Helmsman 38E V 43

FWT said:

NP45 is certainly a great boat. Pretty similar design of course.

Its also taller. Air draft is an issue for the Loop, but probably not a relevant concern in the PNW. The Loop isn't a priority for me, but I do want that option.

If I were in the market for that much boat, I'd certainly have it on my short list.

No doubt you guys like it, because its a great boat.

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FWT,

The one fault we have is the air draft. The Loop is on our potential list. We will just have to take a different route if we get that far.

Rob

Helmsman said:

Well put FWT. I truly think it is use case. What do you want the boat to do? The 38 and 43 are coastal cruisers, and my opinion is that they will do that better than any other boat. Others will have other opinions. We can only go by what we know. Researched a lot. One of the nice things about retirement. Like it better than any other boat.

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I appreciate your enthusiasm but this might be going too far! The coastal cruising I do has difficult stretches under certain weather conditions, and larger and heavier makes the ride more comfortable, and stabilizers are definitely appreciated! Maybe if one’s doing just the ICW it wouldn’t be but coastal cruising is a broad definition.

"but coastal cruising is a broad definition."

INDEED.

For brevity none of us fill our posts with disclaimers. Pacific coastal cruising seems quite different, not having done it.

In the east on the coast and river systems, draft and air draft are bigger concerns. In the west, not so much. And so forth. A host of different priorities.

As we all know, lots of trade offs. Just installed fins on my trawler at the request of wife!

Datenight said:

FWT,

The one fault we have is the air draft. The Loop is on our potential list. We will just have to take a different route if we get that far.

Rob

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The “impassable” (lowest draft you can’t bypass in some way) is on the Illinois River. One bridge is 19 feet. Sometimes a little lower, sometimes slightly higher.

The lowest overall on the loop is a 15 foot bridge on the western Erie Canal.

One pay site I would recommend would be the AGLCA (greatloop.org) for anyone considering the loop. It has a wealth of info for planning, etc., and a lot of experienced cruisers on it.

bowball said:

I appreciate your enthusiasm but this might be going too far! The coastal cruising I do has difficult stretches under certain weather conditions, and larger and heavier makes the ride more comfortable, and stabilizers are definitely appreciated! Maybe if one’s doing just the ICW it wouldn’t be but coastal cruising is a broad definition.

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Yes, Bowball, coastal cruising is a broad definition. I guess I need to caveat the definition better, but for my use case on the east and gulf coast, and the occasional trip to the Bahamas, it will serve my purposes well. I looked at a number of like boats. This one came out on top for me.

Certainly a bigger heavier boat will do better, but the title of the thread is Helmsman 38E V. 43. Just trying to stay somewhat within that size parameter for the discussion.

Helmsman said:

One pay site I would recommend would be the AGLCA (greatloop.org) for anyone considering the loop. It has a wealth of info for planning, etc., and a lot of experienced cruisers on it.

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Thank you, I'll take a look.

Rob

I would love to know what you guys consider coastal cruiser, is 100 miles of shore still coastal? Coming from sailing I would trust so many of you that a single engine boat with no wing engine can still be a safe way to cruise. Of course we all make maintenance a priority, but I still have to wrap my head around this. I love the helmsman so far and hope to pull the trigger soon on a new boat.

khomaizad said:

I would love to know what you guys consider coastal cruiser, is 100 miles of shore still coastal? Coming from sailing I would trust so many of you that a single engine boat with no wing engine can still be a safe way to cruise. Of course we all make maintenance a priority, but I still have to wrap my head around this. I love the helmsman so far and hope to pull the trigger soon on a new boat.

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In some places a run 100 miles off shore would still be coastal. Generally if you're within a day's run of safe harbor, staying within reliable weather forecast range and within helicopter range, it would be considered coastal.

khomaizad said:

I would love to know what you guys consider coastal cruiser, is 100 miles of shore still coastal? Coming from sailing I would trust so many of you that a single engine boat with no wing engine can still be a safe way to cruise. Of course we all make maintenance a priority, but I still have to wrap my head around this. I love the helmsman so far and hope to pull the trigger soon on a new boat.

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There are people that cross oceans and travel extensively on singles. We are definitely not in that camp, and I do every thing I can to avoid weather. We are never more than 50 miles from shore. I have one trip in the bucket list that would require 100 miles offshore (Cortes Bank) and that would be the max I would personally be comfortable with.

You referenced the N41 with twins. I have not been to sea on one, but have spent time aboard at the dock. Very nice boats and typical N quality. If you prefer having twins and you are thinking new, they would probably be your best bet in the sub 50 ft class IMO.

Our previous two boats were twins. There are no guarantees in life, but I trust our H43 and its single engine much more than our past boats.

khomaizad said:

I would love to know what you guys consider coastal cruiser, is 100 miles of shore still coastal? Coming from sailing I would trust so many of you that a single engine boat with no wing engine can still be a safe way to cruise. Of course we all make maintenance a priority, but I still have to wrap my head around this. I love the helmsman so far and hope to pull the trigger soon on a new boat.

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Agree 100 miles is a generally accepted definition.

And yeah, in looking at safety in the waters YOU intend to cruise can be different than me. And yeah, analytically one has to break things down into component parts, but at the end of all paths one has to pull it back into a view of the total package.

I have been aboard boats with twins I would not feel safe on. And aboard boats with singles that I would.

No question that a boat built for blue water passages with redundant everything and hardened for serious conditions is more safe. Your call as to how much is enough, and how much is overkill for YOU and YOUR conditions.

We recently had a long thread on charts, and whether carrying paper charts and a compass was necessary. Many thought that simple and cheap redundancy was not important. My only point with that is that views on how much redundancy is enough is an opinion that varies so very broadly.

One way to deal with the question is a simple A vs B analysis, looking at the total boat. You say you are looking at a Helmsman, so compare that to others you may have on your short list, in your price range. Total package, Helmsman vs Boat B in terms of total safety. Because yeah, its possible to find safer alternatives like one of the big Nordhavn's, but is that realistically an alternative for you? Its your boat, your dollar, your call.

Fletcher500 said:

There are people that cross oceans and travel extensively on singles. We are definitely not in that camp, and I do every thing I can to avoid weather. We are never more than 50 miles from shore. I have one trip in the bucket list that would require 100 miles offshore (Cortes Bank) and that would be the max I would personally be comfortable with.

You referenced the N41 with twins. I have not been to sea on one, but have spent time aboard at the dock. Very nice boats and typical N quality. If you prefer having twins and you are thinking new, they would probably be your best bet in the sub 50 ft class IMO.

Our previous two boats were twins. There are no guarantees in life, but I trust our H43 and its single engine much more than our past boats.

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^^^^^
This

I guess my lack of experience makes me want the most safe situation and redundancy always comes up. However, this over analysis could cost me time on the water as I need to save more money. Trying to find that balance that many of you have already figured out. I won’t cross oceans but full displacement tanks with redundancy keep resurfacing as the safest for me and the family. Just nervous I guess, thanks for all the advice.

Its a real issue. Certainly not one to be hesitant about analyzing to reach your personal best conclusion.

khomaizad said:

I guess my lack of experience makes me want the most safe situation and redundancy always comes up. However, this over analysis could cost me time on the water as I need to save more money. Trying to find that balance that many of you have already figured out. I won’t cross oceans but full displacement tanks with redundancy keep resurfacing as the safest for me and the family. Just nervous I guess, thanks for all the advice.

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My situation was this. I had a two engine gas Carver. Great for cruising the lakes and rivers. I decided to sell it.

The reason was:


With three or four large service marinas within fifty miles, I could not rely on any of them for good quality service. Rather than drag everybody through the multiple misfortunes resulting from trying each of them, just suffice it to say that the only thing I ever had repaired correctly on it was the horn, out of twenty or so issues, some putting me and the boat in danger. (The only reason I didn't replace the horn was that Carver cautioned me against putting my weight on the swept back window. Of course the mechanic did so, judging by the muddy footprints on the aft of the front port light.)

Since I did most of my own work, and always fixed problems found on one engine by doing the same repair on the other engine, the twin engines resulted in twice the work for me. With two engines in the space, there was quite some physical gymnastics in play to affect that approach. The space was tight. One day I woke up and decided no more. Sold the boat a week or so later. Pristine condition. Broker said he had never seen a boat that well kept.

I will take the risk of a single engine over the labor for two, with the tradeoff that one may inconvenience me at some point.

This whole discussion is about risk, which can be mitigated, reduced, but not eliminated on either type boat. The key is that each individual has to truly assess what they find enjoyable about boating, and then buy a boat that will most likely provide that enjoyment.

38 v 43

I am currently waiting on hull 37 to be completed for my helmsman 43E.

This post seems to have shifted to single vs double engines. There is another option I have not seen mentioned in previous posts and that is traveling with another boat.

My friend, a frequent contributor, hashtag “Helmsman” has a 38E currently a month ahead of me on the delivery schedule. Out plan is to travel together on extended journeys. Always nice to have a rescue boat nearby in the event of an emergency. For me its better than a second engine, when outside towing range for anyone traveling that far off shore.

There is often more than 1 boat heading in the same direction so some radio contact and a few friends is a great safety net.

If anyone wants more info on the 38 v 43 thread feel free to reach out as I was there a year ago and decided on the 43.

Just a thought. I have found that things I thought I knew or needed for boating, many times turned out to be wrong once I had a little experience.

Helmsman43 said:

This post seems to have shifted to single vs double engines. There is another option I have not seen mentioned in previous posts and that is traveling with another boat.

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Traveling with other boats is a fairly common practice. I did it with a buddy who has a 35 ft. sailboat last Summer. His cruise speed is a bit slower so for longer runs he would depart a couple hours prior to me and I would catch up to him at some point. We both monitored 16 and hailed each other at the top of every hour, then “went up” to a different working channel so we could chat freely. Nice way to keep in touch with each other as we were both solo.

Hi, I would love to hear more on your process between the 38 and the 43. I am actually waiting on access to videos from Helmsman on the the two boats. Hopefully soon I will be able to head up to Seattle and get on board some with my wife. I lean towards the 43 but all I really know is that it should be roomier. Hard to tell from videos. Love to hear what you learned.

khomaizad said:

Hi, I would love to hear more on your process between the 38 and the 43. I am actually waiting on access to videos from Helmsman on the the two boats. Hopefully soon I will be able to head up to Seattle and get on board some with my wife. I lean towards the 43 but all I really know is that it should be roomier. Hard to tell from videos. Love to hear what you learned.

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I have been on both on a visit to see Scott and group.

The signature differences to me were that you will get two bedrooms on a 43, the cockpit is roomier, the salon is a little longer, and the hull is about a foot higher off the water. The boat is about 5000 lbs heavier dry, and has larger fuel and water tankage than the 38E.

I think there would be more room for a Seakeeper on the 43.

I would have looked harder at a 43 if I didn’t have a limitation on my home dock. TVA limits private docks to 1,000 sq feet for those built after 1999. Regulatory over reach driven by people who probably would never own a larger boat.

I think I would have still settled on the 38E using the 80-20 usage rule. On my previous boat, we had stay over guests about 7 times in 4 years. The convertible salon will work great for us.

This decision really is a personal preference and cost decision. Bear in mind that a 46 is also available which I think will be class A.

38 v 43

Happy to communicate with you on my 43 decision. Send me an email with your phone number and I’ll call you. Bobellis@pa.net

Email me with your phone number BobEllis@pa.net

This forum is incredible as you all are aware. Helmsman43 took over an hour on the phone with me and he was super helpful. We have never met, but im going through some of what he already went through. He offered me his personal information and we connected and had a great conversation. I cant thank him enough....