Can anyone ID the manufacturer of this seacock?

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Larmex99

Larmex99

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
169
Location
Mexico/Alaska
Vessel Name
Nomad
Vessel Make
Brix 42
It is in a 2001 Offshore 54' and I need to replace it or hopefully buy a new handle. I have found numerous similar units but not the exact one. It has a cast sailboat on the body. It is not a Wilcox Crittenden. Thanks in advance.
 

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Nope, I checked Spartan already. The logo is on the back side and I can't get any kind of useful pic. I am sure someone out there will recognize it. The handle looks like a Groco, but they don't show this model in their catalog.
 
I think you will find that it is a Chinese knock-off that probably isn't made anymore. Why not just replace it with a standard version supported by one of the reputable suppliers?
 
If all you need is a new handle then just have one made or go buy a wrench at your local car hardware store.
 
I could also use the handle from the other engine's seacock too....if I wanted to, which I don't. There is nothing more that I can do to loosen the seacock until I have the boat in dry dock, which will happen in a few months, regardless. At that time, I will do what is necessary to loosen the mechanism or replace it. If it is a knockoff then I will replace it with a known manufacturer. If it is from a reputable manufacturer I will try to purchase an identical unit. Hence, the posting. So, anyone our there recognize it?
 
It is not a Wilcox Crittenden.

But it could be a Chinese copy of the WC.

Measure the size handle , I may have a WC handle.
 
More to the story? Is it too tight to turn and can't be "loosened" or are you just desperate to have a dedicated handle for each valve?
 
FF, thanks for the offer, but the handle is not similar to the WC. It is actually similar to the Groco, with a square nut and cotter pin. It is cast bronze so making one from steel is not a good idea as it could damage the bronze nut, and using bronze and steel together isn't a good idea.

Rick, I know that I could cobble something together that would function, but that is not what I want to do. I am in Mexico and things are much harder and more costly to get here. I will repair if possible and replace if necessary, which is why I would like to identify it so I could make a sound decision.
 
Who said anything about "cobble something together?" In Mexico it should be even easier than here to take one of your existing handles to a foundry and have them cast a bronze duplicate. Simple, cheap, sand casting is almost certainly how the original was made, or if it was investment cast, a lost wax mold will do just fine and is a primitive technology so even the most backwards foundry can do it.

I am curious about the "loosen the mechanism" comment ... is the thing too hard to turn and that is part of the reason you are looking for a replacement? Replacing a $400 valve because you can't find a $20 handle seems odd.
 
Larmex99 said:
It is in a 2001 Offshore 54' and I need to replace it or hopefully buy a new handle. I have found numerous similar units but not the exact one. It has a cast sailboat on the body. It is not a Wilcox Crittenden. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


I'm with Rick B. In Mexcio they make anything. Gonzales has a machine shop in PV. He made a lot of parts for us over the years in different metals. One issue we had was an internal part for some door handles. Four days and $50 later we had 2. You'll get his current address on the morning VHF net.
 
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Larmex99 said:
FF, thanks for the offer, but the handle is not similar to the WC. It is actually similar to the Groco, with a square nut and cotter pin. It is cast bronze so making one from steel is not a good idea as it could damage the bronze nut, and using bronze and steel together isn't a good idea. .
Click to expand...

How about making a handle from stainless steel such as this commercial seacock:

500402.jpg

Conbraco Apollo Full Flow Sea Flange Valve

Ports: 3/4" NPS Bottom Connection, 3/4" NPT Top Connection

Material: Bronze Body With Chrome Plated Bronze Ball

Stainless Steel Lever and Nut
Click to expand...




Conbraco Apollo Full Flow Sea Flange Valve

Or just buy a wrench that fits it and keep it nearby?
 
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"... and using bronze and steel together isn't a good idea ..."

We had better call the propeller and prop nut folks and pump manufacturers before something awful happens.
 
Rick, Sorry if I offended you. My issue with steel and bronze is that the steel is much stronger than the bronze nut it is attacked to on the handle. If someone were to pound on it, the bronze would give way first potentially causing a catastrophic failure. However, in the real world you are probably correct and a fabricated steel handle is the best option. Stainless is even better for obvious reasons and it is easily available here. Thanks.
 
Larmex99 said:
Rick, Sorry if I offended you. My issue with steel and bronze is that the steel is much stronger than the bronze nut it is attacked to on the handle. If someone were to pound on it, the bronze would give way first potentially causing a catastrophic failure.
Click to expand...

No offense taken here, just trying to help.

If the thing is so stiff that you worry about damaging the bronze, you need to fix it. It is not difficult to do and if you may even be able to do it in the water if you can dive or have a diver available to seal the inlet from the outside.

There are even internal options which include the use of bread and modeling clay if you feel adventurous.
 
It's already been suggested that you take one of your other handles to a foundry and have a duplicate cast. I use a local foundry that charges $8.00 per pound for a bronze sand casting. That's it ! $8.00 and no other charges.
 
I think your seacock may have been made by Buck Algonquin. I would have said Spartan, as they have a Greco-Roman galley under sail as a logo, but you seem confident it is not Spartan..... It is a 'cone' type which, though no longer fashionable, probably because of higher manufacturing costs, can be easily pulled down, lapped and made perfect again.
 
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rwidman said:
How about making a handle from stainless steel such as this commercial seacock:

500402.jpg


--------------------------------------

I had a similar issue on my raw water engine intakes. Only the handles were cast iron on a bronze seacock. Every time you would open or closed the valves you ended up with a rusty hand. Dumb , Dumb, :banghead:

I was going to replace the valves., but the yard said they were in good condition and good quality, we cleaned them and reinstalled. Found some stainless handles, (like the ones pictured) at Marine Hardware, Anacortes, carefully enlarged and fit the square hole and we were good to go.
Stainless on bronze shouldn't be an issue and the handles are light enough that no one is going to pound on them.

Larry B
Click to expand...
 
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I'll just add that the companies that make these seacocks also make similar items for use in residential and commercial plumbing. There's a chance that a good plumbing supply house can either furnish or order replacement handles.

Even Harbor Freight sells similar valves and while I wouldn't use one in a critical application on my boat, the handle might fit.

Valve - Harbor Freight Tools
 
Those things are a long way from the OP's valves ... shouldn't even be in the same thread.

And no self respecting mariner wants to put a bent sheet metal handle on a real seacock. It just isn't done.
 
Larmex99, can`t help with your issue, but is that a grease nipple on the valve body?
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. Edelweiss. Two potential solutions for rusty handles...

Coatings and Adhesives, Rubber and Plastic Coatings | Plasti Dip Interntional

Heat-shrink tubing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the tone of your post I suspect you have already mitigated your rust problem...
Click to expand...

----------------------------------
Yes sir, many moons ago and they have functioned flawlessly ever since.

I wonder about that grease nipple on that seacock? I've never had one that required grease even on the commercial fishing boats.

Larry B
 
Larmex99 said:
Yes, that is what it is and I have greased it without results.
Click to expand...

Prior to greasing lubricated plug cocks it is SOP to loosen the retaining nut on the backside of valve bonnet to allow the grease a free path of travel. If you have an upcoming haulout that would be an ideal time to perform this. Having modeling clay on hand if doing this in the water is sound advice.

Overtightening of the retainer nut on the backside is a common cause of valves designed like this being difficult to operate. Especially so if its a tapered fit, which this one does not appear to be. Loosening that retaining but a bit should make it easier to turn.

Looks to be a good quality valve, if maintained. Casting a new handle should be cheap and easy for a small machine shop. Good luck with your project.
 
Well stated CP.

That valve is traditional style and even if a Chinese knock-off is of far higher quality than the brass ball valves suggested as replacements.

The OP has probably given up in disgust since he asked for oranges and has mostly received combination wrenches for answers or suggestions, but his reference to it being stiff does indicate that it needs servicing. It is difficult to confirm by the photo but it is almost certainly a tapered plug, not all plug valves have a taper extreme enough to be immediately obvious.

The size of the flats where the handle attaches preclude modifying the sheet metal handle of a Home Depot ball valve. There is not enough material to open out and fit the flats and the material itself is too light in any event.

If the OP has not yet tried it, he needs to hold the handle end of the valve with a wrench while carefully loosening the lock nut on the other side, then carefully backing off very slightly the adjusting nut under it. A gentle tap on the handle end will loosen the plug, a shot of grease while the valve is in the open position and a few rotations will free up the valve. Reverse the procedure to finish the job but only tighten the adusting nut until movement is smooth but firm pressure is needed to rotate the handle and there are no leaks. If it leaks at all, it almost certainly needs lapping to seal correctly.

I'll look around for a picture of my girlfriend sitting on the foredeck while I repair a plug valve.:rolleyes:
 
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Good advice Rick and I will try it, but not until my next haul out in a month. Thanks for the input.
Larry
 
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