Sign and Glide Vs BoatUS towing

Invoices to members can be pretty creative, but usually are indicative that towing services arent inexpensive.

psneeld said:

Insurance companies have been doing this for years.

There were growing pains back when I was towing, hopefully all involved are happy now.

Not really too good to be true...the insurance company doesn't tow so you are still at the mercy of the guys actually on the water. They are just covering the $179 or so bucks instead of you buying the tow insurance directly....is it buried in your premium? Of course somehow, someway.

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In some cases it counts as a claim. Could raise rates. TBUS or Sea Tow will not. They use a company called Compass Marine who calls towers and gives them a CC # to charge the tow. They pay the non member fee so towers like it. TBUS revised policy to officially allow the service.

Marco Flamingo said:

Yes, $30 a year. I didn't ask about it when reviewing the policy or reading my declaration page. "Sign and Glide = $30." Based on the creepy name, I probably didn't want to know.

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Sounds like the "KY Option".

Yes, indeed check how the coverage works on your towing. We had an RV, a diesel pusher, that broke down in the wilds of Arizona. The highway patrol tried to call us a tow truck but weren’t able to find one big enough to do the job. I finally was able to get through to Geico, who we had towing insurance with, they said if they call the tow truck they cover the whole cost. But if someone else calls the tow truck they would only pay $400. They called a truck and we got towed and everything was fine. The final cost was over $2,000. So if the highway patrol had found us a tow truck we would have had to pay over $1,600. Good lesson to learn.

Got to remember that Boat US was bought out by GEICO in 2012, and they are starting to act more like an insurance company every day. Of course that is what they were in the first place, selling towing insurance and laying off their boat insurance to other companies-like progressive. The result of the new arrangement is towers having fewer boats available than in the Towboat US days. I don't know why(maybe a change in local tow operators) but there are definitely fewer towboats available in our area (Great Lakes). Possibly other factors are in play but Towboat US is not as effective as pre GEICO. I grabbed the sign & glide, for an extra $30 it is a steal. Maybe Progressive is planning some new approach, a new wholly owned towing service?

Jack2427 said:

Got to remember that Boat US was bought out by GEICO in 2012, and they are starting to act more like an insurance company every day. Of course that is what they were in the first place, selling towing insurance and laying off their boat insurance to other companies-like progressive. The result of the new arrangement is towers having fewer boats available than in the Towboat US days. I don't know why(maybe a change in local tow operators) but there are definitely fewer towboats available in our area (Great Lakes). Possibly other factors are in play but Towboat US is not as effective as pre GEICO. I grabbed the sign & glide, for an extra $30 it is a steal. Maybe Progressive is planning some new approach, a new wholly owned towing service?

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A gentle reminder that why they may seem to provide insurance, TowBoatUS and Seatow are not insurance. They are membership plans. They collect money from members and use it to pay tow providers who they contract with. The difference may seem to be mostly semantics, but a big legal difference too.

BruceK said:

Sounds like the "KY Option".

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"unlimited" towing is no longer "unlimited" unless you are willing to fight for it.
I know of one couple ... tow back from outside of the Bahamas to FL, one company handed off to a 2nd company, tried to turn it into salvage ..... The owner wrote a letter to BoatUS about their definition of 'unlimited'.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Thinking "Slip and Slide?"

Sounds like a horrible idea to me, but then so does Progressive.

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Curious what is so horrible about Progressive or this towing poilcy.

So I have Seatow, BoatUS, and my Chubb policy includes towing. Why 3 you might ask. First, I like to support the local guy with Seatow and also want the BoatUS guys to stay in business. But most importantly, if it's a simple tow where there wouldn't be an insurance claim from damaging my boat, I'd rather the insurance company (Chubb) not know about it. Considering the price of fuel these days, the cost of Seatow and BoatUS towing is a rounding error.

Ted

backinblue said:

Curious what is so horrible about Progressive or this towing poilcy.

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Wifey B: Progressive has clauses in their policies that I wouldn't want and also practices in handling of claims. I just wouldn't choose them as a marine insurer. Pau Hana has addressed the issue mildly here before. If you've read the entire policy and are happy, great. Hubby is going to elaborate.

Hubby B: Typical progressive policy, inadequate pollution coverage, not up to federal standards, depreciation/deductible factor on both full losses and partial, very limited salvage, very low medical and personal effects coverage, very low limits on older boats.

My limited experience is that they charge less because they provide less.

O C Diver said:

So I have Seatow, BoatUS, and my Chubb policy includes towing. Why 3 you might ask. First, I like to support the local guy with Seatow and also want the BoatUS guys to stay in business. But most importantly, if it's a simple tow where there wouldn't be an insurance claim from damaging my boat, I'd rather the insurance company (Chubb) not know about it. Considering the price of fuel these days, the cost of Seatow and BoatUS towing is a rounding error.

Ted

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Jeez, maybe it's me, but in a lifetime of boating, I've only required 1 short tow and that was for a new to me sailboat. On the first longer cruise, the fuel pickup filter in the tanks clogged with dog hair. The previous owner was an older woman liveaboard with a dog, and over time I guess hair must have gotten blown into the fuel inlet during fueling. Talking about multiple tow services and supporting the local economy seems like it must be a regular occurence for some. Actually, considering the cost of fuel, a tow may be cheaper than running your engine!

O C Diver said:

So I have Seatow, BoatUS, and my Chubb policy includes towing. Why 3 you might ask. First, I like to support the local guy with Seatow and also want the BoatUS guys to stay in business. But most importantly, if it's a simple tow where there wouldn't be an insurance claim from damaging my boat, I'd rather the insurance company (Chubb) not know about it. Considering the price of fuel these days, the cost of Seatow and BoatUS towing is a rounding error.

Ted

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You are like us with cruising in many areas. We want to be able to use the nearest tow boat if we ever need one. In some areas that might be Seatow and in others TowboatUS.

We think of the tow on our insurance policy for far different kinds of towing, off shore, major accidents, Europe.

In my mind, half the reason to pay for the tow membership is to make sure they're available to pick up the idiots that don't check if they have gas or a decently working engine before departing. Saves the rest of us from having to deal with the idiots as often.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Progressive has clauses in their policies that I wouldn't want and also practices in handling of claims. I just wouldn't choose them as a marine insurer. Pau Hana has addressed the issue mildly here before. If you've read the entire policy and are happy, great. Hubby is going to elaborate.

Hubby B: Typical progressive policy, inadequate pollution coverage, not up to federal standards, depreciation/deductible factor on both full losses and partial, very limited salvage, very low medical and personal effects coverage, very low limits on older boats.

My limited experience is that they charge less because they provide less.

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Thanks B's. Like most things, you get what you pay for. I didn't do in-depth research and certainly did not read the entire policy, but they were reasonably priced and checked the boxes. Didn't even need to see a survey or a boating resume, maybe because my boat was fairly new and not that big? I know that's not the smartest way to buy insurance, but then again my boat is not worth so much that a total loss would change my life, but it is insured for what I paid for it. I know liability is another issue, but I have what I consider adequate coverage. Also, I did read the sign and glide info and I don't see why that is such a bad thing.

backinblue said:

Thanks B's. Like most things, you get what you pay for. I didn't do in-depth research and certainly did not read the entire policy, but they were reasonably priced and checked the boxes. Didn't even need to see a survey or a boating resume, maybe because my boat was fairly new and not that big? I know that's not the smartest way to buy insurance, but then again my boat is not worth so much that a total loss would change my life, but it is insured for what I paid for it. I know liability is another issue, but I have what I consider adequate coverage. Also, I did read the sign and glide info and I don't see why that is such a bad thing.

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Sign and glide is a bad deal when you're sitting waiting for them to assign it and something to happen while with Seatow and TowBoatUS you know who you're dealing with. It adds one more layer.

I just don't understand on something as major as boat insurance when one says "I didn't do in-depth research and certainly did not read the entire policy". You promise me to do that lack of reading and I'll give you an even cheaper policy, but I'll be highly unlikely to ever pay out. You say you have enough liability, but you likely only have half the environmental you could be held responsible for. Most Progressive policies are about half the statutory limit. Most charges are either very little or the statutory limit. How can you say you have adequate coverage when you haven't even read the policy? I'd hate a policy that is only going to pay me a small percentage of the cost of a rail that gets damaged or small percentage of the cost of the electronics that get stolen, because they're both so old.

Please, people, read or pay someone else to do so, whether it's a purchase agreement on a boat or house, a deed on a house, insurance on your home or boat or your life. Whatever it is. Insurers have gone to great lengths to put everything they can think of in the policy and it's those smallest line items that can haunt you horribly and cost you 20 times or 100 times what you saved on one accident.

When an insurer is able to price lower, most of the time it means the policy includes less. That's fine if you have a thorough understand of what less is.

I had my boat insured through Progressive for the first couple of years. I'm almost positive my environmental coverage was up to the statutory limit. That may have been extra beyond their cheapest policies though.

That is why I passed on a Progressive quote even though it was half of what I was paying in premiums.

Their coverage was half as good and some limits including environmental could not be raised.

But hey, same several, lower rates?... go for it.

My philosophy was use the same insurance as people I know who paid layers to review their policies.....because I could barely afford the insurance let alone lawyer review. I also knew I can't afford bad insurance.

backinblue said:

Jeez, maybe it's me, but in a lifetime of boating, I've only required 1 short tow and that was for a new to me sailboat. On the first longer cruise, the fuel pickup filter in the tanks clogged with dog hair. The previous owner was an older woman liveaboard with a dog, and over time I guess hair must have gotten blown into the fuel inlet during fueling. Talking about multiple tow services and supporting the local economy seems like it must be a regular occurence for some. Actually, considering the cost of fuel, a tow may be cheaper than running your engine!

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In 4,000+ days at sea (underway), I've been towed three times. Operator error and lack of preventive maintenance aren't the only things that cause a towing necessity. The guys who bought my charter boat, had a valve spring break last fall. The piston hit the hanging valve, broke the connecting rod, and punched a hole through the oil pan. $hit happens. Given enough time underway, the possibility of a tow starts to become probable.

Ted

O C Diver said:

In 4,000+ days at sea (underway), I've been towed three times. Operator error and lack of preventive maintenance aren't the only things that cause a towing necessity. The guys who bought my charter boat, had a valve spring break last fall. The piston hit the hanging valve, broke the connecting rod, and punched a hole through the oil pan. $hit happens. Given enough time underway, the possibility of a tow starts to become probable.

Ted

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You hope to never use it. You hope to never use insurance. I'm hoping my investment in life insurance continues to be a horrible investment for decades. The fact is that most boaters will need a tow and one tow can cost more than 10 or 20 years of tow membership.

Another very subtle benefit of tow membership. You have a mechanical issue. Yes, perhaps you can fix it or do some temporary fix of some sort and make it to a dock. However, you might put yourself a bit at peril while doing so or you might cause further damage on the way in. Horrible vibration of unknown cause so you persevere and damage multiples dramatically. Steering problem so you use engines to steer and works great until right at the dock, then thousands in damage. Tows can be great preventive measures. So much of the time if cruising the ICW you have a problem and you're far better off towed to the marina and working on it there than trying to work on it where you are, drifting or anchored. You don't know the extent of damage yet. Sometimes back at the dock, the fix is so simple, 30 minutes and all done. But sometimes you find it's far greater than you realized. Sometimes shutting the engine down is what saves you. So, don't just get tow membership, if you need a tow, don't hesitate to get it.

insurance costs

have read the whole thread
thanks to all posters.

My take

You convinced me to sign up with both providers
Already a BoatUS Gold will do the same with SeaTow

Living in NC with shifting sandbars and unreliable markers, running aground is just part of boating costs.

thanks

I am boating on Lake Champlain this summer and verified that there is an independent tow operator that works with sign and glide.

Davil1 said:

have read the whole thread
thanks to all posters.

My take

You convinced me to sign up with both providers
Already a BoatUS Gold will do the same with SeaTow

Living in NC with shifting sandbars and unreliable markers, running aground is just part of boating costs.

thanks

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That's always been our choice, to go with both, due to the amount of travel we do. We also like to reward them both a bit just for being around and available. I think today's boater takes them for granted and is unaware of how difficult it previously was and the outrageous things some of the independent tow providers prior to them would pull. Bills would quickly explode into the thousands and tens of thousands. Salvage claims would be placed. They are one of the true added benefits of the last 50 years or so and remain very reasonably priced.

I have Sign and Drive through my Progressive marine policy, but have never had to use it. I also keep a TowBoatUs policy because I *have* had to use it before, and it paid out completely and promptly. A few years ago I had to use an independent tow service (actually a dive service) because I was in the middle of nowhere in Louisiana. Thought I had wrapped something around the prop but the divers found nothing. Turns out my trans had seized up, so the divers slowly towed me about 5 miles to the nearest dock with their smallish 20’ boat. I sent the $800 bill in to get reimbursed (not feeling very hopeful) a few days after the tow, and it was promptly paid, no questions asked.

I generally despise buying insurance, but towing insurance I’m happy to pay for. Plus it seems pretty cheap.

cardude01 said:

I have Sign and Drive through my Progressive marine policy, but have never had to use it. I also keep a TowBoatUs policy because I *have* had to use it before, and it paid out completely and promptly. A few years ago I had to use an independent tow service (actually a dive service) because I was in the middle of nowhere in Louisiana. Thought I had wrapped something around the prop but the divers found nothing. Turns out my trans had seized up, so the divers slowly towed me about 5 miles to the nearest dock with their smallish 20’ boat. I sent the $800 bill in to get reimbursed (not feeling very hopeful) a few days after the tow, and it was promptly paid, no questions asked.

I generally despise buying insurance, but towing insurance I’m happy to pay for. Plus it seems pretty cheap.

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And a reminder, it is not towing insurance. It's a membership program. Seems like semantics, but it's really a significant difference. Likely akin to early days before insurance, as such, existed, where businesses or individuals just joined together to pool risks.

Memberships can be very nice or very bad, a few examples to follow. Business join chambers of commerce or professional organizations. We own some Ace hardware stores, they are not franchises but it's a cooperative, membership. Many are members of religious organizations.

Then a membership idea that has often gone from good to bad. HOA's. Concept is great, join together for common good. Execution involves boards gone crazy and a bit of a warning that member government of membership organizations is often bad. The towing memberships have been managed and run well. We actually live and participate in one of the few HOA's with happy members. Ours is 100% voluntary. Just the majority of the community pitches in on security. HOA doesn't own land, only a very small patch. Perhaps the lesson is a good membership organization is voluntary and sticks to it's purpose. We have 315 homes in our community, small guard house, and security patrol. They don't try to or have any right to control anything else or to collect any mandatory fees.

I often wonder if tow insurance is sort of a east vs west thing. I don't know many who have it on the west coast. In my 35 years of big boats I have never had tow insurance, is because folks have a lack of mechanical skills, or wont go over the side if a prop is fouled, they plain wont work on their boats, or wont work to get themselves off after a grounding. I'm not attempting to be a smart ass (like I tend to be) but genuinely wish to understand. We plan to do the loop/Caribbean and who knows where in the near future.
In the 35+ years we have experienced all the things that most folks typically us a tow company but have always figured it out and made do without. Never been towed in by anybody.
Hollywood

hollywood8118 said:

I often wonder if tow insurance is sort of a east vs west thing. I don't know many who have it on the west coast. In my 35 years of big boats I have never had tow insurance, is because folks have a lack of mechanical skills, or wont go over the side if a prop is fouled, they plain wont work on their boats, or wont work to get themselves off after a grounding. I'm not attempting to be a smart ass (like I tend to be) but genuinely wish to understand. We plan to do the loop/Caribbean and who knows where in the near future.
In the 35+ years we have experienced all the things that most folks typically us a tow company but have always figured it out and made do without. Never been towed in by anybody.
Hollywood

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Yes, we are weenies about going under the boat to clear a prop here on the east coast, we don’t maintain anything worth a damn, and we can’t drive our boats without grounding them every other weekend.

I broke down basically in a Louisiana swamp full of gators, so was a bit reticent about hopping overboard. Y’all have swamps and gators over there?

We also have a thing called the ICW over here, which is a narrow trench that has shallow sides and sandbars everywhere. Come check it out!

[emoji849]


Full disclosure, I *am* attempting to be a smart ass!

cardude01 said:

Yes, we are weenies about going under the boat to clear a prop here on the east coast, we don’t maintain anything worth a damn, and we can’t drive our boats without grounding them every other weekend.

I broke down basically in a Louisiana swamp full of gators, so was a bit reticent about hopping overboard. Y’all have swamps and gators over there?

We also have a thing called the ICW over here, which is a narrow trench that has shallow sides and sandbars everywhere. Come check it out!

[emoji849]


Full disclosure, I *am* attempting to be a smart ass!

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No Kidding?


I have always wondered about the towing difference between east and west, It has appeared when we did boat in the east towing boats (both the two big associations and a ton of freelancers) were everywhere.
Out here you rarely see one.
I have never personally been in the water with Gators,

Crocs, seals,whales,sea snakes, every kind of shark, sea lions, cudas but no gaters... are they worse?


HW

hollywood8118 said:

No Kidding?


I have always wondered about the towing difference between east and west, It has appeared when we did boat in the east towing boats (both the two big associations and a ton of freelancers) were everywhere.
Out here you rarely see one.
I have never personally been in the water with Gators,

Crocs, seals,whales,sea snakes, every kind of shark, sea lions, cudas but no gaters... are they worse?


HW

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Two major differences. One is the type of water. ICW is a dug ditch, lots of shallow areas, lots of shoals. You can run aground and need help to get off. Easy to not just foul or destroy props but all running gear.

Second difference is availability of services. Tow memberships are used in the Puget Sound area, just not generally for offshore running. Now, those on the East Coast are astonished to see the Coast Guard two boats on the West Coast. The CG does not do that on the East Coast. Boat 10 miles offshore, CG will rescue the people but leave the boat for a tow service and if one doesn't have a tow membership then the cost will be thousands. CG on the East Coast isn't going to tow you in.

hollywood8118 said:

No Kidding?


I have always wondered about the towing difference between east and west, It has appeared when we did boat in the east towing boats (both the two big associations and a ton of freelancers) were everywhere.
Out here you rarely see one.
I have never personally been in the water with Gators,

Crocs, seals,whales,sea snakes, every kind of shark, sea lions, cudas but no gaters... are they worse?


HW

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Yes, gators are much worse. [emoji51]