Plane Crash on Bridge

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
HopCar

HopCar

Guru
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
5,308
Vessel Name
Possum
Vessel Make
Ellis 28
A Cessna 172 tried to land on the Haulover Inlet bridge in Miami. It hit a car and burned. This appears to be drone video from right after the crash. The fire hadn’t started when the video started.
 
Wow, those two made it out just in time. Hope they were the only ones n there.
 
Haulover just can catch a break.

One dead in the plane.

update:
 
Last edited:
Oh ****, all that water and they, if alive might have burned alive. Saw that on Katherines report. Monday morning quarterbacking, but even though it has fixed gear still would have thought of the water. Stall just before touchdown, down, probably flip, but would not burn alive. Just horrible.

Kathryn's Report: Cessna 172H Skyhawk, N8845Z: Fatal accident occurred May 14, 2022 in Miami-Dade County, Florida

“Flying that plane really low, about 500 feet,” said witness Phil Gillen.

People kept an eye on the plane as it circled lower and lower.

“I just happened to look over, and just then, there was a giant ball of fire, and a tremendous amount of smoke,” said Staffon.

A witness on the bridge captured people running toward the wreckage to help.

“It was pretty much totally engulfed. I mean, you could feel the heat from maybe 30 yards away,” said witness Tony Selvaggio.
 

Attachments

  • KathrynsReport-2.jpg
    KathrynsReport-2.jpg
    60.6 KB · Views: 37
  • KathrynsReport.jpg
    KathrynsReport.jpg
    100.4 KB · Views: 34
Adopo said:
Oh ****, all that water and they, if alive might have burned alive. Saw that on Katherines report. Monday morning quarterbacking, but even though it has fixed gear still would have thought of the water. Stall just before touchdown, down, probably flip, but would not burn alive. Just horrible.


Too many people are too worried about saving the plane, so go for a less desirable landing area rather than ditch in the water. Screw the aircraft, once it broke, my contract to return the plane undamaged just ended, and my contract with my wife to come home safe took over. The plane can be replaced. . . .

Sorry there was a loss of life. Sad
Click to expand...
 
Since we’re second guessing, here is a Google Earth view of the area. It’s pretty common for small planes to fly the coast just offshore below 1000’ to avoid controlled airspace. When I flew it my plan was to land in shallow water. The beaches are tempting but they are covered with people. Parking lots were probably full of cars.
 

Attachments

  • C4B179E3-1D73-45D3-B33F-02F478E3C25C.jpg
    C4B179E3-1D73-45D3-B33F-02F478E3C25C.jpg
    150.8 KB · Views: 32
Soo-Valley said:
I wonder if it did not hit the vehicle whether it would have been a good landing
Click to expand...

Probably would have been good. The local TV channel had a video from a camera in a car on the bridge. It showed a couple of seconds of the plane in the air and it seemed to be under control.

Why land on a bridge? The cars can’t get out of the way.
 
HopCar said:
Probably would have been good. The local TV channel had a video from a camera in a car on the bridge. It showed a couple of seconds of the plane in the air and it seemed to be under control.

Why land on a bridge? The cars can’t get out of the way.
Click to expand...

Everyone else has been landing on the roads and highways lately.
 
From 1000 feet or so, things happen pretty quick, especially if you are trying a restart.

Between the plane dynamics and nothing static on the ground, picking a place to land isn't easy.

That's why I preferred helos for low level work. Could emergency land in a bus/truck parking spot.
 
Here is a good video about the crash. In the short dash cam footage I had seen previously I noticed he didn’t have his flaps down. In this video you can see where his engine failed. He was well south of the bridge over a very crowded city. I think he was trying to land north of the bridge and didn’t extend his flaps to extend the glide.
 
I don’t like commenting on pilot choices until I have all the info. At first this looks like a series of bad choices. However, it’s possible that the pilot was unable to gain additional altitude after take off and possibly some one onboard was unable to swim. These possibilities could have put the pilot in this unfortunate situation.
 
“…possibly some one onboard was unable to swim.”
That might just explain why he didn’t put it in the water.
 
Don't know what other pilots were taught, but ditching a high wing/fixed gear was a last resort choice over solid ground as it all but guaranteed a flip.

Without water egress training, usually a bad idea on many levels.
 
Last edited:
Greetings,
Mr. ps. "...ditching a high wing/fixed gear was a last resort choice...". Other than the water, what other choice is there? Shallow water near beach, perhaps?
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. ps. "...ditching a high wing/fixed gear was a last resort choice...". Other than the water, what other choice is there? Shallow water near beach, perhaps?
Click to expand...

Shallow water might still flip the plane as well as soft sand.

I am not saying it shouldn't or couldn't be done, as trying to land in heavy traffic not going nearly as fast as your landing speed can be bad as seen..... or..... way worse by you surviving but killing others on the ground ( well, emotionally maybe).

I flew out of the same vicinity (Opa Locka airport) for 3.5 years in single engine helos. Almost every second till we hit the beach, pilots were one eye out for emergency landing spots. With a helo, there are way more options though. Much of my experience has been that private pilots are conscious of emergencies, just less paranoid or trained as military and most commercial guys.....and fixed wing less so than helo guys for good reason.

The helos I flew were amphib so the water, generally, was an option. Not far from there a friend had an engine failure and he turned and landed in the ICW. Dodging boats was still not as bad as a plane on a bridge. He did a nice autorotation and the USCG boat towed it to a boat ramp, they folded the blades and towed it back to the station. It was back flying in probably a day or two.

In my first 2 years I had a plane crash right in front of me at both Opa Locka and N. Perry airports. Both pretty ugly.
 
psneeld said:
Don't know what other pilots were taught, but ditching a high wing/fixed gear was a last resort choice over solid ground as it all but guaranteed a flip.

Without water egress training, usually a bad idea on many levels.
Click to expand...

I owned a 172 for several years and spent a lot of time flying over water. I did a lot of research on ditching and was pretty confident I could do it safely. The idea that a fixed gear plane will flip every time is just wrong. To avoid flipping any aircraft you want to enter the water with as little forward motion as possible.

My plan if I had to ditch the 172 was to land parallel with the waves. Prop the doors open before touch down. Seat belts tight. Use full flaps and hold the nose up like I was making a soft field landing.

Ditching of any aircraft actually has a very high survival rate. The fact that most fixed gear aircraft can fly slower than retractable aircraft may give them an advantage.

This video gives some good info on surviving a ditching.
 
Again, didn't say it was fatal or always a bad idea...but many pilots have a hard time landing period...kinda like captains and docking.

I am sorry for the comment on flipping, just my experience but the video verifies it not being as common as I thought.

Trying to assess exactly where the water surface is often the issue for pilots...even USCG pilots. Coupled with minimum forward speed without stalling into an uncontrolled situation....not good either. In my first 2 years in Miami, it felt like I flew on more airplane crashes than boat emergencies....

So while not always fatal or impossible, trying for land when available is often the preferred choice that I usually heard from the fixed wing guys. Even the guy in the video said if there is something better, by all means take it. No matter how you cut it, tough decision making in only a minute or two while actually handling the aircraft....usually a full time effort for low time pilots...throw in briefing the passengers and making radio calls....I am amazed at the statistics presented in their entirety....:D
 
Last edited:
Assuming the driver of the SUV saw the airplane, I wonder if he/she slowed, stopped, maintained speed or accelerated....
 
Here is another excellent analysis video published by the AOPA. It shows an animated view from the pilots seat.
 
I've got roughly 300 hours in the 172, a high percentage over ocean. For obvious reasons, ditching is not practiced, but neither is landing on Collins Ave. Myself, I cant imagine lining up and landing on ANY road in Dade County. I have landed on private roads, turf strips, too. An acquaintance did ditch a 172, 2 on board. No flipping, biggest issue was headset cord entanglement. Plane sank in deep water offshore.
Its got two doors, my choice for ditching...
 
diver dave said:
I've got roughly 300 hours in the 172, a high percentage over ocean. For obvious reasons, ditching is not practiced, but neither is landing on Collins Ave. Myself, I cant imagine lining up and landing on ANY road in Dade County. I have landed on private roads, turf strips, too. An acquaintance did ditch a 172, 2 on board. No flipping, biggest issue was headset cord entanglement. Plane sank in deep water offshore.
Its got two doors, my choice for ditching...
Click to expand...

For a career of flying over water with many pilots coming from civilian and Army backgrounds.... many did not feel comfy ditching.

We used to practice full autos to the water and it always was a high tension manuever but did give back a lot of confidence.

Annual underwater egress training was essential too to keep many comfortable with a career of over water flying.

But given the choice, I still think the normal reaction by most humans is head for dry land unless it is just a really bad decision. While ditching isn't necessarily a death sentence, I wonder what the survival rate is between land forced landings versus ditching as long as most of the parameters are similar.
 
Someone on utube who acted like they knew reported 88% of ocean ditchings were “successful”. Comparisons were made against river and lake ditchings also.

Lots of missing pieces here, including the part 121,135, 90 input. Maybe even excluding joh denver type accidents as a non-ditching.
 
Can't argue with someone who actually did research.... but the defining variable I would like to see added would be how many ditching are done in great conditions?....the same great conditions that may attract inexperienced pilots into flying that day.

How would those numbers look in less than perfect conditions?

Even with a high success number, I believe it is still human nature to avoid the water with an emergency if there is an alternative.
 
Last edited:
My cavalier, no raft single engine flights, are tempered by the sFL warm ocean and responsive USCG base in opaloca. [emoji106]
And, carried type 1 vests, not the silly TSO types
 
Last edited:
I am not making a comment in regards to this crash landing. I am only speaking to my own flying rules. If I am flying over water I am either high enough to make land with plenty of time to set up a landing or in a twin or flying a helicopter with floats or flying a float plane. I have lots of time in a helicopter and twin engines flying island to island in Hawaii. **** happens and it can happen at any time so I believe in minimizing the risk.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J. Landin
Wiring a 49 year old 34’ MT
Replies
27
Views
2K
J. Landin
J. Landin
A
Westerbeke not starting
Replies
16
Views
2K
High Wire
High Wire
J
Bluish smoke- oil or unburnt Fuel?
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
jefndeb
J
P
Flare-like fire suppression systems?
Replies
3
Views
915
Peter Pegasus
P
N
What Would You Have Done ?
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
N4061
N

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom