please help, cruising fishing boat

I love the looks of Grand Banks and have been considering buying a 32-36 GB but am not sure it will do what i wish to use it for. I like to bottom fish and troll for salmon out of Coos Bay Oregon which will be her primary use. I would also like a boat capable of traveling from Coos bay to the central california delta and its thousand miles of waterways.
question: Have any of you made such a trip along the coast and if so what kind of boat would you recomend? What about there use for fishing?

Thanks
Britt

I'm thinking a lobster yacht might be just what you need. They can have nice accomodations for cruising but also have a big enough cockpit for fishing. They are pretty salty looking and if you put a big enough engine in one, it's faster than most trawlers.
This is an example: Ellis Boat Company - Ellis 32 Flybridge Cruiser

HopCar said:

I'm thinking a lobster yacht might be just what you need. They can have nice accomodations for cruising but also have a big enough cockpit for fishing. They are pretty salty looking and if you put a big enough engine in one, it's faster than most trawlers.
This is an example: Ellis Boat Company - Ellis 32 Flybridge Cruiser

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nice lookin craft. What kind of range do they have and can they take a beating at the bar and offshore?

A trawler is new to me. The input is greatly appreciated. My favoroite boat so far is a GB 32 but they tend to be pricey unless wood.

gonna do some searches for Ellises to see if i cant go peek at one. The 30 looks nice. Do you fish with yours?

Lobster yachts may be hard to find on your side of the country. Most are built in Maine.
They do have good sea keeping abilities. My boat has a range of about 300 nm at 5 or 6 knots. She will go about 125nm at 15 knots. I have 210 HP and a hundred gallons of fuel.

Mine is set up for diving. It has basic living quarters in the cuddy cabin but she is open all the way to the transom aft of the cuddy.
She also has a dive platform that would get in the way of serious fishing. If I wanted to get into serious offshore fishing I would remove the platform, add a bunch of rod holders and a set of outriggers. Ellis isn't the only builder of lobster yachts. Look for Lee Wilbur and Jarvis Newman as well. There is a bunch more. These are just the ones I'm most familiar with.

"My boat has a range of about 300 nm at 5 or 6 knots. She will go about 125nm at 15 knots. I have 210 HP and a hundred gallons of fuel."

This speed vs range is the choice you will have to decide on.

Sadly it is not possible to go fast AND cheaply.

If you can find a post by Carey you will see a photo I took of his boat as his avatar. It's a custom lobsterboat built on a commercial hull built in Maine. Its cruising speed is 15 knots with a 420hp Cat engine. However these days he runs it at about 9 knots to reduce fuel consumption.

These hulls were designed and built to work in coastal waters under some pretty demanding conditions. The biggest drawback would be the range if the boat is powered the way the commercial boats like Carey's are powered. The working boats don't need a particularly long range since they go out every day and come back later that day.

Actually I found two photos I took of Carey's boat here on my iPad.

Look at an Albin 36 Express Trawler or 35 Tournament Express- they offer a good compromise of trawler sensibility and fishing/diving platform.

geezzz....so many great suggestions. the lobster boat is a good idea but likly hard to find out here but i will look around.
thanks for the ideas

Britt

Another good compromise may be a Chris Craft or Tollycraft. Some of them have pretty decent sized cockpits. Should be reasonably plentiful on this coast too.

CPseudonym said:

Another good compromise may be a Chris Craft or Tollycraft. Some of them have pretty decent sized cockpits. Should be reasonably plentiful on this coast too.

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I agree with Craig - Chris Craft and Tollycraft both have some real good sedan models with great fishing capable cockpits. They are seaworthy too and priced right in today's market. Search Craigslist in Seattle and Portland. Also, Yachtworld has many listings for many boat builders you will be interested to review. Good Luck! - Art

Art said:

I agree with Craig - Chris Craft and Tollycraft both have some real good sedan models with great fishing capable cockpits. They are seaworthy too and priced right in today's market. Search Craigslist in Seattle and Portland. Also, Yachtworld has many listings for many boat builders you will be interested to review. Good Luck! - Art

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but these guys arent very fuel efficient from what ive heard? never seen any with diesel engines either have u?

A few gas Tollycrafts have been converted to diesel. Don't know about Chris Crafts.

but these guys arent very fuel efficient from what ive heard? never seen any with diesel engines either have u?


No Go fast boat is going to be "furl Efficient" , unless 1 nm per gallon is efficient.

Diesel? So you will be out fishing over 100 -200 days a year?

Following is my exact full quote from post # 8 on: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/looking-buy-trawler-34-feet-less-7335.html Don’t let anyone fool ya... reason full displacement diesel trawlers are fuel efficient is because they can only go s-l-o-w! Planing hulls can also get quite fuel efficient when piloted at s-l-o-w speed (as you will see in quote below). The 1 nmpg Fred (FF) mentions happens with well designed planning hulls when they are on full plane and going about 2 X as fast as displacement hull of same size. Yes, in the long run, diesels can be a bit more efficient regarding fuel use – but – gasoline engines are way less costly in the short run for servicing, any major repairs, and full-on replacement with new engine can amount to 1/5 the cost comparison (i.e. $4k compared to $20K). Also, gas engines are very quiet compared to most diesels, especially at s-l-o-w speeds. One thing that diesel has head and tail over gas is little chance for fuel explosions in the engine or fuel tank areas. That said, anybody that has an explosion on a gas boat is simply because they did not do correct maintenance nor take correct precautions for bilge blower use as well as opened hatches for an accurate “Fail-Proof Sniff Test”. Good luck! - Art

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailsman10 http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/looking-buy-trawler-34-feet-less-7335.html#post105556
Looking for a well kept older trawler that can do 10-12kts min and is stingy on diesel.

Good luck sailsman! Keep us up on your boat search... you'll find plenty of info on TF.

Wanting a 34' trawler to travel at speeds of (10-12kts) - Please define your definition of "stingy on diesel", i.e. how many GPH fuel do you expect (want) to use?

A 34' OAL boat with 32' LWL has an approx max hull speed calc of 7.58 knots. In actuality... 6 to 6.5 knots is is the sweet spot for fuel economy, at least that is so on our 34' Tollycraft twin screw. By utilizing one screw at a time (alternating per engine use as appropriate - for hour consistency and trany/free-wheel lubrication purposes) I'm able to get from 2.75 to 3 NMPG through the water - depending on loads and wind (land speed and therefore land mpg alters according to the current's velocity and direction) . By using both engines and doing 7.5 knots (max hull speed) we get approx 2 NMPG. At full plane cruising along at 16 to 17 knots we average 1 NMPG (yes... our Tolly is a well designed planing hull with WOT 22 +/- knots – but at near top speed fuel gets expensive). I believe the 10 - 12 kts you seek for a 34'er would be considerably inefficient due to the attitude-to-level the hull would need to maintain as it tried to jump atop its bow wave... for a planning hull that is. And, I’m confident that a 34’ OAL full displacement hull would simply gobble fuel at 10 – 12 kts... if it even had the enormous power required for a FD to try and move that quickly through the water.

That said: At 34' (or a bit longer - let's say 38 to 42 foot), a well designed, single screw semi displacement (i.e. semi planing... another way to look at it) hull with correct power and prop style/size might be able to do relatively efficient cruising at 10 - 12kts. Again... it comes down to: Please define your definition of "stingy on diesel"

Happy Trawler Daze! - Art

The OP was talking about a Grand Banks. You fellers are talk'in about speedboats.

And before I went offshore I'd be looking for a boat that is good at handling following seas. I think that ability is questionable in at least most of the boats mentioned so far. All about the same as the GB though ... or worse. However the lobsterboat w a big enough rudder may indeed do the trick but many lack volume fwd and that's an asset in following seas.

BUT the OP wants to do shallow draft boating in the bay area so the speedboats may be an acceptable compromise except for the vulnerability of the running gear.

If I were the OP I'd be looking for a good sea boat and just stay out of the really shallow areas in the bay.

There are a number of Chris Crafts around with diesels.

Fighterpilot said:

There are a number of Chris Crafts around with diesels.

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There are diesel Tolly's Too!

manyboats said:

And before I went offshore I'd be looking for a boat that is good at handling following seas. I think that ability is questionable in at least most of the boats mentioned so far. All about the same as the GB though ... or worse. However the lobsterboat w a big enough rudder may indeed do the trick but many lack volume fwd and that's an asset in following seas.

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Point: BTW. Eric... Following sea will catch craft that cannot move fast enough to reach and maintain speed needed to stay on the "back" of the forward wave or waves. For full displacement hulls that cannot stay atop the forward wave's "back" then the double ender design is required as added safety from broaching while the FD looses hold onto the forward wave's "back" and the following waves time-after-time-after-time overtake the FD hull. An amply powered, well designed planing hull has ample speed to stay "aboard" the forward wave's "back" and seldom (if at all – if piloted correctly) experience the following sea’s waves pushing against its transom and jeopardizing it for possibility of broaching. I've experienced aggressive following seas in both style hulls while piloting. IMHO... FD’s required too much effort while the waves overtake it and push it around. Give me a well powered and well designed planing hull over full displacement hull any time in a following sea. It becomes nearly effortless to “ride” the forward wave’s “back”, rather than have the following waves continually ride the boat’s (my) back!

manyboats said:

And before I went offshore I'd be looking for a boat that is good at handling following seas. I think that ability is questionable in at least most of the boats mentioned so far. All about the same as the GB though ... or worse.

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A GB can be quite a handful in a following sea, particularly in the steep-sided, rapidly moving, close-interval wind waves we get in the PNW. A rounded stern boat or a double ender would be a much better choice if down-sea running was going to be a significant part of one's boating.

Marin wrote;

"A GB can be quite a handful in a following sea, particularly in the steep-sided, rapidly moving, close-interval wind waves we get in the PNW. A rounded stern boat or a double ender would be a much better choice if down-sea running was going to be a significant part of one's boating."

My Willy is a handful in big following seas so I sorta cringe thinking how it must be for the average trawler w it's wide flat bottom and very small rudders. Coos Bay to San Francisco Bay has some very open and frequently very rough waters. To use these waters as a highway to go back and forth in a small boat seems somewhere between nuts and a nervy thing to do but to do it in a boat that's probably good at broaching isn't smart. Most trawlers are for protected waters in good to fine weather and where the OP wants to go it it's not like that much of the time. Waves the size of two story houses including their roofs are common so even w a good boat like a Krogen or a Willard 40 traversing these waters will be very demanding, dangerous and extremely uncomfortable. Even Mark's Coot is far better for ocean travel than the average trawler. So what I'm say'in is that this is no place for flat bottomed wide and square cornered yachts. To stick one's nose out of Coos Bay for a bit of fish'in and back in is one thing but to set out for a long run down the coast in the ocean on a regular basis is for passagemakers .... both boat and crew. I won't say it can't be done of course but it's a very bad idea even w a good boat.

With regards to the rudders, it depends on the boat. GBs have pretty good-size spade rudders. In a following sea the issue not rudder response. Our boat goes where you want it to go right now. The rudder response is great. But in a following sea the boat gets pushed all over the place so you're constantly making corrections. The boat makes them right away, but then you have to almost immediately correct for the next whack on the transom.

Yea I hear ya.
After a few hours it gets real tiring and at some point it likely will get dangerous. In inside coastal waters it never lasts for long but in the ocean it last many hours or even a day or more. And I think the GB is a bit ahead of most trawlers in seaworthyness but even the GB is not an ofshore boat. Cautious, well planed and brief runs into open ocean waters is of course commonplace but not trips up and down the coast. I think the 2 boats I mentioned or equivalent only should be recommended to the OP.

FF said:

but these guys arent very fuel efficient from what ive heard? never seen any with diesel engines either have u?

No Go fast boat is going to be "furl Efficient" , unless 1 nm per gallon is efficient.

Diesel? So you will be out fishing over 100 -200 days a year?

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Not likely. I fish mountain lakes bays rivers also so maybe 40-50 days per year. much of the time the boat will sit at the dock as a roost for birds unless its on a cruise. Not many good cruise places close to Coos bay like there is up north or down south unfortunately

whew so much good info

I looked at a willard in friday harbour the day before yesterday and a defever tri cabin 40 yesterday in anatores and today i am trying to get my heater working in drain oregon
The willard was cramped but was like new a very nice boat. The defever was huge weighing 40,000 lbs with twin chrysler d's both with less than 2000 hours. I really liked the defever but its so big and heqavy i think about fuel consumtion.
what do you guys think of defevers this size for occasional offshore cruises to great gunkholing areas like the ca, delta or portlaND OR THE SOUND?

The willard i looked at came up on its own bottom from so cal so i know it can do the job it holds 70 gallons of fuel while the defever holds 400

that loos like a great boat for what i would use it for. thanks Marin

Marin said:

With regards to the rudders, it depends on the boat. GBs have pretty good-size spade rudders. In a following sea the issue not rudder response. Our boat goes where you want it to go right now. The rudder response is great. But in a following sea the boat gets pushed all over the place so you're constantly making corrections. The boat makes them right away, but then you have to almost immediately correct for the next whack on the transom.

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Same here for the Coot, Marin.

It's not unusual Otto doesn't steer properly when seas come from behind as he reacts after the stern is pushed around. Need to steer manually by "the seat of the pants" so one can anticipate the sea's effect. Usually, no more than a quarter turn of the wheel is sufficient.

Some better AP have a feature that will speed up the response to an error.

Since the stern is kicked off rapidly by a big wave , a more rapid rate of response is required.

Just look in Da Book, and set it for the current conditions.