Pay Back Time?

Question for all you seasoned trawler owners. We've had a bad an scary situation happen to us several times. While existing a no wake zone, bridge, etc. sometime a large twin engine gas sport fisher or the like will go to full throttle from just behind us causing us to almost roll over. Keep in mind that I'm in a 41 footer; so the whirlpool/wave is pretty big. What should I do? Running them down is not an option for a 6 knot vessel.

Greetings,
Securite, securite, securite. All vessels in the area of XXX be aware that sportfish vessel named YYY is operating in a dangerous manner by producing very large wake.

Hail the Coast Guard and report them. They'll usually switch you up to 22A and give you a number to call.

This could be worth giving a try. Call on the radio something like this, "large sport fish coming through X bridge this is X. I am slowing to idle speed. Please give me a slow pass on my port side". I don't know how you are exiting the area, but if you are getting up to 7 or 8 knots he would have to throw a big wake to get around you. When I am following in that situation, I will ask for a slow pass. Most of the overtaken boats comply with the request.

I think the purpose is to keep the situation from happening.

If you're exiting the area, I don't believe the CG will do much.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Securite, securite, securite. All vessels in the area of XXX be aware that sportfish vessel named YYY is operating in a dangerous manner by producing very large wake.

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Now that's a good one, Mr. Firefly!

Moonfish said:

Now that's a good one, Mr. Firefly!

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+1

This happens to us ALL the time. Even when they do slow some, the wake they throw is HUGE and our little boat will rock all over. Scares the pee out of me. Throws the furniture all over. Tom calls it a "furniture scrambler". I learned later that our little boat snaps back really fast due to her full concrete keel and while good for the boat, it makes the rolling worse for me.

That being said. The thing to do is slow way down let him pass and turn into that wake taking it on the bow, not the beam. Get INTO his wake and then power back up.

It's scary, it sucks, but it's part of having a trawler. The boat will not roll over due to a wake. (should not) The boat can handle way more rolling than we can.

Slow down, let them overtake, turn into the wake and take it on the bow directly. When I'm at the helm and this happens, I also try really hard to not squeal like a little girl.

We don't have the overtaking in a narrow channel problem much at all here but we do get some pretty large wakes from other boats passing us in either direction. The solution is simple and is as desribed by Bess--- turn into the wake. We try to always take it a bit on the quarter rather than directly head on. This seems to reduce the pitching some while not inducing any significant roll.

Being passed

If I am in a que for a bridge, lock etc. I circle back and get behind the go fast boats. If on is approching I try to hailthem on the radio and ask for a slow speed pass. If I do not get a responce I will croud them to the edge of the channel forcing them to slow down. J.T.

awpptdt said:

If I am in a que for a bridge, lock etc. I circle back and get behind the go fast boats. If on is approching I try to hailthem on the radio and ask for a slow speed pass. If I do not get a responce I will croud them to the edge of the channel forcing them to slow down. J.T.

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Seems like a good system to me. I am interested to know how if many respond, and give a slow pass.

If you're not in a no wake zone then there's nothing that the USCG can or should do. There is no violation of any statute.

The sports fishermen have just as much right to travel the waterways within the capacities of their boats as antbody else.

We as boaters need to keep a sharp lookout, and to respond to sea conditions regardless of their cause in a prudent manner taking into account our vessles and crews capabilities.

I do not run our boat up on plane very often, but when I do, it throws a huge wake. There's no way that I could drop off plane for every boat that come into proximity with. The open ocean is a free for all, and nobody I've ever seen slows down.

Besides... It's just a wave.

Awpptdt, Like you describe, I too will "peel off" of my course and come back behind the speeding vessel. It works great and also sends a message to the offending overtaker that his speed has consequences on other boats in his path. I also like that I don't have to power down and/or steer into his offensive wake!

I thought of following the offender to their lunch anchor spot and doing circuits around them at full power, spilling the cheap wine they`d be drinking. But that would reduce me to their abominable standards. RTF`s idea of broadcasting a warning on 16 is better, and Maritime monitors 16.

ksanders said:

If you're not in a no wake zone then there's nothing that the USCG can or should do. There is no violation of any statute..

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Someone could be subject to civil liability.

Law and Disorder

If the turning into the wake tactic is sometimes impossible, as when they come up on you suddenly from behind, and their wake is coming at you from aft of the beam, if there is room, but no time to do the complete loop and come at them from behind, one can bear away and take it on the stern or stern quarter. Of course where we boat sometimes there is no room to for either option except to just rock and roll. I think I might try RTF's suggestion for that situation.

markpierce said:

Someone could be subject to civil liability.

Law and Disorder

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While I agree with much of the article...it also smacks of why lawyers think lawyers and insurance are needed 24/7 by everyone.

I think you might be partially responsible in that last scenario where the boat powers up and knocks down the fisherman in the cove...but a good argument from you or a lawyer could keep the liability percentage to a minimum...by showing what you did was reasonable and had no way of knowing that the guy was there AND the knucklehead shouldn't have been standing when your wake came by (he has the requirement to keep a good lookout too! )

markpierce said:

Someone could be subject to civil liability.

Law and Disorder

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I read the article, and although its interesting, I do not think a wake damage claim would be able to be upheld in the ocean, and thats whare most of us seem to boat.

As a defense to wake damage in USCG waters would be the argument that a boat damaged by a wake was not seaworthy for use in uncontrolled areas. Another argument would be that the captain of the boat that was damaged by the wake was neglegent in that he either did not keep a sharp lookout, and or did not possess the seamanship skills to avoid something (a wave) that he would could reasonable expect to happen.

Anybody can sue anybody for anything at any time. That does not mean a claim will be upheld.

We see this exact situation allot here in Alaska. A 50' charter boat throwing a 3' wake scares some guy that just drove his spiffy 18' alumanium boat off of the showroom floow with the promise from the salesman that said boat can handle the open ocean and will catch the happy new owner a freezer full of fish. They radio the USCG crying a river of tears.

The USCG, copies the information down then does nothing. They just don't get involved.

What really sucks is that it it these same newby boaters that get pissed when you won't eat up your weekend by towing them back to port when their boat runs out of gas 50 miles from port. They are the same ones that get rescued when they prove that the charts are accurate by locating rocks with their boat.

They think that because they can buy a boat that they are competent to operate it. They quickly realize that seamanship is not a built in feature of their boats.

ksanders said:

If you're not in a no wake zone then there's nothing that the USCG can or should do. There is no violation of any statute.

The sports fishermen have just as much right to travel the waterways within the capacities of their boats as antbody else.

We as boaters need to keep a sharp lookout, and to respond to sea conditions regardless of their cause in a prudent manner taking into account our vessles and crews capabilities.

I do not run our boat up on plane very often, but when I do, it throws a huge wake. There's no way that I could drop off plane for every boat that come into proximity with. The open ocean is a free for all, and nobody I've ever seen slows down.

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You are responsible for any accident or injury caused by your wake regardless of wake or no wake zone.

boatpoker said:

You are responsible for any accident or injury caused by your wake regardless of wake or no wake zone.

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I pretty much comply with that statement. In a channel where a boat has no option to get to clear water, a boat throwing a large wake should be held responsible for damage or injury so long as the damaged boat is seaworthy and operated in a responsible manner. However as a boater that is on plane a lot the ones that get me are the little john boats fishing right off the channel. They know where they are and they know big boats go by fast, so who's responsible in that case. Another situation, your on plane throwing a big wake in a channel converging on an 18' bow rider coming at you at 30 kts. If the skipper of the bow rider doesn't know what's he's doing and I don't slow down, he could be in big trouble.
What say you guys?

timjet said:

I pretty much comply with that statement. In a channel where a boat has no option to get to clear water, a boat throwing a large wake should be held responsible for damage or injury so long as the damaged boat is seaworthy and operated in a responsible manner. However as a boater that is on plane a lot the ones that get me are the little john boats fishing right off the channel. They know where they are and they know big boats go by fast, so who's responsible in that case. Another situation, your on plane throwing a big wake in a channel converging on an 18' bow rider coming at you at 30 kts. If the skipper of the bow rider doesn't know what's he's doing and I don't slow down, he could be in big trouble.
What say you guys?

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The USA has more lawyers than every other country in the world combined.... one of them will get you. Even if you win how much will your defense cost ?

boatpoker said:

You are responsible for any accident or injury caused by your wake regardless of wake or no wake zone.

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Ok

Prove it. Provide a link to the statute.

Make it a federal statute since we are on Trawler Forum and it is implied that we are boating in USCG jurisdiction.

Your statement quoted above is based word for word from boater safety texts, and has zero basis In fact. It's not your fault for believing it but that doesn't make it true either.

ksanders said:

Ok

Prove it. Provide a link to the statute.

Make it a federal statute since we are on Trawler Forum and it is implied that we are boating in USCG jurisdiction.

Your statement quoted above is based word for word from boater safety texts, and has zero basis In fact. It's not your fault for believing it but that doesn't make it true either.

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vessels are required to operate in a prudent matter which does not endanger life, limb, or property (46 USC 2302). Nor do the Navigation Rules exonerate any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2), which, among other things, could be unsafe speeds (Rule 6), improper lookout (Rule 5), or completely ignoring your responsibilities as prescribed by the Navigation Rules.

Greetings,
Ms. Bess. Not meaning to sound too critical here but don't you have a provision for securing furniture and other items in a seaway to prevent "scrambling"? Since experiencing a "blender" moment many years ago where our vessel appeared to be gyrating through 45 degrees in a severe beam sea, for what seemed like hours, whenever leaving port, we make sure any and all projectiles are firmly secured. That being said, any unanticipated rolling, from wakes etc. is usually precluded and acknowledged by "Hang on tight".

ksanders said:

If you're not in a no wake zone then there's nothing that the USCG can or should do. There is no violation of any statute.

The sports fishermen have just as much right to travel the waterways within the capacities of their boats as antbody else.

We as boaters need to keep a sharp lookout, and to respond to sea conditions regardless of their cause in a prudent manner taking into account our vessles and crews capabilities.

I do not run our boat up on plane very often, but when I do, it throws a huge wake. There's no way that I could drop off plane for every boat that come into proximity with. The open ocean is a free for all, and nobody I've ever seen slows down.

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The considerate captains slow down. If it's a narrow channel or river, they call on the VHF to arrange a slow pass.

That "sea conditions" comment is fine as far as it goes, but the wakes some of these boats throw (and it doesn't have to be a sport fish boat) would equate to sea conditions that might keep us in port.

Several times I have been passed by an AH in a larger boat, throwing a large wake and even though I do all I can to attack the wake at the proper angle and speed, I end up with everything that was loose now on the deck. The latest time resulted in my coffee cup overturning and drenching (and disabling) my wife's cell phone.

As far as calling out the name of the boat on the VHF, I'm usually too busy handling my own boat to catch the name.

For a documented boat, you may be able to look the name up, find the owner, and either call or write to complain. It's only going to make you feel better though.

Unless someone was killed or seriously injured or unless there was serious damage to your boat, that "you are responsible for your wake" thing isn't going to help one bit. You can't make a claim for spilled coffee and the time and materials it took to clean it up.

Besslb said:

........... Slow down, let them overtake, turn into the wake and take it on the bow directly. When I'm at the helm and this happens, I also try really hard to not squeal like a little girl.

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Directly or at an angle. But sometimes these wakes bury the bow. So my boat is rocking fore and aft, not side to side. Same difference.

Just to be clear, random cursing or just complaining about another boater on VHF channel 16 is not exactly legal. You're supposed to use that channel to call someone and then switch to a working channel.

I'm just off the ICW in Stuart, FL getting some glass work, but while traveling north on the ICW from Miami two weeks ago, I gotta tell you....it was like a battle of survival with the go-fast boats. Sometimes they'd be in bunches of a half-dozen or so and pass me on both sides at the same time, using the narrow track I left on the starboard side as their own private opportunity to really hammer down and get by some of the other go-fast traffic. I practice turning bow or stern quarter toward the wakes (either works just as well with a Manatee) but with the narrow width of the ICW in places and the two sided traffic assault of a south Florida weekend, you're gonna get it. I hope to finish the work here this weekend, but I'll be waiting to make the trip back to Miami during the week when most of the crazys are doing something else.

Something of note though: I did not pass one single trawler style cruiser of any kind in the two days on the ICW. How, realistically, can one single trawler on the hundred miles or so of that section of the ICW expect to get any consideration from the hundreds of go-fast boat drivers whose enjoyment is crashing into each other's wakes? In south Florida on a weekend with a trawler, you're the odd man out.

healhustler said:

I'm just off the ICW in Stuart, FL getting some glass work, but while traveling north on the ICW from Miami two weeks ago, I gotta tell you....it was like a battle of survival with the go-fast boats. Sometimes they'd be in bunches of a half-dozen or so and pass me on both sides at the same time, using the narrow track I left on the starboard side as their own private opportunity to really hammer down and get by some of the other go-fast traffic. I practice turning bow or stern quarter toward the wakes (either works just as well with a Manatee) but with the narrow width of the ICW in places and the two sided traffic assault of a south Florida weekend, you're gonna get it. I hope to finish the work here this weekend, but I'll be waiting to make the trip back to Miami during the week when most of the crazys are doing something else.

Something of note though: I did not pass one single trawler style cruiser of any kind in the two days on the ICW. How, realistically, can one single trawler on the hundred miles or so of that section of the ICW expect to get any consideration from the hundreds of go-fast boat drivers whose enjoyment is crashing into each other's wakes? In south Florida on a weekend with a trawler, you're the odd man out.

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Larry, maybe they were just trying to get a good look at your Double Doody Dinghy Davits.

The 100 mile stretch of ICW that you describe has the most discourteous boaters than any other stretch of the ICW. If the weather is cooperative at all I will avoid it by travelling outside between Ft. Pierce Inlet and Government Cut. It is much more pleasant, and no bridges.

If you want to try outside from Stuart, I recommend you get some local knowledge of the St. Lucie Inlet.

Who is doing your glass work?

boatpoker said:

You are responsible for any accident or injury caused by your wake regardless of wake or no wake zone.

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Everyone knows that but the application isn't exactly as this "mythical....absolute rule"...suggests.

I have been personally involved as a USCG officer and eyewitness of many wake damage instances where nothing came of it because the "system" instantly recognized that there was nothing out of the ordinary or "no lack of prudent seamanship"...just another guy in a boat that shouldn't have been where he was and now want's someone else to be accountable instead of him.

Yes there are some prominent examples of yachts being held accountable but they are a tiny fraction of reality.

My motto... being a good seaman means you are responsible for EXPECTING a wake at any time and being prepared. While they may be uncomfortable...they should not be damaging or dangerous....or you need to buy a different boat...