Speed limit proposal

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There is one imposed now south of my location for the whales,10 knts
 
But the article says to reduce the risk of collision.
Only boats 35 feet or larger? I guess the go fast <34 footers are not a problem.
They want trawlers to do trawler speed, OK then.
The feel good new world order are in control.
 
Whenever a Humpback breaches at Stellwagen Bank the numerous waiting boats, including the whale watch boats, head for the spot at high speed. They prefer to be right on top of the whales for best viewing. 100 yards away? Not a chance. Speed limit? Not possible.
USCG would need to follow the whales all day long to enforce regulations. I don't see that happening.
 
You all don't understand. This isn’t about saving whales. This is about NOAA expanding there government agency and controlling more aspects of what happens on and in the water.

You probably were expecting me write ocean. The NOAA dictatorship (that's what you call a government agency that is autonomous and answers to no one) has a marine sanctuary in Lake Huron. Aside from it being an oxymoron, NOAA now controls what Michigan inlets and boat ramps on Lake Huron can be dredged. Public meetings were held with all including the state of Michigan, opposed to NOAA's take over, but dictatorships only hold meetings to act like they care.

The speed limit is a done deal. The next step is to make it for all boats.

Ted
 
SteveK said:
But the article says to reduce the risk of collision.
Only boats 35 feet or larger? I guess the go fast <34 footers are not a problem.
They want trawlers to do trawler speed, OK then.
The feel good new world order are in control.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that NOAA scientists are part of a NWO conspiracy but the
North Atlantic right whales are at the very brink of extinction, justifying the
immediate need to prevent any trauma deaths from human activities.

There are data that show few if any serious whale strikes from boats under
34', so the length distinction makes sense as far as avoiding over-regulation.

There are 100 or fewer female NA right whales of reproductive age left.
Their numbers are so small that the death of even one individual could spell extinction.

There are 30 days left for public comments, apparently the time was
extended. I think anyone with an opinion should do so.
That's what the New World Order would want.
 
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KnotYet said:
I wasn't aware that NOAA scientists are part of a NWO conspiracy ........ BUT you should know.........
That's what the New World Order would want.
Click to expand...

I wonder if NOAA is a subsidiary of ABYC or the other way around. Do you know?
 
Virtually unenforceable. The gendarmes have a hard enough time enforcing no-wake zones on the ICW. A speed limit on the open ocean miles off shore? Ridiculous, feel-good regulation.
 
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The trouble with such over-reach is that it leads to more, then more again. Unwinding that takes many years and substantial legal effort. Best to stop it at the beginning, if possible.
 
catalinajack said:
Virtually unenforceable. The gendarmes have a hard enough time enforcing no-wake zones on the ICW. A speed limit on the open ocean miles off shore? Ridiculous, feel-good regulation.
Click to expand...


Modern technology is a wonderful thing. These will be used to enforce no-wake zones, using leds in non led nav fixtures, using horns of wrong pitch (truck and train horns), and various other boat infractions.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator
 
This is an outcropping of a human actuated overload that presses another one of Earth's natural conditions up against the wall. In this instance... Right Whale potential extinction.

Unfortunately for Earth's millions of natural conditions our human race has already overloaded or is in process of newly overloading hundreds of thousands of natural conditions... some too often reach the point of bust!

Also unfortunately, but this time for humans... civilizations expansion with our resulting natural condition overloads is/are because of life styles and businesses-as-usual that simply can not abruptly be stopped from continuation. Otherwise... the global economic system will collapse.

Therefore, instead of trying to stop human life events in their tracks [such as limiting boat speed to 10 knots] - our human genius capabilities need to concoct solutions that stop human propagated calamities in, to or against Earth's natural conditions.

In this case of "Save the Right Whale" - I propose: Govt subsidized [non intrusive to boat operation] whale-safe propeller cages to be installed on all boats wanting to travel over 10 knots. Just imagine the marine employment positions and boat yard cash flow that would create!

Sure I know that will be a hassle to some boat owners. And, yes... we can all wish items such as speed limits and prop cages were not necessary to be enforced. However, I say: Either our human race learns to live alongside natural conditions without ruining natural conditions or this beautiful planet we live on will have changes in its natural conditions that will eventually kick our rich a$$e$ out!

Think about it. We don't own the world's nature - it owns us; and, can dump us if we don't straighten up our act!

We gotta straightn up and fly right... or else!! :facepalm: :ermm:
 
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Australian whalers used to especially hunt the "Southern Right" whale so named (I`m told)because it was the "right" whale to hunt. Almost to extinction.

Since we banned whaling all whales have come back in numbers, incl the so called right whale. So the loss is reversible, both our east and western coasts become "whale super highways" as females head north to give birth, and breed, followed by a host of hopeful randy male suitors. They then return south, females with calves.
Australia fought hard to stop one country continuing whaling in Antarctic waters.

Many a sailboat, incl in the Sydney-Hobart race, prop at rest, has encountered whales. Some racing sailboats, single hull conventional, easily exceed 20 knots downwind, and could do(and sustain) a lot of damage meeting up with a whale.


Live and let live. If only we could negotiate safe arrangements with the whales. Some seem to know we are helping when our expert crews work to release them when they get caught up in nets floating on the coast.
 
catalinajack said:
Virtually unenforceable. The gendarmes have a hard enough time enforcing no-wake zones on the ICW. A speed limit on the open ocean miles off shore? Ridiculous, feel-good regulation.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the Marine Traffic website display speed, ownership and destination ? The USCG could have the port pilot deliver the violation notice when the ship arrives at its destination.
 
There are other ways besides marine traffic that make it enforceable.

Sure it's not easy but like many laws, make them enforce even just a few times with stiff penalties and it does work to a degree...maybe enough to help the whales.

No law stops all unwanted activity, but with no law, no enforcement at all is possible.

Even that big, slow red ship in my avatar enforced laws that people think were unenforceable. Spent a big chunk of 20 years enforcing many laws at sea.
 
Benthic2 said:
Doesn't the Marine Traffic website display speed, ownership and destination ? The USCG could have the port pilot deliver the violation notice when the ship arrives at its destination.
Click to expand...
Only if a boat is broadcssting on AIS.
 
psneeld said:
There are other ways besides marine traffic that make it enforceable.

Sure it's not easy but like many laws, make them enforce even just a few times with stiff penalties and it does work to a degree...maybe enough to help the whales.

No law stops all unwanted activity, but with no law, no enforcement at all is possible.

Even that big, slow red ship in my avatar enforced laws that people think were unenforceable. Spent a big chunk of 20 years enforcing many laws at sea.
Click to expand...
"No law stops all unwanted activity, but with no law, no enforcement at all is possible."

Yes, you are correct but the point I was trying to make is that this law will have no impact on saving whales. I did say "virtually unenforeceable". Sure, a guy here or there may get caught but when boaters figure out that the law can be ignored with virtually no risk, then the law becomes pointless. You mention "stiff penalties". What amount do you recommend?
 
psneeld said:
There are other ways besides marine traffic that make it enforceable.

Sure it's not easy but like many laws, make them enforce even just a few times with stiff penalties and it does work to a degree...maybe enough to help the whales.

No law stops all unwanted activity, but with no law, no enforcement at all is possible.

Even that big, slow red ship in my avatar enforced laws that people think were unenforceable. Spent a big chunk of 20 years enforcing many laws at sea.
Click to expand...

Well Explained!

Imagine what a completely chaotic mess humanity would find itself in - If civilization was completely lawless. That said... a fine line emerges for making a law. In that: "Laws" need to be fully considered and modified so that each portion of a law is in best interest for the items to which the law portends restriction.
 
catalinajack said:
"No law stops all unwanted activity, but with no law, no enforcement at all is possible."

Yes, you are correct but the point I was trying to make is that this law will have no impact on saving whales. I did say "virtually unenforeceable". Sure, a guy here or there may get caught but when boaters figure out that the law can be ignored with virtually no risk, then the law becomes pointless. You mention "stiff penalties". What amount do you recommend?
Click to expand...

I suggest you leave enforcement to the pros...they have some clue as to works and what the effects are.

Whatever starts slowing them down in mass. That's how some speed limit areas work on roads. Doesn't slow them all, but many if not most start to hear where enforcement is up. I believe the maritime speed limit has worked in other areas such as So. Georgia as they have been around for awhile.

There are many flights every day by aircraft capable of reporting violators that are on other missions or on general patrol. Some can be obtained even for brief peiods f time coupled with surface assets that can sting a few, then check to see how traffic behavior changes...or not. The cycle repeats.
 
I am too ignorant of the subject to comment but I would bet that this proposed restriction decreases the transmission of AIS in vessels not required to do so.
 
Gdavid said:
I am too ignorant of the subject to comment but I would bet that this proposed restriction decreases the transmission of AIS in vessels not required to do so.
Click to expand...

That's like driving over the speed limit with your taillight broken.... possibly just attracting attention to yourself. If under the speed... then what's to worry?

AIS in today's surveillance world certainly is not the only thing that will convict you.
 
Does anyone know the typical speed of offshore / coastal shipping? For us it’s an irritation. Not so for commercial and fishing.
 
Fuels costs vary the speed significantly up and down depending on cargo

https://worldoceanreview.com/en/wor... ship,30 knots (45 to 55 kilometres per hour).

SPEED: The average speed of a merchant ship is about 15 knots (1 knot = 1 nautical mile per hour = 1853 metres per hour), or 28 kilometres per hour, the equivalent of about 670 kilometres a day. Newer ships are capable of 25 to 30 knots (45 to 55 kilometres per hour).
 
psneeld said:
Fuels costs vary the speed significantly up and down depending on cargo

https://worldoceanreview.com/en/wor... ship,30 knots (45 to 55 kilometres per hour).

SPEED: The average speed of a merchant ship is about 15 knots (1 knot = 1 nautical mile per hour = 1853 metres per hour), or 28 kilometres per hour, the equivalent of about 670 kilometres a day. Newer ships are capable of 25 to 30 knots (45 to 55 kilometres per hour).
Click to expand...

Thanks. So this impacts shipping at least until they get outside of US waters. Then no impact. Of limited benefit to whales.

Then what arises is safety. No more gunning it to make it to anchorage or mooring ahead of a building storm. Similarly, there are spots like the NJ coast where its a long way between safe inlets and speed between stops is an essential tool.
 
Not sure if enforcement is to 200nm offshore (EEZ) but really doesn't need to be i think as that far is past calving and feeding zones for Right Whale (not positive).

Never really thought the Jersey coast was that scary. Every 20 miles or so one can duck into NJ inlets except the stretch from Manasquan to Sandy Hook...though Shark River is doable in storms as I spent all my summers coming in and out of there growing up and watching vessels do it....as long as the bridge opens, or you don't need it to.
 
Global shipping companies recognized for reducing speeds off California coast to protect blue whales and blue skies

Eighteen shipping companies participated, transiting at 10 knots or less in the San Francisco Bay Area and the Southern California region. The program’s Southern California region extends from Point Arguello (in Santa Barbara County) to waters near Dana Point (by the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach).
 

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