44 Waste tank hoses

1988 44'
We are in the process of updating the fwd holding tank hoses. Is there a way to extract the deck pump out hose and tank vent line from behind the vanity? It seems Tolly built the boat around these hoses and gooped all holes so pulling the hoses upward or downward is impossible, not to mention getting into the vanity to pick away the goop to move said hoses.
The hoses look original (?). Even if we left the hoses in place and worked around them, how do you run new hose from tank upward?
Any advice is appreciated!

Not familiar with the Tolleys but it may be worth trying to feed a snake from top to bottom or reverse. If you are successful you could likely abandon the old (or remove as much as possible then plug both ends).
New can be fed around a snake easier than by itself. I can't recommend best hose but lots of recommendations for best flexible and non- permeating hose.

For vent it us sometimes easiest to just run new larger hose and use mushroom style thru hull. Typical OEM vent fittings are fuel ftgs with screens and not the best for holding tanks. If vent cannot be run short & fairly straight there are other options for aerating tank... see Bacchus website Projects for tank aeration project that has worked very well for us.

Bacchus said:

Not familiar with the Tolleys

For vent it us sometimes easiest to just run new larger hose and use mushroom style thru hull. Typical OEM vent fittings are fuel ftgs with screens and not the best for holding tanks. If vent cannot be run short & fairly straight there are other options for aerating tank... see Bacchus website Projects for tank aeration project that has worked very well for us.

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I am presently facing similar issues. Maybe easier for me, as my boat was built before Holding tanks were mandatory, so mine, though it looks original, is not between the hull and an interior module. Both the tank and its hoses are easily accessible.
In your case you may find an easier route for your new hoses, away from the old ones, which can be capped off and left in place.
Others, including Baccus, recommend enlarging the venting. I am considering that advice and my tank will now come with 1.5" vent fittings. It is now important for me to find a route for the hoses (pipes?) in that size, so I am looking at running a vent line from the front of the tank, through the fwd bilge to the chain locker, up to deck height and out where the chain locker is bonded to the hull side. There is already an unused heat pipe (from an old Espar heater that was removed years ago) taking up valuable space there that is more than adequate for a 1.5" vent line.
You may find similar spaces when you get into your bilge.

My original vent line has, as Baccus suggests, a fuel type bug screen on a tiny vent outlet. That same type outlet is on the vents from my water tanks, and allow a stream of water approximately 1/4" in diameter when I overfill those tanks. I just can't imagine them successfully venting a holding tank. Shows how much we have learned about sewage management in a few decades.

Only use Raritan SaniFlex hose. It is extremely flexible and has a 10 guarantee against permeation. Defender sells it by the foot and has the best price last time I checked.

Maybe try cutting them off flush with the deck using a multi tool. Then pull it out from the other side. If you can fit the tool in there. You might have to use a carbide blade if the hose is wire wound.

Koliver wrote:

It is now important for me to find a route for the hoses (pipes?) in that size, so I am looking at running a vent line from the front of the tank, through the fwd bilge to the chain locker, up to deck height and out where the chain locker is bonded to the hull side.

Good plan to run it forward 'cuz the thru-hull will always be into the wind--even the slightest breeze matters--promoting air exchange with the gasses in the tank. Not necessary to run the vent that high, though....the rise should not exceed 45 degrees, so the closer to horizontal, the better. So a foot or two below the deck (unless you have very low freeboard) should be high enough..any splashing onto the vent thru-hull from bow wake or messy seas won't put enough water into the tank to notice.

--Peggie

HeadMistress said:

Koliver wrote:

It is now important for me to find a route for the hoses (pipes?) in that size, so I am looking at running a vent line from the front of the tank, through the fwd bilge to the chain locker, up to deck height and out where the chain locker is bonded to the hull side.

Good plan to run it forward 'cuz the thru-hull will always be into the wind--even the slightest breeze matters--promoting air exchange with the gasses in the tank. Not necessary to run the vent that high, though....the rise should not exceed 45 degrees, so the closer to horizontal, the better. So a foot or two below the deck (unless you have very low freeboard) should be high enough..any splashing onto the vent thru-hull from bow wake or messy seas won't put enough water into the tank to notice.
--Peggie

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Thanks for your wisdom Peggie, not rising right to the top will make that installation a little easier.

My tank location, under the galley floor, outside the head, dictates a long, narrow tank. The old one slopes a little, higher towards the bow, but its only vent is a miniscule 1/2" hose with a very restrictive, screened bronze hull fitting and, to top the bad design, attaches to the back wall of the tank 1" below the top. The new one is ready for pick up in Victoria already, and has 2 vent fittings, one at each end. I asked for 1.5" fittings on the tank, but if I can't run hose that big forward (have to pull all of the chain and line out of the chain locker to see what room there is) I can step it down to 1". I have some hard PVC pipe that is tempting, is that good enough for a vent line, or is the flexible, and much more expensive, "sanitation hose" required in this application?

The other vent line will go where the old one went, sternwards into the ER, then over to the hull and out. I can use any size there, so will probably use 1.5". Each will be ~14' from tank to free air.

You can use PVC pipe for the vent as well as discharge from the head to the tank. It doesn’t permeate but may be more difficult to run since it is rigid. If you use hose use SaniFlex since it is so flexible. With your long runs bigger is better.

Thanks all. I spent 3+ days tearing out old sanitation hose. I have seen things that is giving me nightmares.

The old vent line did attach to the described screened thru hull. The line went up the contour of the hull and exited toward the gunnel. In my quest to help the tank breathe, i was going to put a mushroom thru hull, etc. However, as mentioned in my posting, the old line is gooped in so well and we can't squeeze in to where it travels (behind head vanity) to extract the hose.

The holding tank has the standard 1/2" thread to 5/8" hose barb on it. I don't know how I would make that hole bigger to include threading it for a larger fitting. I am pondering running the vent line to the opposing side of the boat in an effort to make the hose travel straight and shorter which means putting a new hole in the hull which I'm not thrilled about either.

There is a rubber adapter that allows you to add a fitting to a plastic tank. For the life of me I can’t remember the name of it. I have used one half a dozen times. Peggie Hall turned me onto it. Then you can add another fitting for the vent pretty easily. You use a hole saw to drill the new hole and then the rubber adapter goes into the hole. Then you just slide the fitting into the adapter. PM The Head Mistress and ask her the name and source for the fitting. Then you can add a larger vent which is a really good thing.

You don't have to run the vent line through the middle of the chain locker...you can angle it (use a 45 degree hose fitting) toward the hull to kinda "skirt" the corner inside of the aft wall of the locker over to the hull. That should not only put the vent thru-hull far enough forward to be forward of the curve in the hull toward the stem--which should allow it to be pretty straight--but also make it unnecessary to remove all the chain, and might even make it possible to just leave the old vent where it lies--connected to nothing, of course. With a 1.5" vent, you really shouldn't need the second one.

I'm throwing all that out based on my mental image of what you actually have to work with...'twould be helpful to see a photo or two.


Raritan SaniFlex is the only hose/piping to use...it's top rated, has a 10 year warranty against odor permeation and is so flexible it can be bent almost as tight a a hairpin--will bend on a radius of 3.15″--without kinking.


The rubber "adapter" Dave mentioned is the Uniseal UNISEAL essentially a rubber grommet.


--Peggie

Uniseal, thanks Peggie.

Peggy
Again, thanks for your wisdom!
Since my new tank is ready in Victoria, and I paid extra for asecond vent fitting I am going to put two lines in. I can shorten the run of the fwd vent per your advice and run it to the hanging locker and out at bunk height, about 1/2 way between the waterline and the underside of the deck. This is getting easier and better ever time I hear from you!
Do you ever come to the Gulf Islands? I will have a glass with you if you ever do. On me, of course !

Certainly won’t hurt having 2 vents. That is what I put in. Not much more work than adding one. This way I get flow through air in the tank no matter which side the wind is blowing on.

Haven't been to the Gulf Islands, but I've been very close to them--the San Juans. The Puget Sound Grand Banks owners have brought me up to do seminars at their rendezvous a couple of times.


--Peggie