Horseshoe, Ring, or Lifesling?

What's your MOB "throw to" of choice?

We had a Lifesling setup on our cutter and our new (to us) trawler currently has an old horseshoe. The HS is ratty looking and we're looking to replace it - Question is, what should we replace it with? I like the fact that the Lifesling comes in its own case and is protected from the elements, but that also makes for one extra step when deploying. I also think that a ring or horseshoe is also easier to deploy (throw). Any advantages to one over another aside from cost?

I realize that this can get as personal as "What's the best anchor?", but I am interested to hear which people prefer and why.

We carry a ring with a long (floating) line attached. It's not only for recovery, but it's in the water any time someone goes swimming, that way there's something to grab onto that's tethered to the boat if needed.

I figure a Lifesling would be of limited utility for us, as other than the soon to be installed dinghy davits, we have no lifting tackle like a sailboat would. So getting someone out of the water will rely on getting them onto the swim platform rather than hoisting them 4 feet up onto the deck.

Any device you pick needs to be considered as part of the system you will use to get a helpless MOB back safely aboard. Think person knocked unconscious or in cold water (not likely in Placida). There have been plenty of discussions here over the years about how to recover a person, especially if it is a woman recovering a male partner in a high freeboard vessel like a trawler. A ring is probably not going to be too usefull in such a situation - you would want something which could be arranged under the armpits of the MOB, even if it required jumping in to do it or managing it from the swim platform (goes to my objection to cluttering swim steps with thinks like dinghies).

rgano said:

(goes to my objection to cluttering swim steps with thinks like dinghies).

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I've had that same thought many times. When lifted in the davits my dinghy would mostly block use of the swim platform (someone could climb onto it, but not up onto the boat). So I've made sure the davit setup is done such that the dinghy can be very quickly dropped in the water by just releasing the lines, one end un-clipped and the dinghy swung out of the way of the boarding ladder.

rslifkin said:

I've had that same thought many times. When lifted in the davits my dinghy would mostly block use of the swim platform (someone could climb onto it, but not up onto the boat). So I've made sure the davit setup is done such that the dinghy can be very quickly dropped in the water by just releasing the lines, one end un-clipped and the dinghy swung out of the way of the boarding ladder.

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And ya know, that dink might well be the best way to recover a MOB!

In Canada, required safety equipment includes a life ring, on a 15m floating line but NOT Lifesling or Horseshoe, though those both qualify for the requirement to have a floating heaving line of 15m.
In the US the regs may be different.
Getting into a ring while in the water is no more difficult than getting into Lifesling or a Horseshoe. and as with all safety equipment, practice creates familiarity with the equipment.

koliver said:

In Canada, required safety equipment includes a life ring, on a 15m floating line but NOT Lifesling or Horseshoe, though those both qualify for the requirement to have a floating heaving line of 15m.
In the US the regs may be different.
Getting into a ring while in the water is no more difficult than getting into Lifesling or a Horseshoe. and as with all safety equipment, practice creates familiarity with the equipment.

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15m floating line is not long enough. Not even close to be honest.

STEP 1 in a MOB event is to establish contact between the victim and the veseel. Lifesling is designed so the boat can circle the victim and the line comes to them. Recommendation is the line is at least 3x the LOA of the vessel. Lifesling comes with 150-feet.

STEP 2 is getting the victim back aboard. Only the LIfesling can be used as a lift-harness, though you may need mechanical advantage to re-board the victim.

I carry a Lifesling with 5-part dedicated lifting tackle, and a heaving bag. In my opinion, a heaving bag is a great choice vs a ring that takes an unpredictable flight path when tossed, especially with adverse wind. Here's a good demo by Chuck Hawley of West Marine fame.

Peter

https://youtu.be/T_Fc96Faqxw

How do folks like to mount / carry a ring?

Life slings and throwable devices serve different purposes. The life sling is used to aid in getting the person back aboard. A throwable is to get the MOB something to help with flotation while you pull them to the vessel with the attached line. Very important in rough weather with wind blowing.

For use by relatively untrained and inexperienced persons I like something like the Rescue Throw Stick Getting a life ring to a MOB in adverse conditions take a bit more practice and skill than many appreciated. On the other hand the throw stick is just that, a throw stick. Pretty much anyone knows how to throw a stick for a dog.

Hmmmmm...mix and matching systems/items and proper line length, getting "into" a ring?..... needing a throwable be part of a recovery system???? (OK if it means procedure with multiple components).... can't say much posted would fit my experiences....

I would recommend slowing down and thinking "procedure" and type of occurrence...then add the components as necessary to fit the circumstances you foresee in your cruising style and crew capability.

We have two rings actually and three throwables (seat cushion style really). I know horseshoes wouldn't be so common if they weren't effective in some situations, but rings always seemed easier and more useful to me for a weakened MOB. If somebody is near frozen or injured, fooling with the tether across the ends of the horseshoe, even if it's just a plastic quick-clip, has always seemed like an unnecessary complication, and I don't know how you lift somebody out with a horseshoe, or at the very least, don't risk snapping the tether across the ends of the horseshoe during the lifting/pulling. This is an old, pretty poor quality video but illustrates what I mean.

DWJensen said:

What's your MOB "throw to" of choice?

We had a Lifesling setup on our cutter and our new (to us) trawler currently has an old horseshoe. The HS is ratty looking and we're looking to replace it - Question is, what should we replace it with? I like the fact that the Lifesling comes in its own case and is protected from the elements, but that also makes for one extra step when deploying. I also think that a ring or horseshoe is also easier to deploy (throw). Any advantages to one over another aside from cost?

I realize that this can get as personal as "What's the best anchor?", but I am interested to hear which people prefer and why.

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Lifesling is great, easy to deploy and does not get tangled like a coiled line hooked to a ring out in the open can. The downside is that the case is not UV protected and will deteriorate in 3 years in the Caribbean. We had a bimini made and our canvas guy custom made a over-case out of matching sunbrella which he "threw in for free" which was nice! Sadly I sold it with the boat, should have kept it for my current one.

Lifesling is no replacement for a decent throwable and a decent throwable is no replacement for a toss stick, bag, whatever....and they are not replacements for a lifesling or equivalent.

3 different needs, 3 different tools.....some overlap but not always.

psneeld said:

Lifesling is no replacement for a decent throwable and a decent throwable is no replacement for a toss stick, bag, whatever....and they are not replacements for a lifesling or equivalent.

3 different needs, 3 different tools.....some overlap but not always.

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Agree. For us throwable + Lifesling. When we go offshore we will add a stick. I had to make my own to cross the Atlantic when I was stuck in the Canaries with no ability to source one. I had a local RIB shop make this up with a gas cannister. Here is the 'sea trial'

Recently had a MOB on purpose for a swim around the anchored boat. Me, I suspect all may not be well, so grab the ring attached to 15m of line and toss it within reach. MOB grabs it and swims back to the boat.
Few words were exchanged, thanks was one of them.

You never know when you need to use what you have on board, practice is a must with the gear you have. Have you ever recovered a ball cap, try it. That lifeless cap is your better half, get it before it sinks.

DWJensen said:

What's your MOB "throw to" of choice?

We had a Lifesling setup on our cutter and our new (to us) trawler currently has an old horseshoe. The HS is ratty looking and we're looking to replace it - Question is, what should we replace it with? I like the fact that the Lifesling comes in its own case and is protected from the elements, but that also makes for one extra step when deploying. I also think that a ring or horseshoe is also easier to deploy (throw). Any advantages to one over another aside from cost?

I realize that this can get as personal as "What's the best anchor?", but I am interested to hear which people prefer and why.

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not necessarily answering your question,when I bought my new/old boat came with a mounted sling,was badly damaged by the UV
looking at a bag replacement was surprised the cost.

The following are current quoted prices on WM

LIFESLING–Replacement Storage Bags for Lifesling2
(30)4 stars, 30 Reviews, skips to reviews
Prices from $64.99 - To$99.99
Select Product:

Replacement Storage Bag for Lifesling2, Original White Vinyl $64.99
$64.99

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Decided on a Ring,take it home if the boat will not be used for several months.

Besides looks more "nautical" :lol:

Why not both?

Sailed and ocean raced all my life on pretty good boats. Several Bermuda Races, Fastnet, SORC etc. All of our boats had at least 2 of each, which is undoubtedly overkill, but cannot imagine the reasoning behind “one or the other”. They don’t take up any space and if you need to grab and throw in a crisis, most important is how and where you steer, but just the ability to throw is paramount. I wouldn’t worry about how to get someone aboard, I would worry about how to save their life. If you don’t study how to keep a boat on station, you are missing the largest part of the conversation. I have two of each on board, and they service both port and starboard sides. I have no idea why anyone would equivocate and decide on one or the other. Just based upon my years of experience.

JYoung said:

Sailed and ocean raced all my life on pretty good boats. Several Bermuda Races, Fastnet, SORC etc. All of our boats had at least 2 of each, which is undoubtedly overkill, but cannot imagine the reasoning behind “one or the other”. They don’t take up any space and if you need to grab and throw in a crisis, most important is how and where you steer, but just the ability to throw is paramount. I wouldn’t worry about how to get someone aboard, I would worry about how to save their life. If you don’t study how to keep a boat on station, you are missing the largest part of the conversation. I have two of each on board, and they service both port and starboard sides. I have no idea why anyone would equivocate and decide on one or the other. Just based upon my years of experience.

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I don't disagree with you generally on your main point -- finding and maneuvering to the MOB is the most immediate challenge of course. Just as you say, if you can't do that then any equipment is tragically useless. But assuming you've met that first challenge, I think equipment does matter. Thankfully I've never been in a real life retrieval crisis, but the nearest I can compare it to is my commercial diving days. After working like a dog all day underwater feeling neutrally buoyant, with a (Desco) helmet and a weight belt on, in the winter, you come out of the water and it feels like you weigh 900 lbs and all your muscles are shaky. When there wasn't a ladder available and a crane or davit would lift us up and out, we used rings -- big rings, or a wire lifting sling. One leg through a ring, or one foot in the eye of a sling, and we could ride it up. Of course a MOB is different, we never got our heads through the rings because they'd never fit over the helmet and water, air and radio lines, but it seems to me weakened people in the water need whatever equipment takes the least effort and agility to hang onto. We never used horseshoes to climb up and out. But maybe my perspective is skewed from personal experience.

A life ring is USCG required on CG inspected vessels and should be on all others. If you have ever had to throw one the life ring is the best (and I have).

The life sling is better once you get the person alongside.

fgarriso said:

A life ring is USCG required on CG inspected vessels and should be on all others. If you have ever had to throw one the life ring is the best (and I have).

The life sling is better once you get the person alongside.

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Not sure if everyone knows the ins and outs of a Lifesling and how they were designed to be used.

Lifeslings aren't only designed for alongside....there is a specific recommended technique when underway. Their drawback is if you are stationary. But are designed with lifting aboard if you can rig for it.

Rings are easy to toss, but most screw up the line payout or wind blowback on the line.

Thus my previous post saying there are types of gear best used while underway, best for throwing when stationary to get floatation out to a PIW and throw bags/balls/frisbees that are better throwables where the line is better managed, but their floatation isn't great. But it might not be necessary if the PIW already has floatation.

Lots of things to think about...rarely are emergencies "canned".

I am a retired licensed professional mariner (Oceans, Unlimited); I prefer a life ring as it is what I was "raised on". However my trawler also has a life sling. The ring may be easier to throw, but there is no comparison to the life sling in recovering someone from the water. I made a small davit that slips into a fishing rod holder that will lift 500 pounds to above the gunnel. It uses a hand crank and spool from boat trailer, welded onto the post that slips into the rod holder. Got the idea from the "boarding assist handle" that slips into the same holder. Davit is stowed under the starboard gunnel and can be mounted either side of the rear cockpit area in seconds. The whole set up can be effectively deployed by one person. Practice is certainly required, but the technique is easily mastered.
Training for everyone who departs with the vessel:
1. Keep watch on the PIW and throw life ring with line attached
2. Another person rigs life sling/davit
3. Maneuver as required to bring PIW alongside
4. Bring person back aboard with gear
MOB is one of the most common emergencies encountered by recreational boaters, and probably the one least trained for.
I am toying with the idea of attaching a water activated smoke cannister to the life ring(it already has a light), but under some conditions it can obscure the MOB and make things more difficult.
Know I am preaching to the choir, but MOB practice is probably the single most important thing you can do, other than make sure everyone knows where PFDs are-or wears one. I prefer the latter, but give adults the choice. I wear my inflatable and always have one for everyone on board to wear.
there is always one guest who tells everyone what a great swimmer he is(almost always a guy), I the order Hondo(80# English Setter) into the water and tell the guy "catch the dog". Hondo thinks out swimming any human is great fun and will circle the boat till he is coaxed out with a treat. No one has caught him yet.
With todays' inflatable PFDs there is really no excuse for not wearing one, when cruising even Hondo gets a PFD(with light and locating beacon). I am considering adding a MOB alarm to his PFD-of course he is the only one on board who might voluntarily go into the water unexpectedly-in spite of vigorous training to the contrary.
As a shipmaster I was roundly cussed out for requiring that any crew required by regs to wear a PFD, wear it totally tied or zipped up. But in 45 years I never lost a crew member, lost a whole ship once, but everyone survived. The only one that got wet was me.

Why the hoist (and life sling)? Why not via the swim deck?

I was actually practicing MOB today by coincidence. My Furuno has a MOB marker and the autopilot took it exactly to that spot (reasonably calm sea state with 10 knot winds).

Most people cruise as a couple and occasionally more but only on passage. Most MOBs don’t get to drown they die of hypothermia or cardiac events from thermal shock even in the summer in many areas. Speed of recovery is key. Being able to recover without the assistance of the MOB is important. Having the MOB horizontal as soon as possible upon recovery is important. Many times it takes awhile to become aware of a MOB situation. No one can swim back to a moving boat. The most fit individual can swim only at a few knots for a relatively short distance.
We carry a MOM-8, a lifesling, personal AIS and epirb and a raft. However inspite of having done SAS you become complacent. You end up not wearing a pfd to which the AIS/personal epirb is attached.
We practice mob drills with just the two of us.
Hit the button look for MOB
Stop the boat.
If found head toward them. If not sighted
Drop the MOM. We both know to head to the mom if possible. It should drift similarly as the mob and is much easier to spot from the boat.
Call SAR
Commence search
We have a block and tackle specifically for MOB. If MOB found circle with life sling out. If they can assist decrease circle and slow down to stop so they can grab it. If unconscious don’t use sling but rather boat hook to pull them in. Our pfds have harnesses. Will don one and clip in. Don’t want us both in the water. Rig block and tackle. Pull them in to lie horizontal on swim platform. Do CPR if necessary and await SAR response or if alert bring into aft cockpit lying down and warm as necessary.
Of course would modify depending upon setting, water temperature, sea state, condition of mob etc.
Think depending upon the mob to assist in a meaningful way(climb up swim ladder or swim to the boat or pull themselves up the side of the boat) may lead to tragedy. Think if the larger male goes over or crew isn’t extremely fit similarly mechanical advantage will likely be required to recover the victim.
We have a life ring. Think it’s of limited utility.

bowball said:

Why the hoist (and life sling)? Why not via the swim deck?
I was actually practicing MOB today by coincidence. My Furuno has a MOB marker and the autopilot took it exactly to that spot (reasonably calm sea state with 10 knot winds).

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Hypothermia is a big concern in the Atlantic if water temps are below 60F. You are not going to be able to lift a hypothermic person onto a swim platform thus a hoist is necessary. If they were not wearing a life jacket they will quickly be exhausted staying afloat and won't have the strength to climb a ladder.

Lifesling has a very long floating line and if you circle a conscious person they can grab it and slip the lifesling over their head.

You will not be able to see a person's head in the typical 3-4' afternoon chop so if you see them go over and push MOB button asap it they have a chance, otherwise... Have a locator beacon strapped to each inflatable vest.

In areas with cold water, etc. I generally worry more about how to minimize the risk of someone ending up in the water than anything. In general, when underway outside of very protected waters, nobody is allowed to be anywhere on the boat where it would take less than a truly spectacular situation to put them overboard. That means nobody on the side decks, bow, etc. Seeing the way some people operate (particularly on boats with very narrow side decks and very low or no rails) always shocks me.

As far as getting someone onto the swim platform, if you've got davits (and they're strong enough) it may be possible to drop the dinghy and use the davits to hoist a person onto the swim platform. Still have to worry about getting them the rest of the way on board, but at least that's a start to getting them out of the water.

I want to expand the conversation beyond the very important concept of pressing the MOB button. Consider leaving tracking on full time at a reasonably granular interval.. This is particularly important if all aboard are not wearing PFDs equipped with automatically activated tracking devices.

Unless you are aware of the overboard situation the moment it happens you will be some distance away by the time you hit the MOB button. Speed back to the MOB position and scan the water surface. If the person is not found then begin your search on your track line. If you are aware of set and drift now you know which side of the track line to focus on.

Keep in mind that even at the relatively sedate speed trawlers travel at you could loose sight of the MOB very quickly. It's easy to envision the overboard happening 3, 5 or even 10 minutes before you are aware. We generally cruise at 7.5 kts. Every minute we travel 253 yards.

A person in the water unless they are waving their arms will only present their head for you to spot. In colder climates and water they may be fully dressed in warm clothing and be floating / swimming even lower.

If you don't have a feeling for what this means toss something in the water about the size of your head a dull color. Fenders aren't good because they float higher and are usually bright colors. Keep an eye on it as you cruise away at your normal speed. Next time ramp the drill up a bit. The person not at the wheel tosses the dummy overboard and waits several minutes. Then calmly walks to the helm station and says "I've fallen overboard. Find me!". On a calm day with the sun overhead this will be relatively easy even with 5 or more minutes delay. Then try it with the sun low and the wind kicking up a chop.

Many of us are cruising couples with no one else aboard. Half the crew is overboard leaving one person to manage the entire recovery process. If you don't think there is a lot to do then you haven't been doing drills.

• Hit the MOB button.
• Note the time. You'll need this if it becomes a search exercise to estimate where the person is due to set and drift.
• If you're not wearing a PFD now is the time to put it on, the risk of falling over while trying to recover the other is real.
• If your autopilot will take you to the MOB position great! If not get on your track line and head for the MOB mark.
• At the MOB mark slow or stop. If you don't see the person get the binocs out and scan back along the track line.
• If you still don't see the person start running your track line in reverse at reduced speed. Scanning with the binocs.
• Make the emergency call.
• Has this become a search? Now your track line takes on another importance, showing you where you've searched.
• Do you need to step outside for a full view? If so yet another reason to have your PFD on.
• Upon locating the person now position the boat and rig the recovery gear. Keeping in mind that if you are a cold water cruiser and there has been any delay in becoming aware of the overboard situation the person could have been in the water for a long time and become weakened to the point they are not able to help themselves.

You may find it surprising how challenging it is on the first drill or two. But it's not rocket surgery. You'll both get it and become very efficient at it very quickly. I've watched inexperienced crews go from flailing ineffectively on first drill to being able to manage the drill very efficiently in a full gale in winter.

All excellent thoughts. The Nordic Tug 37 has a 24" swim platform, and a very good swim ladder. And if the PIW can use it fine, but with a person that needs assistance that platform is a little too short for my preference, things can get very crowded on there. Some vessels have huge swim platforms which make life a little easier for many tasks. My thought is to get the MOB back inside the confines of the boat ASAP. totally agree with "punching the button" and letting the AP take one back to the scene. However having an SOP where someone actually watches the MOB is essential as sometimes electronics do not perform exactly as advertised, we rely on them, but not to the extent that I am ever unwilling to let them do the total job.
Hypothermia is always a grave concern in the Great lakes, remember the song from Gordon Lightfoot about the "Lake never gives up its' dead"? That is because Lake Superior is so cold almost all the time in 97% of its area a body that goes down is preserved and does not corrupt and rise to the surface. Using a hoist, with or without mechanical assist(block & tackle and/or winch) enables a small person with not all that much strength to effect a recovery. And while getting a MOB onto a swim platform is great, they are not back inside the boat yet, and if the person is unable to assist themselves or only barley so, they are most assuredly not yet out of danger, and anyone working on a swim platform in this situation is not working from an ideal location, usually having only one hand available for actual rescue work. My hoist davit can be swung aft to the platform, but why do that when the victim can be swung back into the confines of the boat? Many swim platform doors are not cut down to near the platform level-like mine is not, and this makes getting a partially or totally disabled person back into the boat a problem, even from the platform.
Harnesses, lights and MOB locaters on all PFDs is a no brainer, they cost money, sometimes very pricey for really good equipment, but one is weighing cost against what?
The really interesting thing about boats in general, and particularly trawlers is that they usually don't go all that fast, but when emergencies happen, things seem to go sideways very rapidly, and a boat making 6 knots gets far away from a MOB very quickly. Anything one can do to speed recovery is a good idea, and I don't have a corner on the good idea market, but I do have an idea that will enable under strength, and not totally sea able persons to effect a recovery.

bowball said:

Why the hoist (and life sling)? Why not via the swim deck?

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Decent article from West Marine explains the thinking:

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Selecting-Crew-Overboard-Equipment

Swim ladders and swim steps that are relatively easy to climb in flat water became lethal weapons with waves. “It is a serious mistake to assume that a swim platform is a safe or reliable rescue platform,” observed final report author John Rousmaniere. “With a Grand Banks 42, even a two-foot chop caused enough rolling to make it a sledgehammer.”​

Portage_Bay said:

Keep in mind that even at the relatively sedate speed trawlers travel at you could loose sight of the MOB very quickly. It's easy to envision the overboard happening 3, 5 or even 10 minutes before you are aware. We generally cruise at 7.5 kts. Every minute we travel 253 yards.

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That's a very good point. Boats with significant areas of deck that can't be seen from the helm are at the most risk, I think. If you're up in a pilothouse, only 1 other person on board and they fall overboard from the cockpit, unless you've got a camera to see it, you may not know for a while afterwards.

Personally, I follow the rule that if anyone is outside of the cabin or the upper bridge deck while underway, I watch them the entire time, even for sedate tasks like setting fenders in calm water coming into the marina.

rslifkin said:

Personally, I follow the rule that if anyone is outside of the cabin or the upper bridge deck while underway, I watch them the entire time, even for sedate tasks like setting fenders in calm water coming into the marina.

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We don't have cameras and there are areas that cannot be seen at all times. Our rule is "I'm going (on deck, to the fly bridge or any other exterior out of sight of the other area)." That puts the other on notice to be aware of the possibility of a MOB situation. We cruise Wa, BC and Ak. Cold water year round with few exceptions. The potential for high winds and strong currents. Time is of the essence.