explanation Scott, makes sense. I only asked because it seems the industry has moved from gelcoat to paint over the last decade or more, but as you pointed out, those might be more because many people prefer dark colored hulls. When I was shopping I did see a couple Back Coves with light color hulls. One a pale blue, lighter than the Helmsman, and another in a light celery green. I presume those were painted, but not 100% certain.

backinblue said:

When I was shopping I did see a couple Back Coves with light color hulls. One a pale blue, lighter than the Helmsman, and another in a light celery green. I presume those were painted, but not 100% certain.

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If I'm not mistaken, I believe Back Coves come from the factory with the color in the gelcoat, not painted.

Tom & Jill,
Been awhile! Are you all settled in ?

We completed our Great Loop crossing our wake 8/8/22 after shipping the Mariner 37 to Seneca Illinois. The boat has been treating us well so we kept going. The Tennessee River has so much to offer. We liked Island Cove and Chattanooga. Weez hooked up here at the Joe Wheeler park the last few day.

It’s great reading here hearing about the new builds everyone sounds like Scotts boats (Helmsman’s Trawlers) are a home run. We are hoping to see one on the great loop fingers crossed #helmsman38 #greatloop22 #reallifeonatrawler

So I took the new Takacat out with the ePropulsion yesterday. I ordered the short shaft. When I got it out on the lake, I found that the prop would start cavitating at about half throttle. I sent a message and a video of the motor underway to the vendor.

It turns out that they sent an extra short shaft by mistake. The option to use an extra short shaft ePropulsion motor with the Takacat was discussed on this thread the other day. If someone elects to do that there will definitely be cavitation and the need to buy the accessory plate to limit it.

Just thought I would pass along to the group.

Apart from the incorrect shipment, did boat and motor perform as expected?

FWT said:

Apart from the incorrect shipment, did boat and motor perform as expected?

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Yes, they did. I will receive the replacement this week. The Takacat inflator is a cheap hand pump called a SupPump. The gauge on it didn’t work. Defender sent a warranty claim in for it. I will probably just buy an electric tire pump with an adaptor and use the hand pump as a back up.

The advantage to the Takacat to me is the ease of carrying it. I bought the 300:which weighs 66 lbs. The motor and battery are light and come off quickly. When we are not traveling “field afar” we will store the deflated dinghy and motor at the house. Really don’t need it here. Underway, we will have it on the back, and the light weight means that I don’t need an electronic lift. I have davits on my dock, and was able to easily pull it up myself quickly.

Disadvantages are that it is a PVC dinghy. It will not last like a hypalon will. You can buy a hypalon Takacat but they cost about twice as much. I am not sure that I would get the wear out of it based upon my presumed use case. If the dinghy dies an “early” death (less than three years) I may replace with a Hypalon one. Another option is to just replace the failed part.

The ride was good in the dinghy. I stood on the pontoon, just as they do in the videos, and it was stable. Playing with the motor a little, I put it in reverse prior to it coming to a full stop, and got a little water running up into the dinghy from behind. But, as the vendor pointed out from my video, the dinghy was under inflated a little on the first trip. Later this week, when the new motor arrives I will take it back out fully inflated, and see how we do with it.

I like the ride a lot, and would buy it again based upon the preliminary ride. I carried it up from the River about 100 yards with a 35 foot elevation with little effort.

Good news. Congratulations

Alba Bella is coming home

We received completion photos today. Alba Bella will be starting her journey to Seattle on Sunday. It's been a long wait but that makes this occasion even sweeter.

What a great looking boat! Of course, I am a bit biased. Congratulations you two. "Help" (mental and spiritual) is on the way! Yay.



Jeff

She's a beautiful boat. Congratulations!

Doug, it looks great! That finish really brings the color out. Almost home!

Doug_Snider said:

We received completion photos today. Alba Bella will be starting her journey to Seattle on Sunday. It's been a long wait but that makes this occasion even sweeter.

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What a beauty!!!

Looks great Doug. Congratulations.