Dedicated Windlass Battery

Easternshore · Sep 26, 2022

Pearl, our "new 2008 Beneteau Flyer 12" soon to be renamed aggravation is almost ready for her second splash day. The PO (or someone) made some changes with the batteries and one is AWOL.

We have new P & S start batteries, 2 8D house batteries and a start battery for the Onan Genset.

We are missing a dedicated windlass battery and I can't seem to find any CCA specs for a dedicated windlass battery. The windlass is an older Lewmar V2 or V4. As it is currently wired it will only work with the engine running. Naturally I'd like a separate dedicated windlass battery and would appreciate any advice or guidance as to CCA specs & size.

Thanks in advance.

BruceK · Sep 26, 2022

Battery issue aside, running engines while using the windlass is usual. My Muir horizontal draws about 1200watts, Muir always advise running engine(s) during drop/retrieve.
Bowthruster and windlass sometimes share a battery.

Comodave · Sep 26, 2022

BruceK said:
Battery issue aside, running engines while using the windlass is usual. My Muir horizontal draws about 1200watts, Muir always advise running engine(s) during drop/retrieve.
Bowthruster and windlass sometimes share a battery.

+1.

ranger58sb · Sep 27, 2022

Easternshore said:
The PO (or someone) made some changes with the batteries and one is AWOL.

We have new P & S start batteries, 2 8D house batteries and a start battery for the Onan Genset.

We are missing a dedicated windlass battery and I can't seem to find any CCA specs for a dedicated windlass battery.

If you haven't already, you might try turning off specific batteries/banks one at a time to be sure what's powering the windlass now.

-Chris

Easternshore · Sep 27, 2022

BruceK said:
Battery issue aside, running engines while using the windlass is usual. My Muir horizontal draws about 1200watts, Muir always advise running engine(s) during drop/retrieve.
Bowthruster and windlass sometimes share a battery.

Thanks Bruce, I agree about running the engine while using the windlass. PO wired the windlass & port engine to share a battery. I’d rather not share my start batteries.
I was guessing an AGM group 27 or 34 for the windlass and keeping it on a separate circuit.

Easternshore · Sep 27, 2022

ranger58sb said:
If you haven't already, you might try turning off specific batteries/banks one at a time to be sure what's powering the windlass now.

-Chris

Thanks Chris, the windlass was sharing my port start battery, which is contrary to what the Beneteau wiring diagram states regarding having a separate windlass battery.

Easternshore · Sep 27, 2022

Comodave said:
+1.

Thanks Dave, I’m guessing +1 means add an additional battery?

Fr8dog61 · Sep 27, 2022

+1 means he/she is in agreement.

Jeff F · Sep 27, 2022

What's wrong with the current arrangement? What problem are you trying to fix?

If the existing wiring is sized correctly I'd leave it as is.

Mac2 · Sep 27, 2022

Easternshore said:
Pearl, our "new 2008 Beneteau Flyer 12" soon to be renamed aggravation is almost ready for her second splash day. The PO (or someone) made some changes with the batteries and one is AWOL.

We have new P & S start batteries, 2 8D house batteries and a start battery for the Onan Genset.

We are missing a dedicated windlass battery and I can't seem to find any CCA specs for a dedicated windlass battery. The windlass is an older Lewmar V2 or V4. As it is currently wired it will only work with the engine running. Naturally I'd like a separate dedicated windlass battery and would appreciate any advice or guidance as to CCA specs & size.

Thanks in advance.

I get the feeling you want redundancy. If so, figure out if you want a start battery, or a deep cycle battery for the windlass. I'm thinking deep cycle for extended use. I would also attach a separate charger for that battery. Because I have OCD, I would attach a battery switch to the wiring already running to the windless. I would leave it off. It's there in case your battery dies in the future.

Comodave · Sep 27, 2022

Easternshore said:
Thanks Dave, I’m guessing +1 means add an additional battery?

My +1 was that I agreed with the post I quoted.

Comodave · Sep 27, 2022

Mac2 said:
I get the feeling you want redundancy. If so, figure out if you want a start battery, or a deep cycle battery for the windlass. I'm thinking deep cycle for extended use. I would also attach a separate charger for that battery. Because I have OCD, I would attach a battery switch to the wiring already running to the windless. I would leave it off. It's there in case your battery dies in the future.

I use starting batteries for windlasses since they are a high draw intermittent usage device. Deep cycle are generally for lower draw and more constant usage.

BruceK · Sep 27, 2022

Easternshore said:
Thanks Bruce, I agree about running the engine while using the windlass. PO wired the windlass & port engine to share a battery. I’d rather not share my start batteries.
I was guessing an AGM group 27 or 34 for the windlass and keeping it on a separate circuit.

Your original post says the windlass only runs if engines are running, but now knowing it is connected to a start battery (even though a different battery is preferred) it should get some power, even without engines running. I`m wondering about the condition of that start battery.
Two start batteries, one port one stbd, often parallel automatically for starting, so a sick start batt might not be obvious.

Mac2 · Sep 27, 2022

Comodave said:
I use starting batteries for windlasses since they are a high draw intermittent usage device. Deep cycle are generally for lower draw and more constant usage.

30-45 minutes is not unusual for me when running the windlass. I have 500 feet of 1/2 inch (I'm typically at 250-300 feet), and it's sticky mud in this area. Takes me a long time to bring it in as I use the wash down pump. I have two Lifeline agm 4Ds deep cycle. I do notice the motor is slower than my last boat, but I was attributing this to the high torque windlass. I'm wondering if starting batteries would last for this type of use and/or make the motor run faster?

Simi 60 · Sep 28, 2022

Easternshore said:
. I’d rather not share my start batteries.
.

Why?
Alt should be smashing the amps in.

We ran for several years with no alt at all, just a small victron smart charger on starts/windlass battery on 60 ft and 65 tonne anchoring daily, never an issue and we usually pull boat to anchor with windlass.

Now we have an alt again with same victron smart charger

catalinajack · Sep 28, 2022

Comodave said:
I use starting batteries for windlasses since they are a high draw intermittent usage device. Deep cycle are generally for lower draw and more constant usage.

So many routes to the same destination. Our boat uses the house bank (eight golf car deep cycle batteries) to run the windlass. Since we always have the engines running, the alternator output mitigates the draw on the batteries. In fact, I rather doubt that there is much draw on the batteries at all.

catalinajack · Sep 28, 2022

Simi 60 said:
Why?
Alt should be smashing the amps in.

We ran for several years with no alt at all, just a small victron smart charger on starts/windlass battery on 60 ft and 65 tonne anchoring daily, never an issue and we usually pull boat to anchor with windlass.

Now we have an alt again with same victron smart charger

We have no starting batteries. The house bank does all the work. Starting batteries are wholly unnecesary unless on believes the redundnacy of a generator or generator starting batteries are inadequate.

Hippocampus · Sep 28, 2022

When we bought our current boat it had a FLA battery for the windlass and bow thruster. I repetitively blew the ANL fuse if you used the thruster too much. Connections were fine as was wiring size. I don’t like FLA on a boat. Especially someplace where there’s the potential for a lot of motion. That battery is under the sole in the forward stateroom. So I replaced it with a lifeline AGM. Now the fuse doesn’t blow and there’s a lot less brush dust from the thruster. Also windlass performance improvement occurred.
Think both thruster and windlass are sensitive to voltage drop. Think you get less volt drop with a battery in good condition and having the engine running. Agree you always have the engine on when using either. Don’t think even a high output alternator is adequate to keep voltages up without going to a separate battery. Think that’s due to multiple factors. We will use the thruster and the windlass together. Like no angle when retrieving or laying down chain. With the battery forward wiring runs are very short and the battery starts the exercise at 100% soc. Life is good.
We like to leave early in the day. That’s when our house bank is at its lowest. Constant draw over night and nothing coming in from genset, solar or alternator. Given the size of the house bank don’t think asking it to run the windlass and thrusters then is a good idea. Probably could increase the size of the house bank but rather have the boat not list (that bank is in the starboard side of the ER) and need the weight of the forward battery to not be dragging our butt.
Think the size of the alternator doesn’t matter once you’re past rate of acceptance of the battery. Some folks have very large house banks or have Li so this is a non issue. We don’t so get by with separate batteries for the bow functions, another for the genset, another for the stern thruster, another for main engine with the house bank only doing hotel loads. A side benefit is we can switch loads around so will always be able to be functional if any one bank or battery goes bad.

mvweebles · Sep 28, 2022

BruceK said:
Your original post says the windlass only runs if engines are running, but now knowing it is connected to a start battery (even though a different battery is preferred) it should get some power, even without engines running.

I picked up on this too. If, for some reason, the windlass is inoperable without an engine running, there is a safety risk. A common procedure when engine dies underway is to drop an anchor. If your windlass includes power-out, you'll need be aware of manual over-ride capability. If the event culminates in a tow, you will need to manually retrieve the anchor which may take hours if it's even possible.

Are you sure windlass doesn't work unless engine is running? Sounds like a control issue, not a battery issue, meaning windlass control is somehow wired into engine, perhaps ignition switch.

Peter

Easternshore · Sep 28, 2022

Jeff F said:
What's wrong with the current arrangement? What problem are you trying to fix?

If the existing wiring is sized correctly I'd leave it as is.

Hi Jeff, thanks, boat is a recent purchase, we’re missing one battery, specs call for 6, P & S start, 2 house, generator and windlass, a dedicated windlass battery, PO wired windlass to port engine battery as well as wired genset to stbrd start. I’d rather keep starting batteries separate and use Beneteau’s original specs. I had an extra 34m for the generator and looking to add a windlass battery.

Easternshore · Sep 28, 2022

Fr8dog61 said:
+1 means he/she is in agreement.

thx!

Easternshore · Sep 28, 2022

Mac2 said:
I get the feeling you want redundancy. If so, figure out if you want a start battery, or a deep cycle battery for the windlass. I'm thinking deep cycle for extended use. I would also attach a separate charger for that battery. Because I have OCD, I would attach a battery switch to the wiring already running to the windless. I would leave it off. It's there in case your battery dies in the future.

Thanks Mac, good ideas. I want to be sure nothing else is wired to the engine start batteries, especially something as hungry as a windlass. Generator is an Onan 11.5 kw, specs on that say to use a separate battery. I feel the same about the windlass. Beneteau calls for 6 batteries, just attempting to keep it close to original.

I have an extra 34m AGM 850 CCA, thinking to use that for the windlass and buy a group 27 AGM 580 CCA for the generator.

Thanks.

Larry M · Sep 28, 2022

If you’re going to have a dedicated windlass battery, I’d have it as close as you can to the windless. Some have a dedicated battery charger just for that battery and also if they have a bow thruster. The voltage loss from your battery bank to the windless can be large. We used our house bank for the windlass for 20 years over 2 boats and never had any issues. We did run 4/0 cable to the windlass and back though.

Easternshore · Sep 28, 2022

Larry M said:
If you’re going to have a dedicated windlass battery, I’d have it as close as you can to the windless. Some have a dedicated battery charger just for that battery and also if they have a bow thruster. The voltage loss from your battery bank to the windless can be large. We used our house bank for the windlass for 20 years over 2 boats and never had any issues. We did run 4/0 cable to the windlass and back though.

Thanks Larry, good advice, will check it out. Still waiting for the engines to be installed. should happed as soon as Ian leaves.

Flatswing · Oct 3, 2022

Would you consider measuring the voltage drop at the windlass and at the existing battery first to help you decide if it is primary battery problem, a switching problem or a cabling problem? Though I typically require <150ft of chain, I can run my windlass happily with or without the engines running -off either the house bank (GC2's) or the start bank (High CCA's).
My experience may be more limited than many on this forum, but I have found most cruisers and trawlers do not have a separate battery for the anchor windlass alone. It is more common however, to have a separate battery in the bow for a bow thruster paralleled with the anchor windlass for these high draw devices to avoid voltage drop due to long cable runs from the ER. With this configuration one then must usually use AGM (or equivalent) to avoid gasses in the sleeping areas and often also needs an additional battery charger.

Capt Dan · Oct 3, 2022

Mac2 said:
I get the feeling you want redundancy. If so, figure out if you want a start battery, or a deep cycle battery for the windlass. I'm thinking deep cycle for extended use. I would also attach a separate charger for that battery. Because I have OCD, I would attach a battery switch to the wiring already running to the windless. I would leave it off. It's there in case your battery dies in the future.

Deep cycle battery for windlass is completely wrong. The windlass is basically a starter motor and has high demand for short bursts. Extra thick plates on Deep Cycles are not built for that.
Get the specs for what your windlass needs.
Remember, installing another battery bank means another charging system, another battery to maintain, more dead weight.
If in question as to viability of present set up, test for voltage drop while operating. If it is within tolerance let it be If not, you may need to up the wire size, or get a bigger start battery.

Capt Dan · Oct 3, 2022

Mac2 said:
30-45 minutes is not unusual for me when running the windlass. I have 500 feet of 1/2 inch (I'm typically at 250-300 feet), and it's sticky mud in this area. Takes me a long time to bring it in as I use the wash down pump. I have two Lifeline agm 4Ds deep cycle. I do notice the motor is slower than my last boat, but I was attributing this to the high torque windlass. I'm wondering if starting batteries would last for this type of use and/or make the motor run faster?

AGM deep cycle generally have better (high) big amp availability, more like flooded lead batteries. Your Lifeline AGMa might be fine.
Certainly you don't mean 30 to 45 minutes continuous.

Capt Dan · Oct 3, 2022

Hippocampus said:
When we bought our current boat it had a FLA battery for the windlass and bow thruster...
We will use the thruster and the windlass together. Like no angle when retrieving or laying down chain. "

Seems unnecessary to run both thruster and windlass at same time. Hard on any battery, those can be big loads.
How hard would it be to stop pulling for a couple seconds, do your bow thruster thing, then go back to your windlass.
Better yet, use that bow thruster time to just wait until boat centers itself over the chain.
This method will work in 99% of all conditions.

Dedicated Windlass Battery

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