Costco oil

Just following the engine manual. States 15-40 good for anything.

KnotYet said this about my post;

“And the same old misconstruing. No one has said that marine diesels need
multiviscosity oil. The point is that there is no need to avoid them either.”

Very good point. Why avoid MV oil?
The biggest reason I think is to have more oil in the oil. We use oil for safe and low resistance of all the moving parts in an engine that would otherwise be in a state of metal to metal contact. The amount of friction in the engine is reduced to low levels by the oil .. directly. The additives improve the oils performance by reducing foaming, reducing the buildup of sludge ect ect .. indrectly. But the oil reduces friction or degree of slipperyness. That’s what I want in an oil. And as far as I know only oil will reduce friction, lower heat buildup and metal wear.

I don’t know how one can have the typical heavy support of oil and lower friction together. Lowering the viscosity reduces the support making it much more likely for metals to come together. You could call viscosity in MV oil synthetic viscosity when warm or hot. It dosn’t come from the oil it comes from the additive. 10w30 oil is 10w oil. It has different properties viscosity wise at higher temps only because it has VI’s in it. Does the 10w30 oil have the same support keeping the metal apart? That’s questionable.

But it’s really a question of what is lost at high temps.
A straight 30w oil has a given power to keep the metals apart. Does a 10w oil w VI’s in it have the same ability as 30w oil?

And would 10w oil with VI’s in it have the same level of slipryness as 30w oil?

One way to authoritatively resolve this is to run 2 identical boats, identical engines at identical hours, in identical condition, at identical speeds under identical use conditions for say 1000 hours. One using 30w, one using 15-40. And then inspect engine condition.
If we already had 15-40w, would anyone really advocate switching to 30w? I`ve used 15-40 in various brands for 15 years in various engines and not experienced any harrowing oil caused(or other) engine disaster. So far.

In my experience tradespeople including mechanics are often very superstitious. One bad experience with anything, and it becomes a mantra they keep repeating. Typical of this example over multigrade oils is the issue of the ethanol fuel blends - especially here in Aussie.

If they've ever seen just one car where E10, eg, has resulted in clogged fuel filters and therefore erratic running, (not surprisingly, as the alcohol has loosened a lot of crud that has coated the components of the fuel system), that prejudice lasts forever.

Replace filters a couple of times - issue would have gone away, as long as the vehicle had the right seals etc from new - most now do, and have for decades. My 1990 GT4 loved E10. Running it from new or near new - again no issue. Sure, not ideal in situations where it sits for long periods between fills. Just need to allow for that.

Same deal with oils, which is even less of an issue as the filters are changed regularly and the engines love the new multigrades - they just cost a bit more is all. But the prejudices hang around for a long time.

Nomad Willy said:

Any engine that gets warmup time dosn’t require multi-vis.


Exception; Engines w turbos should run synthetic multi-vis lube oil.



Thanks

Click to expand...

Eric
I basically agree but have to ask about the 2 points above...
1- Isn't an important part of decision to use multi vis the temp range experienced and the problem (delay of lube circulation) at starting? And higher wear rate at starting vs running.
2- if true why wouldn't mfg of engines w turbos specify syn multi- vis oil?
(The ones I've seen say it's OK to use but not necessarily needed or recommended)

Don,
1. Lubrication at startup is kind of a snake oil subject. Mostly opinions. And I’ve offered my own. Most opinions are kind of a scare tactic implying or outright stating “most wear in an engine is incurred at startup”.

My take;
Two stroke and four stroke engines are both lubricated while running. At shutdown the oil remains .. at least some of it after some time passes. At least for weeks. Millions of engines run for many many years starting up on residual oil left at shutdown. The higher the viscosity the better. Less oil will drain off and there will be more “oil support” from the thickness of the oil present at shutdown. Win win … higher viscosity = less wear …. keeping the metal parts apart. If this was’nt true all engines would wear out after running only a few times.

Don they’ve been making diesel engines w turbos for years before synthetic oil. I worked in a 1400hp stationary diesel electric powerhouse. The year .. 1960. The straight eight engine was a 16x20 Enterprise w a 5 ton flywheel. This was long before synthetic oil and this engine was fed RPM Delo 30w. We rerefined our used oil as all things were flown in in 50 gal. barrels on DC3 and smaller aircraft.
But re your question-comment if synthetic or MV oils were required the manufacturer would specify that.
And I might add that the Delo 30w diesel engine lube oil is better than it was in 1960. The whole additive package is probably almost all different.

The above post and many of Nomad Willy's others imply that there will be
an actual difference to a marine engine's health or longevity were it to use
single grade oil versus the appropriate multigrade version. Proof of that is lacking.

Well professor will you please enlighten us?

Did you read my take on having a maximum amount of oil probably aids lubrication? Anything else in the oil does probably does not.
I’m not saying that your engine will last longer. It probably will but I have no stats to prove it. Nor have I read any copy that disproves it either. Many scientists and engineers don’t know some of this stuff. Always learning tho and exchanging ideas on a forum is one way to learn. Mostly opinions but we can stack up the opinions with what we do actually know to be fact .. probably/usually it will result in learning.
But we have internet forums to express our thought, observations and opinions. I submit mine .. you submit yours.

Nomad Willy said:

Well professor will you please enlighten us?

Did you read my take on having a maximum amount of oil probably aids lubrication? Anything else in the oil does probably does not.
I’m not saying that your engine will last longer. It probably will but I have no stats to prove it. Nor have I read any copy that disproves it either. Many scientists and engineers don’t know some of this stuff. Always learning tho and exchanging ideas on a forum is one way to learn. Mostly opinions but we can stack up the opinions with what we do actually know to be fact .. probably/usually it will result in learning.
But we have internet forums to express out thought, observations and opinions. I submit mine .. you submit yours.

Click to expand...

I've posted previously but I can sum it up.
I think that a NA diesel in a boat will not be impacted by the choice
between single and multigrade oil that meets the engine manufacturers' specification.

For engines with turbochargers, oil choice will have a greater impact due
to the higher temperatures and stresses and synthetic oils may enhance longevity.
Blended synthetic or full synthetic oils may only be available as
multigrade, I'm not sure, but are likely easier to find as multigrade.

A number of years ago I had my own 'white whale' of oil choice.
I used to own and ride '70s era Ducati motorcycles whose engines
used roller and ball bearings - no 'plain' bearings.
They required straight 40 weight non-detergent oil.
Try finding that at The Pep Boys!

KnotYet,
I agree that NA engines will be happy w single or multivis lube oil.
And I agree turbo engines should have what the manufacturer recommends as well as all other engines. And if they don’t comment on dino/synthetic then either one.

If I still had my boat I’d run multi-vis or synthetic if I had a need. But the notion that mono grade oil is old school and won’t work in this modern world is nonsense. In cars that need to start and work in freezing weather I usually used synthetic multi-vis. Like w5/40 in my 05 VW Golf. W5/30 dino in my 06 Avalon. W10/30 dino in my 95 Camry and 87 Nissan .. high milage oil. The 06 Avalon gets it’s oil changed at the dealer and I thought they were putting synthetic in it .. but come to find out it’s Mobile 1 dino oil. I thought because it was Mobile 1 it was synthetic. Been tricked by Mobile Oil.

But in inboard boats where the engine is out of freezing weather I use mono 30w.

Interesting discussion, as always. For what it's worth, early on I became impressed with the idea of the oils that as well as being multigrade and semisynthetic, some, like Castrol Magnatec had actually managed to include charged molecules, so as to be attracted to the negative charge of the block, to make more film stick there to protect against the cold start wear issue. I therefore used Magnatec Diesel in my old Lehman 120hp from when I bought her at about 3000 hrs, and she appeared to love it. (I also used the non-diesel equivalent in my cars). Still no increase in oil consumption 16 years later is all I can say in support of that.

Hi Eric, watch for a PM.

I recently had an issue in my 2005 gas car. It was throwing engine codes. The local mechanic suggested that the codes were related to lack of oil viscosity. He changed the oil and all is OK. I asked what that was all about and his explanation included a conclusion that synthetic oil doesn't lose its viscosity over time but non syn does. I have since changed the oil on my other car to syn and will do so on that one before its age (the oil) becomes an issue.

Doesn't matter

Multi-viscosity oil breaks down under heavy loads. The It has been improved over the last 50 years but it is still not up to single viscosity oil at the rated viscosity.

The change in viscosity comes from added ingredients that breakdown before the oil. In the past the additives were much more fragile, hence the warnings about using straight weight oils.

I haven't read any posts of people here running their engines that hard. So we can run pretty much any brand of oil that meets the minimum api standards, including multi-viscosity oil where single viscosity was specified.

Mike

Hi Mike,
I agree .. mostly. How do you determine what MV oil to use .. since all of it will not be on the recommended list of lube oil for any given engine. If the manufacturer only recommends single grade any other viscosity rating will just be a guess.

Bumpkin wrote;
“Multi-viscosity oil breaks down under heavy loads. The It has been improved over the last 50 years but it is still not up to single viscosity oil at the rated viscosity.

The change in viscosity comes from added ingredients that breakdown before the oil. In the past the additives were much more fragile, hence the warnings about using straight weight oils.”

As far as I know all oils break down over time and loose viscosity. With MV oils it should be noted that all of them are (vis wise) what the lower number says. A 10w30 oil is ten weight oil …. with viscosity improvers (additives) added to artificially give the ten weight oil viscosity properties of the higher grade listed. With 10w30 oil it would be 30 weight at a temperature of about 170 degrees f. But it is not 30w oil. So it seems the mono-grade single weight oil breaks down vis-wise less and perhaps later than MV oils.

Another thing that I think we tend to forget is that MV oils were developed to facilitate the US Army being able to start engines in the very cold Arctic. And as far as I know for no other reason. When you see 0w15w oil the “w” stands for winter.
The sentence “In the past the additives were much more fragile, hence the warnings about using straight weight oils.” Shouldn’t that be “warnings about using MV oils”?

Eric, all modern oil is better than the required specs on an older engine. Oil very seldom fails, even with poor maintenance. I buy the correct grade multi viscosity oil but cheapest brand oil for all my engines.

As to viscosity it probably doesn't matter, for you, in the Northwest a multi viscosity may serve you better for easier cranking in the winter.

I almost bought a boat with a Cat engine that the previous owner, followed Caterpillars guidance and used Cat branded single weight oil formulated for the engine. Per the local Caterpillar mechanic, Cat quit having it made for their engines, and now recommends multi viscosity oil.

Mike

Just out of interest Bumpkin, seeing it sounds like you know a bit about oils, and sort of continuing from my post 41 above regarding the Castrol Magnatec range.

If you actually look at the websites, they persist in referring to its properties of sticking to the metal better being because it contains 'intelligent' molecules, which is clearly rubbish..!

However, what does make a lot more sense is that at least a fair proportion of the molecules are positively charged, so it sticks - or a better word would be 'attracted' - to the negatively charges engine, which is grounded to negative side of the battery, right..? Solves the issue of an all alloy, and therefore 'non-magnetic' engine as well. Because it's an electrical attraction, not magnetic, but the name sort of conveys the intent I guess.

I heard somewhere that the concept of developing an oil that was attracted to the engine was a cunning development by the Russians to allow their tanks to at least get back home without seizing the engines, after the Mujahidin in Afghanistan had cracked their sumps with mines, which had apparently become a common experience. That explanation makes a lot more sense to me. What to do you think..? Have you heard that..?

More to the point, if that's the case, then why do Castrol continue to treat the public like idiots, calling the molecules intelligent, when anyone with anyone with intelligence will know that is clearly not the case..? Why not just say the molecules are attracted electrically to the metal of the engine..?

PS. Eric, have you checked your PMs yet..? ?

How about castor oil? Loved the smell of it when used in racing car engines. Would it be useful in boat engines?

BruceK,
Castor oil is not user friendly.
Unless you race.

Bumpkin wrote;
“As to viscosity it probably doesn't matter, for you, in the Northwest a multi viscosity may serve you better for easier cranking in the winter.”

Right it dosn’t matter. MV oil is not needed since our engines aren’t exposed to outside winter temperatures. Why should I want easier cranking for starting? I went for about 12 years living in SE Alaska using Chevron RPM Delo 30wt. Oil. I had a little heater in the engine compartment so the engine never got below about 40 degrees. But the heater was there mostly for other reasons. Engine didn’t need it. Never hesitated to crank smartly and start quickly w almost no exhaust smoke. All other things being equal oil is better w fewer VI additives and a higher percentage of oil .. in the oil. Most anyone will tell you “buy the oil w the narrowest range if viscosity ratings. Like 0w20 instead of 0w40. The reason is that oil is better w less VI. And of course that’s single grade oil … 30wt. 40wt ect.

Found this interesting article on the merits of castor oil : https://www.fixyourdirtbike.com/tips/how/oil-how/castor-motor-oil/

My manual has the usual oil specs vs temp charts and at the end it says 15-40 for anything. Easy.

The manual also says avoid running under 1400 rpm loaded. Last time out I put both at 1600 rpm and made the advertised 8 knots cruise. Flat out the motors do 2500 and the boat 13.

My conclusion is 1600 is good, engines like it, boat likes it and my wallet likes it too. I don't think the oil is getting much stress.

Holly Shat! Talk about differing opinions! This "OIL" thread's revolving-door decision-sequences match or better the threads on twins or singles, fly bridges, hull shapes, anchors and the like! :lol:

Soooo here's my $00.20 [inflation ya know!]

I have many types of wonderful condition vehicles with really strong pre catalytic converter engines. MOF... five [5] of my V8 engines are pre any computer crap and have flat bottom lifters [i.e. "flat tappets"... not roller bearing lifters]!

What I do with these babies for internal oil-lubricants: Really good quality oil with 4 oz ZDDP added at each 3K mile oil change and another 4 oz ZDDP added at 1,500 miles between oil change.

Zinc creates the best barrier I can find between metal parts. My engines all use nearly unmeasurable amount of oil between changes and can rev to high rpm while sounding great!

Well... there's my $00.20!

PS: We also have newer vehicles with computers, cat converts and all that stuff. ZDDP is not for them... and... they run fine too!!

Eric,

In response to your request. The difficulty with knowledge of single experience decisions is you don't know what would have happened with another choice. Oil is one of those choices.

You state your engines love Magnatec. Would they love Rotella better? Amsoil? You will never know. In the gas world Mobil 1 is the oil of choice for high mileage cars and I know a lot of people with high mileage vehicles who don't use Mobil 1 and swear by their choice. In the diesel world, Rotella has a hall of fame for professional trucks/truckers that go over a million miles using Rotella. Doesn't point to a better oil, but it does point to better drivers.

In modern times with the close manufacturing tolerances, I feel, usage is the number one determiner of longevity. When I was looking for a boat and I came across a few professional boats that had 25,000+ hours on the clock without rebuilds and many more pleasure boats with rebuilds before 500 hours. It wouldn't be surprising to find they both ran the same oil.

In your case, my guess, you started babying your engines even more when you decided you were having too much smoke, blowby, etc. This supports your opinion of Magnatec being the greatest oil ever.

To quote my grandfather, there are times when a fancy oil is necessary for a specialized motor and I don't have one. Enjoy Magnatec, it is doing its job.

Mike

Full disclosure, I've never had a million mile anything, 200,000 mile diesel 300,000 gas; I get bored. Anyway they all received the cheapest oil.

For what it is worth, I have been running a variety of synthetic and semisynthetic engine oils in my diesel truck and tractor for decades. The tractor engine is a Yanmar does not have a turbo but the truck has a turbo. The truck is getting close to 300,000 miles.

Both engines started using 15w40 dino oil but I switched to synthetic and semisynthetic 0w40 and 5w40 oils for cold weather starting as well as extended drain times. I have used a variety of oils but mostly use JD or Shell. I test the used engine oil so I know what is happening to the oil.

Most of my mileage is rural highway driving with some starting and stopping. However, for a few years, I would have to deal with being stuck in traffic as well. The bottom line is that I am running the oil 12,000 to 16,000 miles on the truck when the manual says I should change at 5,000 miles, and even at 16,000 miles, I am throwing away perfectly good engine oil.

The used oil tests show that the TBN level still has life left, viscosity is fine, wear is lower than the lab's average for the engine, and almost always, no fuel in the oil. When I did have to deal with heavy traffic, the problem was fuel in the oil, which was still in the allowable range. If I had had more heavy traffic driving, my guess is that I would have had to change oil, not because of the lack of TBN, wear, or viscosity changes, but because of fuel in the oil going out of the allowable range.

I saw fuel in the engine oil with the tractor as well. I thought I was running the engine fast enough but I was not. Adding a few thousand RPMs during "normal" work solved the fuel in oil issue. Like the truck, the fuel in the oil was never out of spec, but who wants fuel in the oil.

Using a synthetic or semisynthetic makes it MUCH easier for the engines to start in cold weather. Prior to using these oils, I would have to use a block heater on the truck for three hours. The block heater pulled quite a bit of power and that added up money wise over the month.

The truck also got around 5% better MPG. No real way to work out the fuel usage on the tractor.

Soooooo, for me, running non dino oil makes sense and saves me time, and is not as expensive as it would seem due to not needing to run a block heater and a slight increase in MPG.

One thing to check in the manual is the heat range of the engine and oil.

From a boat perspective, I would just do what the manual suggests, but I would not have a problem running non Dino oil and/or a multiviscosity oil. Not sure of the cold weather need for a 0w40 or 5w40 oil but that just depends on usage.

Later,
Dan

bumpkin said:

Eric,

IIn the gas world Mobil 1 is the oil of choice for high mileage cars and I know a lot of people with high mileage vehicles who don't use Mobil 1 and swear by their choice. In the diesel world, Rotella has a hall of fame for professional trucks/truckers that go over a million miles using Rotella. Doesn't point to a better oil, but it does point to better drivers.

Click to expand...

I had been using Mobil 1 for decades then began using Blackstone labs. I now use Wal*Mart Supertech 0W-20 full synthetic in my truck 300k +.... Zero difference in my oil analysis reports but I saved a lot of money on oil(darn truck takes almost 9 quarts.. WalMart and many others (I think Costco too, use Warren oil. good stuff for a fraction of the price.... Below is the mileage on my truck, my wife's Honda Pilot has 200k, My wife's antique Mercedes has 260K.. All three now use Supertech and OEM filters(my local Walmart sells OEM Toyota filters for less than Fram...... Use the right API spec oil , change it regularly and these engines can easily go 750,000+ miles..

My Brotherin-law commuted from Bedford NH to Boston for years. he got 885K out of his late 90's accord on the cheapest dino oil he could buy, never a drop of synthetic....What finally killed the car....? Rust.. Engine and transmission were still original and running perfectly, when it could not pass inspection due to rust..

People don't run engines long enough for the brand of oil to matter..

I think this is all much a do about nothing. When was the last time you had an engine fail because you were using the wrong oil? Short of massive abuse or some specific defect in the engine, it just doesn't happen. Just use oil from a reputable manufacturer that meets the engine requirements. And meeting the engine requirements includes use of oils that are backward compatible with older requirements. Picking the wrong oil isn't what's going to ruin your day. It will be something else that you should have been paying attention to instead of fretting over oil.

TT,
That sure is a nail hit squarely indeed.
BUT the most common mission here on TF is to find out what the BEST product is. Where to find it and at what price.

Take anchors .. nobodies interested much in a good anchor that will give acceptable service in most situations.
That’s what put one anchor at the top of the heap. There was simply no other anchor that could demonstratively show all other products were inferior. Didn’t matter that the difference was often fly stuff or that the anchor didn’t fit most boats because it was w roll bar. And later on it was tested w inferior performance in not common but not uncommon conditions.

Most TF skippers wanted and bought the anchor that gave them the best degree of pride in their voice when they announced what anchor adorned their bow.

TF skippers are constantly in search for the best. Not just something that will do just fine. I have offered straight wt. oil for years as .. just fine, and now and then there’s the odd one that agrees w me. Not all of us need an Ultra class anchor but nobodies happy until they know what it is.

But TT it has all to do w the products that are considered best. “Much to do about nothing?” … more like everyone wants the holy grail.

CMS,
I have a gas powered small sedan that now has 304,000 miles.

Not serious maintenance ever performed and 10w30 dino type oil all the way.

Nomad Willy said:

TT,
That sure is a nail hit squarely indeed.
BUT the most common mission here on TF is to find out what the BEST product is. Where to find it and at what price.

Take anchors .. nobodies interested much in a good anchor that will give acceptable service in most situations.
That’s what put one anchor at the top of the heap. There was simply no other anchor that could demonstratively show all other products were inferior. Didn’t matter that the difference was often fly stuff or that the anchor didn’t fit most boats because it was w roll bar. And later on it was tested w inferior performance in not common but not uncommon conditions.

Most TF skippers wanted and bought the anchor that gave them the best degree of pride in their voice when they announced what anchor adorned their bow.

TF skippers are constantly in search for the best. Not just something that will do just fine. I have offered straight wt. oil for years as .. just fine, and now and then there’s the odd one that agrees w me. Not all of us need an Ultra class anchor but nobodies happy until they know what it is.

But TT it has all to do w the products that are considered best. “Much to do about nothing?” … more like everyone wants the holy grail.

Click to expand...

Personally, I'm interested in "better" where it makes a measurable difference to me. Not best for the sake of best. But of course we all care about different things, and to different extents, so to each his own.