Boat buying nightmares

I’ve had a lot of frustrating experiences trying to buy a boat over the past two years (in the $400k-$600k range). I thought it might be amusing to start a thread to share stories (at least it might be cathartic commiseration for anyone else who might be in a similar situation).

Here are just a few examples of my attempts to buy a boat in the past year:

Boat #1

Saw a (new) boat at a major boat show last fall. I agreed to buy it at the asking price, but wanted something modified by either the dealer or the manufacturer. The dealer assured me it would be no problem, but couldn’t give an estimate for the cost (probably mid to high 5 figures). I was reluctant to sign an agreement without knowing at least an estimate of the cost. He promised he’d let me know within a day, and that the boat was mine.

Two weeks went by without my hearing from him. I called, texted, and emailed daily. I finally got a response saying ‘the boat’s been sold’.

Boat #2

Listing appeared on yachtworld, called the broker the next morning, asked if I could see the boat ASAP. I told him if it was as described in the listing, I’d be a buyer at the list price.

Broker whined about how the boat wasn’t convenient for him to get to, it would take him several hours and a ferry ride to get there and back, which he wasn’t willing to do (I live much farther away and was more than willing to spend the time to see it).

Broker told me he was bringing the boat to his location in about a week, and showings would start then. I asked and he agreed to call me as soon as he knew when it would be available.

Over the next several days I called, sent texts and emails asking for updates. No response to any of them. A week later he happened to pick up when I called and said, “I have 5 offers on the boat, 2 are over asking, do you want to get in on the bidding?”

Boat #3

Listing appeared on yachtworld, I called immediately, said I was interested in buying it at the asking price, cash, no financing contingency, contingent only on my visual inspection and a survey. Told the broker I was willing to send a signed agreement to that effect.

Broker told me he would only look at and consider the offer if it was accompanied by a deposit of 20% of the price, and only if sent by wire transfer. A check would not be accepted. They would only look at my offer a week after the wire transfer of the deposit had been received, and only then let me know if they accepted it.

He told me they would not respond or acknowledge my offer without a wire transfer deposit of 20% of the price. I asked why, given that I was offering their full asking price, and heard some gibberish about how ‘there’s more to an offer than the price’.

When I asked if my deposit would be refunded in full and how long it would take if they declined my offer, I heard double-talk about how ‘it’s complicated’ and they couldn’t commit to a timeframe for a refund, and insisted that any of their ‘costs’ would also need to be deducted.

Boat #4

Listing appeared, called the broker immediately and made arrangements to see the boat the next day. I sent the broker (electronically via email) a signed purchase agreement at the asking price (a basic template downloaded from BoatUS).

I went to see the boat the next morning. It was not in as good condition as I thought it would be from the listing and broker’s description, but still wanted to buy it at the asking price. The broker told me the agreement I sent was not acceptable, because it had to be on ‘their letterhead’. I asked him to send me their agreement form that I would sign and return when I got home. We shook hands on the deal.

When I got home, in my email was a note from the broker saying that someone else saw the boat that afternoon after I did and offered above the asking price, and asking if I’d like to up my bid.

Boat #5

Listing appeared, called the broker immediately and made arrangements to see the boat the next day. I offered to send a purchase agreement, and the broker told me ‘there’s no time for a contract, if you want the boat come tomorrow with a check’. The broker declined to send me their contract form, and repeatedly told me to ‘come tomorrow with a check’, that the ‘boat was beyond pristine’, it was ‘going to be gone tomorrow’ and that I would have no concerns about it.

I arrived the next morning, and in my opinion, the boat was a hot mess. I thought it needed a complete restoration even though it was less than 10 years old. To my eyes it looked like it had been severely neglected and abused. Everything needed to be completely redone, inside and out – complete new interior woodwork and upholstery, new paint, several inches of water in the bilge, multiple leaks, damage throughout.

There were some major problems that I didn’t know how they could be repaired. I called and spoke with a couple of yards and they also couldn’t advise on how to fix them. I’ve noticed it’s gone pending and then available again several times over the past six months.

Boat #6

Listing appeared on yachtworld, I called the same day. The listing had only one photo, with notes that more information was coming, and the boat would be available to be seen in two weeks time. The broker told me that the boat was not available to be shown yet, that it was planned to clean up and launch the boat, take more photos, and only then make it available for showings. I offered to send a full price purchase agreement to buy the boat, to which the broker told me they were not accepting offers unless the buyer actually sees the boat in person.

I emailed, texted, and called two days later, to ask if there was any more clarity on when the boat would be available to be seen. The next day I get an email saying the boat is under contract. I called, said I thought he said offers weren’t being accepted unless the buyer sees the boat in person. But it seems different buyers get treated differently.

Boats #7, 8, and 9

I’ve called about three different boats on yachtworld this year that did not have engine hours listed in the ads. In each case (different broker each time) I was told that they didn’t know the hours, and didn’t know if they would have time to get them before the boat sold. One broker told me he ‘doesn’t have time to answer questions’, that he’s ‘expecting very strong offers that morning’, and if I want the boat I need to send an offer within the next hour.

There are more examples, but these are some of the greatest hits.

This is on top of the ‘market’ forces of most boats being expensive, in poor condition, or often both. It’s hard for me to get excited about 20 year old boats with high hour engines likely near the end of their reliable service lives selling for more than they cost new (and not far off of what a new boat would go for), and being treated with disdain. It’s amazing how much people will pay for the immediate gratification of being about to go boating RIGHT NOW.

I appreciate the ‘market’ is ‘hot’. I get it when demand exceeds supply, prices go up. But the ‘market’ doesn’t put a gun to people’s heads and force them to act without integrity or principles, to treat people with arrogance, rudeness, and insouciance. Those are personal choices some people make. It seems the prospects of making extra money and some tawdry little bits of power turn some people into complete jerks.

The truth of a person comes out when they have a little bit of power. Sometimes it brings out the best in a person, sometimes the opposite. When someone chooses to act sleazily or like a jerk, when they do things they don’t have to but do them just because they can, it tells you a lot about them.

I’ve been looking on my own, not exclusively using a retained buyers broker. FWIW, I’ve had more than one broker offer to represent me as a buyers broker, telling me they would put in offers on 4, 5, 6 boats at a time, at above the asking price, to lock them in to give me time to see them, after which I’d decline all the other ones I wasn’t interested in, and go back and negotiate the price after survey (“a survey always finds things”). Also FWIW, I’ve also had more than one selling broker tell me they’ve heard of this practice, and again FWIW, I’ve had multiple experiences of calling about a boat, being told it’s ‘already under contract’, and then getting a call a few weeks later that the ‘deal fell through’. Maybe that’s how things are done in this market, but to me seems disingenuous.

On top of all this are limited inventory, and timing pressures to get everything done FAST. When I’ve tried to go down the road and rush to try to buy a boat, in some of the above situations I was told I had 14 days from first offer to closing and if I couldn’t get surveys and other things done in that time, too bad.

As much as I’d like to be out on the water today, all this nonsense just sucks the fun out of it for me. I just can’t do it. I don’t want to be given the bum’s rush and hurried into buying something for a crazy price before I even know what I’d be getting. I just can’t happily bend over, grab my ankles, and pay an insane price, leaving me with the first memory of the boat being that I let myself get ripped off. Every time I looked at it I would feel like a sucker.

The past couple of months, when I’ve seen new boat listings come up on yachtworld, I haven’t even bothered to call about them anymore. I know how it’s likely to go, and I’m done with that. I’ve instead signed an agreement to buy a new boat, which was an infinitely more pleasant process (more on that later).

How about anyone else? Any amusing experiences to share (or commiserate)?

That all sounds pretty crummy. OTOH, if I thought about getting out of boating, NOW is the time.

Nick, thank you for sharing. I am not nearly as far along as you are in the boat buying process, but your scenarios have been enlightening to say the least. Several of them remind me of the housing market (at least in certain areas!). I didn't realize how competitive it is out there in the mid-high six figure boat buying range! Or maybe you just have really crappy luck getting people to take your money

It perplexes me why there are several boats on Yachtworld that I keep an eye on that have been there for many months or even years and still haven't sold (or been updated as sold), even after several price reductions.

Kirkos said:

It perplexes me why there are several boats on Yachtworld that I keep an eye on that have been there for many months or even years and still haven't sold (or been updated as sold), even after several price reductions.

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I would guess one quick look and sniff in the engine room would tell you all you need to know.

Nick, thanks for baring and sharing. Wow! Quite a saga. I hope the new boat turns up and not after an unforgivably long time after promised delivery date, and your surveyor does not find too much wrong with it that must be fixed prior to you making the final payment.

Having said all that, it does sound like it is a better option than buying a used boat in a rampaging sellers market. If your yards are anything like as busy as the ones here, you will also be far better off buying new than trying to: 1. get a booking to get work done and 2. have that work done at reasonable prices.

Of course delivery slots for new builds have been pushed out a longways also. To the point that some local buyers are placing their orders and then buying something for +/- $0.5m (or more) that floats to use while they wait for their new boat. Pretty crazy time really.......

But here are commiserations of a sort....
For me, I bought in the US 10 years ago when currencies were favourable for me. Boat was considered to be "in decent condition" by broker, surveyor and myself. I did a major refit in Port Townsend that meant "you wont need to spend anything for 20 years". Right. Well, almost.

But nothing done in PT has needed any additional work. All I've needed to do is address a few things not done in PT, plus routine R&M for wear & tear and some optional upgrades as a few items died of old age more than anything else. After refit I cruised a shortish season in BC and then shipped back to Australia.

So now halfway through the "20 year wont need to do anything" period the boat is in pretty good shape. Pocketbook, not so much! I'll keep it for at least 5 years (knees permitting) and then sell at market price for far less than I've spent. Oh well, the lifestyle has been fabulous.....

Greetings,
Happened to us this past spring. Found a "new" boat to replace our beloved 46' Cheoy Lee LRC.

"New" boat was kept on a covered lift behind owner's house. NO sun damage and clean hull. Made an offer-accepted. Survey (hull and engines), sea trial.
Went back home quite excited. Got a call from our buying broker:


Somebody pushed the wrong button on the lift and crushed the boat against the roof.


How bizarre is that?

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Happened to us this past spring. Found a "new" boat to replace our beloved 46' Cheoy Lee LRC.

"New" boat was kept on a covered lift behind owner's house. NO sun damage and clean hull. Made an offer-accepted. Survey (hull and engines), sea trial.
Went back home quite excited. Got a call from our buying broker:


Somebody pushed the wrong button on the lift and crushed the boat against the roof.


How bizarre is that?

Click to expand...

Or they had a higher offer and wanted to get you out of the way…

Greetings,
Mr. C. Nope. Saw the pictures. Crushed. Not completely flat but damaged enough to suggest significant structural damages. I am assuming the owner was dealing in good faith. I don't suspect any tom-foolery.

Back in 2016 I was looking to buy another boat and found a 50 Ocean Alexander (extended to 55') that I had always wanted. Made a appointment to see it and offered to buy it at $30,000 less than the asking price ( different market back then).

The broker wasn't real happy about it but said he would present the offer. He called me back later and said the offer had been refused. Fine, I will keep looking. He calls me again and says he has another 55 for sale and we should go see it. It was available for showing the next day and he could not make it, but he would make arrangements for the owner to show it, so off we went.

We thanked the owner for showing the boat and said we will be in contact. Later that night we get a call from the owner who was extremely upset. Turns out he really did not want to sell the boat and his wife had been crying all day. The broker had talked him into selling it. I said that was fine, we will pass on the boat.

But it get's worse. I found out later the broker did not present the offer on the first boat. And when I asked to get my deposit back it took several weeks and several phone calls ( the check is in the mail) to get.

I was a boat broker based in Annapolis for almost a year. Never, ever saw anything like what you experienced. It must be a wild market out there right now.

David

Sorry to hear of the frustration but you have certainly gained a valuable perspective, thank you for sharing that perspective with us. I don't have any experience shopping in your price range but I suspect that working with a buyer's broker may cut through some of these shenanigans. It seems like some of these brokers would rather deal with dewy eyed first time boat shoppers who are seemingly driving up the market demand and lacking in experience to tell the difference between an cream puff and a floating nightmare.



Have you joined the owners clubs or forums associated with any of these makes/models and posted a boat wanted ad? It seems like you are very aware of what you want and these brokers aren't brining any value to the table, might as well find a pre-market boat and pursue a direct sale (I imagine sure you've already been trying this).


Best of luck

My unsolicited advise,

1) Submit an offer with a deposit and contingencies (subject to survey and seatrial). People are making offers sight un-seen. You're calling to book appointments. It's not the broker you should be frustrated with, it's the other buyers.

2) Stop asking 'tire kicker' questions (e.g. 'engine hours'). There is time for that during survey. You are sending up a red flag to the broker.

3) The only question to ask is 'who is holding the deposit in escrow'. You'll get your money back provided the
P&S contingencies are not met. Don't bother asking about 'When will I get the deposit back'? The broker isn't the escrow/title agency and can't answer this question. Again, (no offense) but you're sending up red flags.

4) Yes, wire transfers, because checks can bounce. Purchase and Sale agreements are not sent without a 'good faith' deposit. 10% is standard. When bidding wars occur, deposit mini's can be higher. Your (albeit mild) resistance to wires and deposits and sending up red flags to the broker.

5) I would avoid negotiating changes and customizations. Buy the boat, then higher someone to implement the changes. If you were selling a car, would you sell to the guy that wants to buy it 'as is' or the guy wants to pay you to upgrade the stereo before he gives you a purchase and sale agreement
??

The Purchase and Sale is king. The guy on the phone promising to buy if he likes what he sees is just one of a conga line of people scrambling to buy the boat. Picture yourself behind the brokers desk with a line of 20 people out the door all trying to buy one boat. There is only 8 hrs in a work day. IF you worked with no lunch that would give you 24 minutes per person. Who are you going to focus time with? The guy with a completed P&S, wire? Or the guy asking about engine hours, and why a wire and when am I getting my money back??

Shrew said:

2) Stop asking 'tire kicker' questions (e.g. 'engine hours'). There is time for that during survey. You are sending up a red flag to the broker.

3) Don't bother asking about 'When will I get the deposit back'? Again, (no offense) but you're sending up red flags.

4) Your (albeit mild) resistance to wires and deposits and sending up red flags to the broker.

The guy on the phone promising to buy if he likes what he sees is just one of a conga line of people scrambling to buy the boat. Picture yourself behind the brokers desk with a line of 20 people out the door all trying to buy one boat.

Click to expand...

It's reasons such as these that I gave up on trying to buy a used boat and signed an agreement for a new build. If asking the engine hours is a 'tire kicker' question on a half-million dollar boat, then I'm not in the market. I wouldn't buy a used car without asking how many miles it has. Why would I spend 10 times more on a boat and not know? If a boat has 1000 hours I'm interested; if it has 5000 I'd like to know up front so I don't waste my or anyone else's time with an offer, deposit, survey, etc. It's a simple question, and if a broker considers it a 'tire kicker' question, then they may be looking for the kind of naive sucker @Gdavid mentioned who'll fork over their money for anything. That's not me. I worked too hard for my money.

I have nothing against wire transfers, and ask for them myself as a seller. Maybe I'm too demanding, but if someone is requiring that I wire them over $100,000 just for them look at my offer and let me know if they'll consider it, then I would like to know how and when I'll get my money back if they say no. If it's a 'red flag' to someone that I'd like that stated in the agreement, I'm not willing to risk $100,000.

We're all victims of our own past experiences. One of mine was several years ago, I sent a deposit along with an offer on a boat. The offer was declined, and it took me many months, and the involvement of an attorney, to get my deposit back. $100,000 isn't pocket change to me.

My take on current brokerage market conditions is that greed and megalomania are too much at play. If the preferred buyer is a naive rube who won't ask such annoying questions as engine hours or terms for refund of a six-figure deposit, then I'm not a player in that game.

Part of my own baggage is that I've owned 13 boats over 52 years, and have never been subjected to this kind of rudeness, arrogance, and disrespect. I may be hopelessly old school, but I don't think it's too much to expect professionalism and simply civility, which I strive to always give in all my dealings. There is a list of brokers I will never work with again based on these recent experiences. These market conditions will not remain this way forever, and I will remember those who acted decently, and those who didn't.

Gdavid said:

Sorry to hear of the frustration but you have certainly gained a valuable perspective, thank you for sharing that perspective with us. I don't have any experience shopping in your price range but I suspect that working with a buyer's broker may cut through some of these shenanigans. It seems like some of these brokers would rather deal with dewy eyed first time boat shoppers who are seemingly driving up the market demand and lacking in experience to tell the difference between an cream puff and a floating nightmare.

Have you joined the owners clubs or forums associated with any of these makes/models and posted a boat wanted ad? It seems like you are very aware of what you want and these brokers aren't brining any value to the table, might as well find a pre-market boat and pursue a direct sale (I imagine sure you've already been trying this).

Best of luck

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Thank you Gdavid. I think you are absolutely right in your comment about a preference for 'dewy eyed first time boat shoppers' (and an honest, forthright broker as much as admitted that to me, commenting on how some of his peers much prefer to sell to the naive who don't ask questions rather than experienced boaters who take more time).

I did join several owner's forums looking for boats there, and pursued a couple. Supply there was very limited as well. I only found two boats of possible interest through owner's forums. While it cut out the middleman and eliminated dealing with a broker, in both cases the sellers had dollar signs in their eyes and were set on prices I thought were too high (though in this market, they may well get them).

Insequent said:

Nick, thanks for baring and sharing. Wow! Quite a saga. I hope the new boat turns up and not after an unforgivably long time after promised delivery date, and your surveyor does not find too much wrong with it that must be fixed prior to you making the final payment.

Having said all that, it does sound like it is a better option than buying a used boat in a rampaging sellers market. If your yards are anything like as busy as the ones here, you will also be far better off buying new than trying to: 1. get a booking to get work done and 2. have that work done at reasonable prices.

Pretty crazy time really.......

But here are commiserations of a sort....

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Thank you Insequent. I looked at a few project boats that needed significant work but had good 'bones', and found exactly what you said. Finding a yard willing to do the work sometime before the end of my life, and at a price less than the country's gross national debt, was hard. Most yards I called were unwilling to even take on or schedule new major projects, and suggested I call back after next year (and their ballpark price guesstimates for the work were staggering compared to prices just a couple of years ago).

You're spot-on about potential construction time delays with a new build, and possible problems before taking delivery. For me much of it came down to time. At my age and the deteriorating health that comes with aging, the remaining time for boating is limited. I've been looking at used boats for over 2 years (started just about when the pandemic hit - talk about great timing!). Used boat market conditions could change at any time, especially if the increasingly predicted recession and economic downturn happens later this year. Or not. Waiting a year for a new boat is frustrating (and a significant fraction of my likely remaining boating time), but I decided it was better than beating my head against the wall for another two years and maybe ending up in the same place I'm in now.

There were other major advantages to a new build as well. The price of the new boat is only about 20-25% more than some of the 15-20 year old used boats I've been looking at that had thousands of engine hours (reflecting the incredible price premium buyers are apparently willing to pay for immediate gratification). Plus the builder is accommodating several requests for changes in the build.

The best reason of all is no longer having to put up with the frustrating shenanigans and soul-sucking nonsense of the brokerage market right now. At this age and point in life, my highest priority is to minimize frustrations and aggravations. I had more than enough of them in my career, which resulted only in high blood pressure and other health issues.

Boating is supposed to be fun, including the search process. At this point in life, if it isn't fun, why do it?

Sic transit gloria mundi.

This discussion reminds me of a four hour round-trip drive I made from my Dad's in Stuart, FL to a marina in Titusville to look at a boat. The photo gallery showed the boat was pristine, spotless bilge, navy blue hull was polished to such a high shine you could see a reflection of the photographer in the hull photo (and I'm a sucker for a navy blue hull). $165,000 asking price as I recall. When I got there -- well, just to give you a general idea of the boat as a whole, the windshield glass was all gone and there were birds' nests on the helm dashboards. Didn't bother to go to the broker's office, I just got back in the car and drove home.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Happened to us this past spring. Found a "new" boat to replace our beloved 46' Cheoy Lee LRC.

"New" boat was kept on a covered lift behind owner's house. NO sun damage and clean hull. Made an offer-accepted. Survey (hull and engines), sea trial.
Went back home quite excited. Got a call from our buying broker:


Somebody pushed the wrong button on the lift and crushed the boat against the roof.


How bizarre is that?

Click to expand...

As you can see, I must be careful to avoid such an event, even though there is a relatively new optional (why it was optional in the first place puzzles me to no end) limit switch for both up and down. Nevertheless, I stand by with my finger on the stop button of the remote as the lift nears the upper limit because there is only six inches of clearnance between boat and roof up there. The circuit breaker is right in front of me as well. Seven years and still doing ok, but ya never know....

Nick14 said:

It's reasons such as these that I gave up on trying to buy a used boat and signed an agreement for a new build. If asking the engine hours is a 'tire kicker' question on a half-million dollar boat, then I'm not in the market. I wouldn't buy a used car without asking how many miles it has. Why would I spend 10 times more on a boat and not know? If a boat has 1000 hours I'm interested; if it has 5000 I'd like to know up front so I don't waste my or anyone else's time with an offer, deposit, survey, etc. It's a simple question, and if a broker considers it a 'tire kicker' question, then they may be looking for the kind of naive sucker @Gdavid mentioned who'll fork over their money for anything. That's not me. I worked too hard for my money.



I have nothing against wire transfers, and ask for them myself as a seller. Maybe I'm too demanding, but if someone is requiring that I wire them over $100,000 just for them look at my offer and let me know if they'll consider it, then I would like to know how and when I'll get my money back if they say no. If it's a 'red flag' to someone that I'd like that stated in the agreement, I'm not willing to risk $100,000.



We're all victims of our own past experiences. One of mine was several years ago, I sent a deposit along with an offer on a boat. The offer was declined, and it took me many months, and the involvement of an attorney, to get my deposit back. $100,000 isn't pocket change to me.



My take on current brokerage market conditions is that greed and megalomania are too much at play. If the preferred buyer is a naive rube who won't ask such annoying questions as engine hours or terms for refund of a six-figure deposit, then I'm not a player in that game.



Part of my own baggage is that I've owned 13 boats over 52 years, and have never been subjected to this kind of rudeness, arrogance, and disrespect. I may be hopelessly old school, but I don't think it's too much to expect professionalism and simply civility, which I strive to always give in all my dealings. There is a list of brokers I will never work with again based on these recent experiences. These market conditions will not remain this way forever, and I will remember those who acted decently, and those who didn't.

Click to expand...

I agree with you completely.

If your actions are a red flag to a broker, it’s only because you are signally that you are not a simple, contingency-free, no questions asked buyer, I.e. a sucker.

And I see nothing but red flags being broadcast by the brokers. A market like this allows the scum to come out of their holes and shine for a little while.

Wow, I consider myself lucky or things just went well for us the first time.

We were the dewy eyed first time buyers. Well first time for a brokered boat that is. I've had a lot of used outboards in my time but this was the first "big boat"

We looked at a half dozen or so and we learned about the whole offer, survey and sea trial, deposits, wires, title transfer and documentation process. I found that it's just like buying a house -

Anyway, the boat deal went through little drama. No deposit was requested. The broker explained the process and showed us the surveys less than 2 years old. He had sold the boat before. I got a grand off the price because both toilets were non functional as compared to only one before. Paid for a general (out the water) survey and just accepted the mechanical survey two years old.

Wired the funds to close the deal and we are good to go.

twistedtree said:

I agree with you completely.

If your actions are a red flag to a broker, it’s only because you are signally that you are not a simple, contingency-free, no questions asked buyer, I.e. a sucker.

And I see nothing but red flags being broadcast by the brokers. A market like this allows the scum to come out of their holes and shine for a little while.

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Thank you twistedtree. You're absolutely right. A market like this lowers the standards. People get away with things because they can.

You're right again in that those kinds of actions are red flags from brokers to buyers. It's telling me that to buy a boat from them in this market, a buyer has to be less careful, to throw caution to the wind, and be willing to lose a lot of money. It tells me that sellers want a buyer to be naive or a sucker.

That benefits a seller and broker, but to the detriment of a buyer. I'm not that kind of buyer who has money to burn.

Yep, we all remember the aggravating and frustrating experiences, but sometimes it goes easy too. Our current boat was like that. Private party. We shook hands, I wrote him a personal check for the whole thing (five figures) and we signed the bill of sale. Couldn't have been simpler and easier, but then we got lucky that the seller was a great guy.

kthoennes said:

This discussion reminds me of a four hour round-trip drive I made from my Dad's in Stuart, FL to a marina in Titusville to look at a boat. The photo gallery showed the boat was pristine, spotless bilge, navy blue hull was polished to such a high shine you could see a reflection of the photographer in the hull photo (and I'm a sucker for a navy blue hull). $165,000 asking price as I recall. When I got there -- well, just to give you a general idea of the boat as a whole, the windshield glass was all gone and there were birds' nests on the helm dashboards. Didn't bother to go to the broker's office, I just got back in the car and drove home.

Click to expand...

Been there, done that, multiple times over the past two years. Except my round-trips were sometimes 15-20 hours of driving.

It's amazing, the difference between how a boat looks in little internet photos on a screen, and the actuality in real life.

Imagine how much more time and money you would have wasted if you had gone ahead and made a sight unseen offer on that boat, and waited until the survey to find out it was what it actually was.

It's a standard seller's ploy to pull a buyer in, get them to invest time, money, and emotional involvement with something, because it makes them more likely to buy it farther along even if problems come up. It's human nature. We're less likely to walk away from something after we've put time, money, and feelings into it. Car salespeople do it all the time, which is why they drag out what should be a 15 minute buying process into hours.

With a boat the stakes for a buyer are much higher because the costs are so much greater. Sellers and brokers know this, which is another reason I suspect they want to pull buyers in immediately with sight-unseen offers and deposits.

I would rather respect everyone's time and not waste anyone's time (including my own). Time is the most precious thing in life, because you can never get more of it, no matter how much money you might have. I'd rather spend 5 minutes asking and having answered a few questions rather than having to send a contract and deposit for any boat you might be interested in.

You did it the best way of all, the old-school traditional way I've bought every boat prior to this before. Actually seeing it before deciding whether or not to move forward. What a concept. Seeing something before you decide if you want to buy it. It's incredible that this is now a 'red flag' to some.

Well our P & S went well all the way around. Experienced and ethical broker and great sellers. Agreed on price and paid out deposit within a week.

Then the fun started. Out of water survey showed 2 things -

1) burned up inverter which actually happened real time in front of us as surveyor and ourselves were chatting in the ER...never saw 3 adults move so fast in your life!

2) High moisture reading in hull directly beneath the fiberglass built in fuel tank.

So the repairs were ordered as the broker explained to the sellers that nobody will buy the boat without fixing these issues.

Yard jumps in and quickly repairs the inverter. The fiberglass repair, however, for whatever reason, was delayed 2 months. They apologized profusely and began work. Then the fiberglass guy blows out his knee. More delays. Repair was eventually finished without concern as the moisture was the result of poor repair in the past.

So in she goes for an engine survey and sea trial. Discover a wobbly shaft. Out she comes and the shaft was taken and straightened (props trued up etc) and put back in thinking that took care of the wobble. Finally get the boat back in water and conduct a shaft sea-trial. Wobble not gone. Out she goes and shaft is pulled again and straightened again and again but it would not hold. Turns out there was a barely noticeable crack in it and needs to be replaced. Why the crack was not found earlier is still a head-scratcher. Prop and shaft shop very well regarded. New shaft had to be ordered. Owner was not happy to be paying out more $$s but he had no choice. 30 days later it arrives. Installed and sea trialed again. Finally done.

So 8 months after P & S was signed we finally closed. 30+ year experienced broker said it was his longest close ever. He was great, owners stepped up and except for the initial glass repair delay, the yard really stepped up on many levels.

Mind you as all this is going on, we sold the house so quickly, that much of this delay was spent living with my Mother-in-Law who, as we, expected a 30 day transition. Not 6 months. She was very understanding as well.

Kind of a nightmare, with no real culprit. Stuff happens.

And some say ordering a new build takes too long.

Sorry for your travails, but impressed that you used insouciance!

Moonfish said:

Sorry for your travails, but impressed that you used insouciance!

Click to expand...

:lol:

Just livin' large!

FWT said:

And some say ordering a new build takes too long.

Click to expand...

Initially, I thought so too. But after wasting over 2 years beating my head against the wall trying to buy a used boat, a year long wait for a new one seems faster in comparison (and with fewer aggravations).

Apologies for your negative experiences. Makes me feel very lucky for my buying experience.

This was exactly one year ago.

For us, a buyers broker made all the difference. Where we live is an isolated market related to the type of boat I wanted. “Single engine diesel trawler style boat, freshwater only” is pretty much unobtainium around here. Even when I called regional brokers around the Great Lakes mostly the response was “you’ll never find it” and they had no interest in helping me look.

Having no experience buying a boat far away, finding a broker who would help me not be stupid, and draw up a good contract was key for us. I actually stumbled on the boat, a well maintained 2001 Mainship 390. Popped up on YachtWorld, sent him after it.

We had a great experience, but much of it was because of a kind seller, their honest broker, and our broker all working out a fair deal. It was a desirable boat, timing was in my favor, my full priced offer was accepted. There were issues, but all were minimal, $1500 worth of pumps that we all fought to pay for. I had assumed I’d be paying for some of this. The seller too. We ended up splitting it.

The seller was the wife of the owner that had just passed away as we made an offer. This guy loved his boat. We tried to be as fair and as patient as possible, like I’d want someone to be to my wife if she was in a similar position.

I really think that what made the deal work. All parties trying to be decent humans to each other. It’s what is missing in a lot of things in life.

I like a good deal as much as anyone. I’ve got friends that make fun of me for giving stuff away…as in not asking enough. For me it’s all about being fair and decent, not wasting a lot of time to get that extra $100.

Someone before said it…time is key. Now that I’m older, starting to get it.

Best of luck on your new build if you decide to go that way!

I think an important take-away from this discussion is that any prospective buyer needs to step back and decide whether this is a market they want to participate in at the moment. For many, including the OP, the best decision is to step away and do something else for a while rather than try to buy a boat. Or go down the path of buying a new boat.

Hi Nick, I think you are being thoughtful and making good decisions rather than getting emotional about buying a boat. The boating market should cool down soon. A good thread, especially for other people considering buying their first boat who may think this is normal.