Do I Really Need an FCC License for VHF Use in Canada?

I have heard over the years a dozen or so DSC alerts go off, In Canada followed by a 'mayday' call from USA boats, with BoatUS mmsi numbers giving position and locations. No issues here. I

No one cares about whether or not if you as a recreational boater, have a FCC radio license.

Thanks to all. I applied for and received my FCC license. Opted for the better safe than sorry option.

Aequitas said:

Thanks to all. I applied for and received my FCC license. Opted for the better safe than sorry option.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a great plan…

Rslifkin has it exactly right.

If they want boaters to follow the law on this, they should make the law clear and make the mechanism for complying easy.

The fact that we are discussing it shows that neither of these conditions apply in this case.

ssobol said:

If they want boaters to follow the law on this, they should make the law clear and make the mechanism for complying easy.

The fact that we are discussing it shows that neither of these conditions apply in this case.

Click to expand...

Agree,
the law is confusing, and the FCC can be confusing to deal with. When I applied, it to months to get the license, and only after begging them to send it. The web site didn't work and they were no help.

ssobol said:

If they want boaters to follow the law on this, they should make the law clear and make the mechanism for complying easy.



The fact that we are discussing it shows that neither of these conditions apply in this case.

Click to expand...

Agree and have to wonder why on recreational vessels both a station and operator license is required ( other than addnl $).
Unlike a commercial vessel with rotation shifts / crews, recreational vessels the owner is the operator. Even if owner / operator has the required licenses does that mean no one else aboard should be operating the radio, even in case of emergency??

From the other direction. We are a Canadian flagged vessel heading to the United States. We have our operators VHF licenses, but we had to obtain our vessel station license and call sign to be legal in the US.

Bacchus said:

Agree and have to wonder why on recreational vessels both a station and operator license is required ( other than addnl $).
Unlike a commercial vessel with rotation shifts / crews, recreational vessels the owner is the operator. Even if owner / operator has the required licenses does that mean no one else aboard should be operating the radio, even in case of emergency??

Click to expand...

I think the separate licensing is mostly a matter of what the international expectations are. Generally it would be fine for others aboard to use the VHF as long as there is a licensed person aboard (with the idea being that the licensed person would monitor usage, protocol, etc.)

Bacchus said:

Agree and have to wonder why on recreational vessels both a station and operator license is required ( other than addnl $).
Unlike a commercial vessel with rotation shifts / crews, recreational vessels the owner is the operator. Even if owner / operator has the required licenses does that mean no one else aboard should be operating the radio, even in case of emergency??

Click to expand...

The ship station license is for the vessel. It covers the equipment on board. It doesn't matter who operates the equipment as long as they are licensed. The operator's license is for the human. It doesn't matter which ship the operator is on.

A rough analogy would be vehicle registration and driver's license.

I’ve been boarded by the CCG near the entrance to the Welland Canal. No one was concerned at all about the radio or a VHS license. Didn’t even ask. They did a full search of the boat, looking for contraband.
Today, they will be more interested in your vax status.

Required, yes. Essential? NO ! ! !

I am two weeks post Richelieu, St Lawrence, Ottawa R, Rideau and down to Kingston, where we are now.
Not only was the VHF not useful, none of the locks responded on the channels recommended.
There was virtually no communication on any of the channels, save Canadian Coast Guard.
We are now headed to Trent Severn, Georgian Bay, then south. I suspect this will not be an issue!.

Portage_Bay said:

The ship station license is for the vessel. It covers the equipment on board. It doesn't matter who operates the equipment as long as they are licensed. The operator's license is for the human. It doesn't matter which ship the operator is on.

A rough analogy would be vehicle registration and driver's license.

Click to expand...

Yup I get the analogy except that in that case the requirement is consistent... both reqd in all states and internationally.
With VHF domestic has found no use with the previous license reqmts and nothing is reqd until you cross an imaginary line where you now are reqd to have both. It just seems like a reqmt ripe for reform?

Aequitas said:

Planning a 2-3 week cruise into Canadian waters, Richelieu and Rideau Canals, Lake Ontario, etc. Skipper Bob's guide indicates I need to obtain an FCC license to meet Canada's requirements. $185 fee. I would need to also reprogram my AIS and VHS. Is this really necessary? This will likely be our only voyage to Canada as we cruise the East Coast predominantly. Curious about other's experiences.

Click to expand...

As Canadian boaters our AIS and VHF worked just fine through the Loop. As for the license, quite a few boaters use VHF radios without a license for years. Actually never heard of anyone actually being charged in over 50 yrs of boating.

Seevee said:

Agree,
the law is confusing, and the FCC can be confusing to deal with. When I applied, it to months to get the license, and only after begging them to send it. The web site didn't work and they were no help.

Click to expand...

FWIW I applied via the FCC website about a month ago and got my license & MMSI back within 48 hours. Apparently they have resolved their website / process issues.

ssobol said:

If they want boaters to follow the law on this, they should make the law clear and make the mechanism for complying easy.

The fact that we are discussing it shows that neither of these conditions apply in this case.

Click to expand...

I really disagree on both points.


The rules/laws are very clear when you need the license, and when you don't. Let's be frank - the original question was not about the rules. It was about getting away with ignoring the rules.


And the mechanism for complying is straight forward as well. Go to the FCC web site, set up an account, purchase the two licenses required, and within 48hrs you will have it via email.

Bacchus said:

Agree and have to wonder why on recreational vessels both a station and operator license is required ( other than addnl $).
Unlike a commercial vessel with rotation shifts / crews, recreational vessels the owner is the operator. Even if owner / operator has the required licenses does that mean no one else aboard should be operating the radio, even in case of emergency??

Click to expand...

And it's not required, just as you suggest, if you only operate in US waters.

Bureaucracy is the problem. Someone decides this is how we will do it, end of discussion.

Canadian flagged while in Canada do not need station license. US flagged do not need station license while in the US. Seems like there is no importance to have a license until you cross the line, then some magic happens and you need a station license to operate a radio. Typical stupidity on both sides.

Well here's a practical question related to this topic: After all this discussion I figured just for kicks I'd go to the FCC licensing portal (CORES) and check my status, refresh my memory on my expiration dates, renew if necessary, etc. I originally got the license in November 2014, but I probably haven't logged into that site since 2015. I have my FRN and call sign numbers, and the password I used in 2014/15, but now it wants a username (email address). The site is confusing me -- I can't log in with the previous numbers, but I don't want to create a whole new account or new application, because I'm already in there (I did a public record lookup to confirm). Any tips?

I'm talking about this page in particular -- not to be dense, but is it requiring me to create a whole new account anyway, and then "associate" my already-existing/previous FRN and call sign with the new account? Boy what a bear, they really need to do consumer testing with their site designs.

https://www.fcc.gov/licensing-databases/commission-registration-system-fcc

While both governments tacitly acknowledge that enforcing the regulations between the US and Canada is something of a nuisance re: recreational mariners, they are bound by a treaty-level agreement: the Great Lakes Radio Agreement of 1973. Regs are codified in Canadian Treaty E101988 - 1975 No. 14, and subpart T of the FCC regulations found in 47CFR80.951-971. All are really aimed at compulsory vessels (e.g., greater than 67 feet) but they don't exempt small vessels.

In the U.S., small vessels are "licensed by rule" and don't require the Ship Station license if engaged in domestic voyaging. These boats can apply for a MMSI from BoatUS or the United States Power Squadrons. Those MMSIs are *not* meant for international voyages and are not uploaded into the IMO database.

If you plan to boat in foreign or international waters, cough up the cash for the licenses and rest easy that you will be able to summon help if you need it.

Bacchus said:

Legally it is required.
Practically not even an issue IMO.
I have cruised into Canada over 30 years and never had the required licenses...
I have never heard of anyone being cited or even asked.
I have communicated w/ Canadian CG and never asked to identify myself other than w boat name.

Click to expand...

Same here…

psneeld said:

Good answer.

Click to expand...

It really is the only reason to Doc your boat with plans to go international.

We both have Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Licenses -- got them back before VHF -- when SOS was on 2182 and ship to shoreside telephone was ATT a long way away. Our boats have all had station licenses -- we've gone foreign in all of them, including the circumnav.


I can't recall anyone ever asking to see either license, but the law's the law.


Jim

My Restricted Operator Certificate (Maritime) [ROC(M)] is issued by Industry Canada, the ministry that manages the radio frequency spectrum.

Unlike many other coast guards around the world, the CCG is not a military or law enforcement service, meaning that it does not have the mandate to enforce Canadian law.

As a CCG guy I know says "we are here to help, not to hinder".