Shortest trawler with a walk-around queen AND a pilothouse?

Trying to narrow the to-be-purchased boat scope with some simple requirements. A boat for us will have a walk-around queen (better yet, king) bed, and I prefer the idea of a pilothouse. We have other requirements, but boats that have these things will likely have the others.

I'm curious about the shortest boat that fits these criteria. I don't know that we want the shortest boat possible (I suspect we'll end up with something 40 feet or longer), but it's a place to start.

That's a pretty easy set of wants to fill. For new yachts the Helman 38E has a walkaround queen and pilot house (as do the larger ones). In the used market the Nordic Tug 37 (now NT40) fits those requirements as do American Tugs. Krogan used to make a 38 However there are many such options, the walk around queen became common in boats made starting in the 80's. I am not aware of any king sized though.

My boat has a walkaround king at 38 feet, but no pilothouse (although if you put some work into enclosing the helm area it would be pretty darn close to an aft raised pilothouse). It's not really a trawler though, and unfortunately very few were built with diesels.

Slowmo said:

That's a pretty easy set of wants to fill. For new yachts the Helman 38E has a walkaround queen and pilot house (as do the larger ones). In the used market the Nordic Tug 37 (now NT40) fits those requirements as do American Tugs. Krogan used to make a 38 However there are many such options, the walk around queen became common in boats made starting in the 80's. I am not aware of any king sized though.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I figured I was casting my net pretty wide. Other 'ideas' that haven't firmed themselves into requirements yet are: single screw with bowthruster; stabilizers; u-shaped galley; guest stateroom with double berth; and the real kicker, sufficient range and capability to cross the Atlantic one day.

What is your budget? Take a look at the Cape Horn for sale on Lake Union. It might be bigger then you want, but it has a bow thruster and a Thrustmaster prop system-It's like a pod that can rotate 360 degress, which gives you amazing control, so the added length is not a disadvantage. Very capable ice rated hull. Pretty sure it has all your looking for plus a king sized bed. It did have stabilizers, but they were removed because the boat was so stable and they slowed the boat down about 1 knot.

Mac2 said:

Take a look at the Cape Horn for sale on Lake Union.

Click to expand...

Link?

It's in Yachtworld and for sale at Chuck Hovey Yachts (no affiliation).

A bit out of my price range, but a damn-near perfect boat. For that kind of money, I think I'd pursue the 65' Florida Bay Coaster "Red Head" ($850K), but this one is a strong contender.

We don't have a clearly-established budget yet (far too much to do before buying a boat, and those things will change our budget), but we're kind of aiming in the $200-300K range. Just developing ideas for now.

JD Ray said:

We don't have a clearly-established budget yet (far too much to do before buying a boat, and those things will change our budget), but we're kind of aiming in the $200-300K range. Just developing ideas for now.

Click to expand...

That budget along with being able to cross the Atlantic will be a challenge. I'm thinking an older Krogen 42 would be worth a look.

Mac2 said:

That budget along with being able to cross the Atlantic will be a challenge. I'm thinking an older Krogen 42 would be worth a look.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I expected those two were mutually-exclusive. I’ll check out the Kroger 42.

JD Ray said:

Yeah, I expected those two were mutually-exclusive. I’ll check out the Kroger 42.

Click to expand...

Unless it's a bigger boat/budget, any boat you look at will need fuel bladders for the crossing. Not a big deal, but something to consider.

Queen-sized bed: If you are truly looking for a Q bed, make sure you take your tape measure with you. I have no idea why, but somewhere in the brokerage world they started messin' around with bed sizes. I don't think you should be surprised if your "queen" turns out to be a double measurement-wise. Or your King turns out to be a Queen. I understand cabin shapes might require adjustment sizes, but I think it is common to see the boat bed sizes "mis-labeled." Hey, maybe with the new politically correct/woke monikers, we can come up with new names.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Judy at JWY said:

Queen-sized bed: If you are truly looking for a Q bed, make sure you take your tape measure with you. I have no idea why, but somewhere in the brokerage world they started messin' around with bed sizes. I don't think you should be surprised if your "queen" turns out to be a double measurement-wise. Or your King turns out to be a Queen. I understand cabin shapes might require adjustment sizes, but I think it is common to see the boat bed sizes "mis-labeled." Hey, maybe with the new politically correct/woke monikers, we can come up with new names.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Sometimes the bunks end up a bit funky shaped to fit the cabin better. And they often measure based on the widest part. So a "queen" may be a queen in one area, but only a full down by your feet, for example.

Mac2 said:

Unless it's a bigger boat/budget, any boat you look at will need fuel bladders for the crossing. Not a big deal, but something to consider.

Click to expand...

Definitely have considered that. Seems silly to spec huge tankage for a boat that will rarely use the capacity. If 99% of the time you're staying within 200 nm of a fuel dock, no need for 2000 gallons of fuel. Until you want to cross an ocean.

Any idea what the Krogen 42 consumes at its 7 kt cruise speed (gal/hr)?

Judy at JWY said:

Queen-sized bed: If you are truly looking for a Q bed, make sure you take your tape measure with you.

Click to expand...

Yeah, we're using "walk-around queen" in the same way the salespeople do: bed big enough for two adults that you can get into from either side. We have a king-sized bed at home, but sleep relatively comfortably in a residential queen bed. We had an RV, which has its own version of a queen, and that was fine. I'm 6'1" and my wife is 5'5" (though she takes up as much if not more space as I do when she sleeps; don't tell her I said so). We both get up at night a lot, and climbing over the other is something we need to avoid. Also concerned about good quality sleep during watch shifts (or off-shifts, actually).

JD Ray said:

Definitely have considered that. Seems silly to spec huge tankage for a boat that will rarely use the capacity. If 99% of the time you're staying within 200 nm of a fuel dock, no need for 2000 gallons of fuel. Until you want to cross an ocean.

Any idea what the Krogen 42 consumes at its 7 kt cruise speed (gal/hr)?

Click to expand...

My Krogen 36 burned about 1.5 gal/hour. I'm thinking the 42 will burn 2-3 gal/hr at 7 knots. There are a lot of people on this forum that own the 42, hopefully they chime in. At 42 feet, your going to have a hard time finding a more seaworthy yacht with your requirements, along with a big inventory (comparatively speaking) to choose from.

Mac2 said:

My Krogen 36 burned about 1.5 gal/hour. I'm thinking the 42 will burn 2-3 gal/hr at 7 knots. There are a lot of people on this forum that own the 42, hopefully they chime in. At 42 feet, your going to have a hard time finding a more seaworthy yacht with your requirements, along with a big inventory (comparatively speaking) to choose from.

Click to expand...

700 gallons of fuel. With a 10% reserve (is that sufficient?), so 630 gallons usable, at 3 gph and 7 kts, that's 1470 nm. That's not exactly HUGE range, but it's plenty for 99% of use cases.

Good point on the beds Judy. A lot of boats have the main bed that is sized properly at the head area, but narrow at the feet. I've been meaning to take an electric knife to my memory foam mattress because of this, but I've kind of got used to it at this point. The price of a fitted mattress is ridiculous, so I opted for the top notch household mattress instead.

JD Ray said:

700 gallons of fuel. With a 10% reserve (is that sufficient?), so 630 gallons usable, at 3 gph and 7 kts, that's 1470 nm. That's not exactly HUGE range, but it's plenty for 99% of use cases.

Click to expand...

Not to mention the ride will be one of the best. The Krogen hull shape is amazing. They excel in following seas compared to the majority of boats in the 42 foot range. The Nordhavn 46 should be considered as well, but I doubt you'll find one in your price range.

If I remember from when Wxx3 did his Atlantic crossing on Dauntless (Krogen 42) he burned less than 2 gal/hr on average (although I think he averaged less than 7 kts). I'm almost positive he made the crossing both directions without carrying extra fuel (I know he stopped in the Azores, not a non-stop crossing).

As far as fuel reserve, I think I'd want to plan no less than a 25% reserve in most cases.

rslifkin said:

If I remember from when Wxx3 did his Atlantic crossing on Dauntless (Krogen 42) he burned less than 2 gal/hr on average (although I think he averaged less than 7 kts). I'm almost positive he made the crossing both directions without carrying extra fuel (I know he stopped in the Azores, not a non-stop crossing).

Click to expand...

Good info, thanks.

As far as fuel reserve, I think I'd want to plan no less than a 25% reserve in most cases.

Click to expand...

Thanks again.

With a 25% fuel reserve on a 700 gallon tank, that’s 525 gallons usable. At 2 gph, 6 kts, that’s under 1600 miles, which isn’t enough to make the crossing. IIRC, it’s somewhere just under 1800 miles for the shortest leg, but that’s from me clicking around on a map, not actual knowledge.

To the original poster (OP): everyone has and is entitled to their opinion but I think a common approach shared by many is to buy the boat that best fits your 99% use case. Otherwise you will likely dramatically over inflate the cost and possibly also introduce other compromises just to fill that extreme "someday I'd like too...list. example here of crossing the Atlantic. If you can get everything but that capability for x dollars you might need to spend 1.5x or more to get that capability and even so you might give up something (example less than 19 foot height needed for the great loop). The solution could be if you don't have the budget buy the "almost perfect boat" and if someday you really do want to cross the pacific pay to ship it.

Just offering another approach for your consideration. Happy hunting!

READY said:

…buy the boat that best fits your 99% use case.

Click to expand...

Oh, yes, that’s my goal. I’d even be happy with 80%. As I said, I’m slowly developing a list of actual requirements, and along the way tacking on a list of “wants” and “nice to haves” and “in a perfect boat” items. We’ll buy with the short list of requirements and hope the boat comes with the others.

A queen size (real 60x80) was one of my must haves. Standard bedding, because I'm going to toss it before even sleeping on it. And standard bedding is much cheaper and more comfortable than having custom stuff made.

Agree with a few other posts here that the Kadey Krogen 42 and the Nordhavn 46 meet many of your requirements and budget. Keep in mind there are very few KK42s out there with a midship queen. Most have a Pullman style (one person is climbing over the other) in a forward stateroom with the office/bunk cabinet at midship.

My experience in looking at many examples of these exact models two years ago is that $300K will get you a newer, top notch KK42 that’s kitted out and ready to go. The same budget will get you an N46 that needs love.

Regarding fuel burn there are a lot of KK42 owners here and elsewhere they can report actuals. Our Kadey Krogen 54 with a single CAT 3208 burns 2.5 GPH making 7.5 to 8 knots. Long crossings would be done closer to 6.5 knots. Most KK42s have a Ford Lehman 135 which has a lot of documented performance numbers.

JD Ray said:

With a 25% fuel reserve on a 700 gallon tank, that’s 525 gallons usable. At 2 gph, 6 kts, that’s under 1600 miles, which isn’t enough to make the crossing. IIRC, it’s somewhere just under 1800 miles for the shortest leg, but that’s from me clicking around on a map, not actual knowledge.

Click to expand...

Except Richard on Dauntless did make it to the Azores, and back.

Fuel burn is closer ro 1.5 gal/hr at 6.8kts for us. It can go up or down considerably if changing RPM. Paravanes in the water can cause a loss of .3 to .7knts depending on how hard they are working.

JD, the AT34 (old style measuring) with a WWL of 32. fulfill your requirements. It is short, a bit beamy, no side walk around decks. 400gal of fuel. With careful speed and fuel management you should get over 1500 miles. But it does satisfy your other requirements AND no outside teak!!!
Good luck finding one