Geico Marine Insurance

Comodave · Jun 8, 2022

Ok, I have been insured with Boat/US (Geico) for well over 40 years. We bought our Formula 41PC last summer. The survey listed the value of the boat as $120,000. I spent over $60,000 this last winter upgrading the boat, new canvas and upholstery, bow and stern thrusters, swim platform extension, SeaDek all over, all new electronics, new carpeting inside, and a host of minor things. So I sent Geico the receipts for major work and asked them to raise the value from $120,000 to reflect the increased value of the boat.

I got an email today saying that due to the dates of the receipts and the “current fair market value” they wouldn’t raise the insured value. Not sure what the receipt dates means since they all were after I bought this boat. But they say the current fair market value is $77,000. So I call them and ask how they determine the “current fair market value”. They said they use BUC and NADA. I ask why they don’t use soldboats.com since it is current. They said they only use soldboats when a boat isn’t in the blue books. I speak to multiple people including supervisors and get nowhere. I tell them to look at Yachtworld.com and see what 41PCs are being listed at, nope. They tell me soldboats.com isn’t reliable data since it takes in account inflation and current prices??? I ask isn’t that the definition of “current fair market value “. More talking points that make no sense. They say they know people are paying more for boats than they are worth…. Duh, if that is the going price then why isn’t that the “current fair market value “. More nonsense talking points.

Now the good news!

I was paying about $1250 per year for $120,000 at Geico Marine with a 2% deductible. I called Peter at Novamar Insurance. What a wonderful breath of fresh air compared to Geico! We talked about my situation and he came up with a couple of choices for me. Chubb and Markel. I went with Markel. Peter got me coverage for $190,000 and 1% deductible for $1,550. Also the medical and personal property coverage is way better. He got it done quickly and very efficiently. I have my new coverage and have canceled the Geico insurance.

So if anyone out there needs insurance, give Peter a call. I thought I would stay with Boat/US Geico for ever but Peter beat them badly. No affiliation other than a very satisfied customer.

Bmarler · Jun 12, 2022

i was with boat us for 25 years or more. but when they went with geico i completely lost faith in them. when i sold my last boat that was insured through them i decided i'd go another way. i'm using peter as my insurance guy too. great guy with lots of knowledge, highly recommend.

rslifkin · Jun 12, 2022

I'll second Peter being excellent to work with.

Pau Hana · Jun 12, 2022

Comodave said:
Ok, I have been insured with Boat/US (Geico) for well over 40 years. We bought our Formula 41PC last summer. The survey listed the value of the boat as $120,000. I spent over $60,000 this last winter upgrading the boat, new canvas and upholstery, bow and stern thrusters, swim platform extension, SeaDek all over, all new electronics, new carpeting inside, and a host of minor things. So I sent Geico the receipts for major work and asked them to raise the value from $120,000 to reflect the increased value of the boat.

I got an email today saying that due to the dates of the receipts and the “current fair market value” they wouldn’t raise the insured value. Not sure what the receipt dates means since they all were after I bought this boat. But they say the current fair market value is $77,000. So I call them and ask how they determine the “current fair market value”. They said they use BUC and NADA. I ask why they don’t use soldboats.com since it is current. They said they only use soldboats when a boat isn’t in the blue books. I speak to multiple people including supervisors and get nowhere. I tell them to look at Yachtworld.com and see what 41PCs are being listed at, nope. They tell me soldboats.com isn’t reliable data since it takes in account inflation and current prices??? I ask isn’t that the definition of “current fair market value “. More talking points that make no sense. They say they know people are paying more for boats than they are worth…. Duh, if that is the going price then why isn’t that the “current fair market value “. More nonsense talking points.

Now the good news!

I was paying about $1250 per year for $120,000 at Geico Marine with a 2% deductible. I called Peter at Novamar Insurance. What a wonderful breath of fresh air compared to Geico! We talked about my situation and he came up with a couple of choices for me. Chubb and Markel. I went with Markel. Peter got me coverage for $190,000 and 1% deductible for $1,550. Also the medical and personal property coverage is way better. He got it done quickly and very efficiently. I have my new coverage and have canceled the Geico insurance.

So if anyone out there needs insurance, give Peter a call. I thought I would stay with Boat/US Geico for ever but Peter beat them badly. No affiliation other than a very satisfied customer.

Happy to help!

Unfortunately, GEICO Marine continues to change their appetite and underwriting practices (almost daily, it seems). I’m seeing more and more of these types of situations where GEICO’s decisioning makes little to no sense: your improvements to your vessel (not maintenance/deferred maintenance correction) make sense to up the insured value, especially in the current market. GEICO’s use of standardized valuation guides with little to no consideration for improvements shows that they are using a “box underwriting” approach vice looking at the risk from all aspects.

Peter

DavidM · Jun 12, 2022

Geico only understands high volume production boats usually trailerable. I don't think they even understand or insure for some of the marine specific risks like sea floor damage or fuel and oil pollution.

You are much, much better being insured by a true marine insurer like Markel or Chubb than a Geico.

David

Comodave · Jun 12, 2022

Well I had been with Boat/US for over 40 years. I originally went with them since they knew boats. But since Geico bought them that was less and less true. I stayed with them since they were the devil you knew. But when they would not raise the value on our boat for no explainable reason, it made me mad enough to look for new insurance. My wife said where can you find good insurance? I told her that I knew a guy…. Then I called Peter. Wow what a great experience, and he can talk boats.

IRENE · Jun 12, 2022

Positive Geico Experience

Timely thread!

We just bound with Geico last week. Geico has been very easy to reach and pleasant to deal with through the process.

We were in the process of obtaining quotes from 4 new-to-us insurance companies. While waiting for those to arrive, I gave Geico a call. Geico had a quote through underwriting DURING the call, which was around 30 minutes. This very fast quote was a little surprising, and the competitive price was even more surprising.

After receiving the 4 other quotes, our current policy renewal came in the mail earlier than expected. They were going up 20% with no increase in navigation area and asking for a survey completed by March of 2022 (yes 2022). We submitted a survey through our prior agent last fall, so this was also surprising.

We scrutinized all of the policies and conferred with three insurance professionals. Long story short, Geico really only had one competitor - and we went with Geico.

No affiliation, never been with them previously, just really impressed.

If Geico treats all customers like they treated us and offers similarly competitive pricing, we are all going to benefit.

Happy to share any and all details via PM.

Best Wishes

Pau Hana · Jun 12, 2022

IRENE said:
Timely thread!

We just bound with Geico last week. Geico has been very easy to reach and pleasant to deal with through the process.

We were in the process of obtaining quotes from 4 new-to-us insurance companies. While waiting for those to arrive, I gave Geico a call. Geico had a quote through underwriting DURING the call, which was around 30 minutes. This very fast quote was a little surprising, and the competitive price was even more surprising.

After receiving the 4 other quotes, our current policy renewal came in the mail earlier than expected. They were going up 20% with no increase in navigation area and asking for a survey completed by March of 2022 (yes 2022). We submitted a survey through our prior agent last fall, so this was also surprising.

We scrutinized all of the policies and conferred with three insurance professionals. Long story short, Geico really only had one competitor - and we went with Geico.

No affiliation, never been with them previously, just really impressed.

If Geico treats all customers like they treated us and offers similarly competitive pricing, we are all going to benefit.

Happy to share any and all details via PM.

Best Wishes

If the coverages are the same, and the vessel is under 20 years of age, GEICO can be very competitive. That said, pricing must be a minor consideration when looking at an insurance policy.

Things to consider about GEICO:

GEICO has a very steep depreciation schedule when the vessels hits 20 years of age.
GEICO is VERY firm on how they look at vessel valuation.
Offshore navigation is very limited.
Their appetite (what they will offer coverage on) has dramatically shrunk over the past 2 years (no steel/metal hulls, no boats over 40 years of age, no wood, etc.

They can be a good choice, but read the policy carefully.

IRENE · Jun 12, 2022

Thanks.

We have an agreed value policy, for which there is no depreciation.

Our navigation area is coastal and inland waters of the U.S. and Canada, out to 200NM. Geico said they could get us into Mexico as well, but I did not explore further as we are not going there during this policy period.

Pau Hana · Jun 12, 2022

IRENE said:
Thanks.

We have an agreed value policy, for which there is no depreciation.

Our navigation area is coastal and inland waters of the U.S. and Canada, out to 200NM. Geico said they could get us into Mexico as well, but I did not explore further as we are not going there during this policy period.

Their depreciation schedule is applied to partial losses only, and starts at 10% when the vessel is 20 years old, and increases every year by 10% to a max of 80%.

By way of contrast, no other insurer has such an aggressive depreciation schedule as a published part of their policy language.

For Mexico or the Caribbean, GEICO restricts travel there to a max of 4 months per policy term. Canada has no restrictions.

ronobrien · Jun 17, 2022

When I bought my 1973 GB36 in Nov 2020 I contacted a few insurers, Geico among them. I was only looking for liability as it was required by the yard where she would be spending few years in the hard for refit. The survey found a few areas of note that needed repair (on the list during refit). Geico would not write ANY policy based on the survey. I agree with DavidM, I don't think they want to deal with certain segments of the pleasure boat market.

Comodave · Jun 17, 2022

My understanding is that Geico will not take on any new policies on boats over 40 years old. If you are an existing customer and the boat turns 40 then they will (might) keep you.

BandB · Jun 17, 2022

Comodave said:
My understanding is that Geico will not take on any new policies on boats over 40 years old. If you are an existing customer and the boat turns 40 then they will (might) keep you.

Aha, but then they're protected by their fast depreciation schedule on older boats. Only paying 20% on partial losses on an older boat is golden for them.

Geico was very aggressive going after marine business. Now, that has turned. They want the simple, mass produced, easily understood and valued, used inland or near coastal business. However, they've decided to greatly limit exposure and that means a lot of exclusions and a lot of boats they won't now insure. They've also become unpredictable and that is tough on customers. Year to year, they may surprise you. The majority of boats they have insured are on lakes and that's the business they really appear to prefer. Hence them using the books they do for valuations. Easy to look up a Searay and do very little work. If you fit in the box, they may be good for you. But many here no longer fit in their box.

Comodave · Jun 17, 2022

BandB said:
Aha, but then they're protected by their fast depreciation schedule on older boats. Only paying 20% on partial losses on an older boat is golden for them.

Geico was very aggressive going after marine business. Now, that has turned. They want the simple, mass produced, easily understood and valued, used inland or near coastal business. However, they've decided to greatly limit exposure and that means a lot of exclusions and a lot of boats they won't now insure. They've also become unpredictable and that is tough on customers. Year to year, they may surprise you. The majority of boats they have insured are on lakes and that's the business they really appear to prefer. Hence them using the books they do for valuations. Easy to look up a Searay and do very little work. If you fit in the box, they may be good for you. But many here no longer fit in their box.

That is essentially what Peter told me.

BandB · Jun 17, 2022

Comodave said:
That is essentially what Peter told me.

Peter once understood Geico very well but now he's left trying to figure out their next move like all the rest of us.

GREGGWESTERFIELD · Jun 17, 2022

Contact information

Everyone seems to know Peter at Novamore Insurance. Except for me. Can anyone share his contact info?

BandB · Jun 17, 2022

GREGGWESTERFIELD said:
Everyone seems to know Peter at Novamore Insurance. Except for me. Can anyone share his contact info?

https://www.novamarinsurance.com/contact-us

I will add to this. As great as Peter is, the real key is finding a good marine broker who represents all the top marine lines, who you can build a relationship with, and who you can depend on to help you in the ever changing market. Peter has a great reputation. A few others have been highly recommended here. Marine Insurance is a field requiring a true specialist, not an agent who spends most of their time on home and auto and not an agent who only has access to one insurer.

Comodave · Jun 17, 2022

GREGGWESTERFIELD said:
Everyone seems to know Peter at Novamore Insurance. Except for me. Can anyone share his contact info?

His phone number, which he has posted before, is 206-350-5051

CapeWhaler · Jun 18, 2022

And another shot at Geico and their narrow, restrictive approach to marine coverage: A few months back I was looking for coverage for my 18' RothBilt center console skiff, a well known (but out of business) make around SE Mass., and called them. The rep I spoke to promptly issued a policy and emailed the binder and proof cards. A couple of weeks later I got a letter that the policy would be cancelled at the end of that month because they had determined that the boat is treated as "a kit boat and ineligable for coverage."

After a fruitless phone explanation/protest that it was not a 'kit boat' I called my local agent who's handled the Pilgrim and my sailboat for years. She said, "That's ridiculous! Rothbilts are quality boats, we know them well," and quickly got me coverage with Chubb.

Again, a myopic case where the boat simply didn't fit Geico's algorithm.
Joe

AquaDestiny · Jun 18, 2022

Holding my tongue about Insurance Companies. If I don't have anything nice to say.....If I don't have anything nice to say....If I don't have anything nice to say.....

tiltrider1 · Jun 18, 2022

As a boat owner I understand how the major insurance companies try to cookie cutter insurance for the boating industry and how it doesn’t work for me. I often find the coverages to be inappropriate in either scope or value. In the end I have always ended up with a Yacht Policy and I can see how many boat owners can get disgusted with companies like Geico and Allstate.

As an investor in BerkshireHathaway which owns Geico. I get to see the other side. It is very much an 80/20 rule. 80% of the world fits in the box and the box is profitable. The remaining 20% becomes more difficult than it is worth. Is Geico missing opportunities? Yes, but the ability to turn these opportunities into profits might not exist.

The majority of the boats on TF are actually in the 20% category for Geico. To be in the 80% you would need to be a trailerable fish or sport boat. I am more surprised by the number of individuals on TF who use Geico than by the number who find fault with Geico.

Comodave · Jun 18, 2022

AquaDestiny said:
Holding my tongue about Insurance Companies. If I don't have anything nice to say.....If I don't have anything nice to say....If I don't have anything nice to say.....

Well as I said in the beginning of the thread, I was with Boat/US( Geico) for over 40 years. I defended them when others slammed them. So now that I have realized what they do, I felt the need to speak out.

BandB · Jun 18, 2022

tiltrider1 said:
The majority of the boats on TF are actually in the 20% category for Geico. To be in the 80% you would need to be a trailerable fish or sport boat. I am more surprised by the number of individuals on TF who use Geico than by the number who find fault with Geico.

Geico was a major marine provider though. Just a few years ago they put a huge effort into yacht underwriting. Then they changed course. They stopped writing many of the policies they previously wrote which eliminates a lot of potential TF'ers. In addition, they stopped all programs with independent agents and went to only direct selling (including Boat US). At one time, most of the TF boats were not in the 20% category. I'd say less than a quarter of the boats here were outside their coverage. Now it's changed completely. Many on TF are grandfathered with them and others are being cancelled. Some are still covered only because their state has forbidden cancellation.

I do think Geico is returning more to their real mission by tightening their coverages and their selling channels. I find it interesting as Berkshire Hathaway is into so much other insurance. While I do understand much of their business, Insurance is not a part I was ever involved in and not something I've ever even discussed with Buffett. I'm sure these changes are all driven by profitability and some aspects that Geico had moved into just don't make sense on a bottom line basis. I wouldn't be surprised to see Berkshire Hathaway get into Yacht Insurance at some point through an entity other than Geico. Today, however, Marine insurers have had a lot of losses.

Bkriss56 · Sep 17, 2022

IRENE said:
Thanks.

We have an agreed value policy, for which there is no depreciation.

Our navigation area is coastal and inland waters of the U.S. and Canada, out to 200NM. Geico said they could get us into Mexico as well, but I did not explore further as we are not going there during this policy period.

Geico just gave me a quote on my 2008 Island Packet SP Cruiser. It is an agreed value for total losses, but they are now claiming on boats over 10 years old that partial losses are depreciated, 6 years from age of vessel! I pressed them questioning what would happen if I had receipts for items replaced after 2008 & was verbally told it would be 6 years after replaced.. But, when I asked for that in writing, I was told that would be available after my policy became effective! Also, I was told by 2 representatives that they could insure my boat, first for my purchase price ($230K) & after my survey showed a fair market value of $240k & replacement cost of $399k, I was told they could definitely do $330k, but my quote online was only for $202k!! I’m beginning to not believe much of what they tell me & will insist on seeing the complete policy document to know what I am paying for.

Comodave · Sep 17, 2022

Bkriss56 said:
Geico just gave me a quote on my 2008 Island Packet SP Cruiser. It is an agreed value for total losses, but they are now claiming on boats over 10 years old that partial losses are depreciated, 6 years from age of vessel! I pressed them questioning what would happen if I had receipts for items replaced after 2008 & was verbally told it would be 6 years after replaced.. But, when I asked for that in writing, I was told that would be available after my policy became effective! Also, I was told by 2 representatives that they could insure my boat, first for my purchase price ($230K) & after my survey showed a fair market value of $240k & replacement cost of $399k, I was told they could definitely do $330k, but my quote online was only for $202k!! I’m beginning to not believe much of what they tell me & will insist on seeing the complete policy document to know what I am paying for.

Check with Pau Hana here on TF. His name is Peter and he works for Nova. He got us much better insurance than we had with Geico. Geico has gone crazy lately and really seems to only want to insure small boats.

AquaDestiny · Oct 5, 2022

Does anyone have any experience with Ski Safe insurance? I had to go with them for our Mainship 40 because it was too old for Geico, too big for Progressive, and "Peter" was not able to help. They were very reasonable. However we just sold the mainship and I was toying around with getting a quote for my Trojan which is currently with Progressive, but I do not have any experience with claims or anything. I only went with them cause they were willing to cover old large trawler. Just wondering.

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