Helmsman
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2020
- Messages
- 1,092
- Location
- Chattanooga
- Vessel Name
- Mishy Jean
- Vessel Make
- Helmsman Trawler 38E
Thanks. I will look at it some more.
For what its worth, I am now heading toward a Vulcan. It was toward an Ultra. I didn't think I could make a Vulcan fit well. Scott showed me otherwise. Substantial difference in cost, and the Vulcan tests better in the kind of bottom I expect. It will take the most minor bit of roller surgery. There is a bale bar across the front, that is too low for a Vulcan. I'll replace it with a hoop style bale. From what I see the cost is about $30 and its a 15 min project at most.
One of the few annoyances of our previous boat was the lack of storage space in areas where I knew there was a void. Helmsman has done a nice job of tastefully fitting areas out that you wouldn't normally see on many boats. A likely reason is the cost to build these out.
The cabinets to the left of the day head will be used for guests when they stay over on the boat. That will allow for folded clothes to be placed in there.
Just another example of the thought and quality that goes into these boats.
Any pictures to share?
Space is important but good space utilization such as you're describing is so critical. Some houses still don't use to top area over kitchen cabinets and it always annoys me. I remember offices built with rows of file cabinets but they only went up 5 or 6'. That, of course, was in the days of file cabinets. Something else made obsolete by technology as we have fewer cabinets per 100 people today than per person years ago.
On a boat, there should be no usable space not used.
Here are some photos of “Alba Bella”, hull number 50. We’re about a month behind Helmsman’s hull 49. Still no engine and no firm estimate on completion.
/QUOTE]
Doug,
I really like that picture from the bow of your boat. I have said so before, but really like your hull color. When assessing boats we made a trip to American Tug in your home town. We saw a color similar to yours on one of their boats and really liked it.
We went with the Kingston Gray because of being in the southern climes. The sun can do a bit of a number on darker hulls down here. May not be an issue since we are planning on using the Permanon ceramic coating on ours.
I don't think you are very far behind our build at all. The woodwork progress looks to be about the same as mine.
FWT, can you explain the Bale bar a bit further? Is that something on the boat, or on the anchor. Might be obvious, but not sure what you mean. Thanks! Nate
I agree about space on a boat but not sure I get your point about kitchen cabinets. Yes I have unsued space over mine, but I wouldn't be able to reach it anyway. Not sure what I would store there?
At the forward tip of the roller assembly, on top, a bale or bail (I've seen it spelled both ways, so if searching do try both) is something that holds an anchor down at the shaft. It prevents the anchor from bouncing out or being pushed up and out by waves when pounding ahead.
If you look closely at Helmsman pics you can see holes. It has a bail bar that is removable.
The Vulcan shaft is curved, so the top edge of it rises high when pulled into place. The shaft of the standard Bruce style is straight so its not an issue with a bar.
Do a search of pics on rollers and you will find numerous examples of rollers with a half round bail.
A quick search for me yielded this.
https://kingstonanchors.com/products/bails-for-bow-rollers
I figure I'll take delivery of the boat, get the anchor installed without a bail, take measurements, make a choice and order, and replace the bar with something like one of those.
Note that some anchors really snug nice and tight by being pressed against a roller platform or something. On occasion I see it against a bail. The anchor wedged in. I can't know exactly what will work. What I do know is a Vulcan will fit, but not under a bail bar. I do want a bail of some kind for safety, and will just figure out that detail later.
PS, edited to add: will send you some pics Scott provided of a Vulcan on a H38
You have plenty of things in most kitchens that are seldom used and easy to use small ladders. Now, I admit my height simplifies things.
Thanks. Looking forward to the pics.
So, it sounds like you are replacing/adding the anchor after the boat is delivered? Probably what I will do, so I have a spare on hand that could also be used in narrow anchorages as a stern anchor. A little heavy for that, but if the weather is rough, would be glad to have it.
Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?
Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?
Hmm, makes sense, RS. Something else to consider.Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.
I have done some light research on swivels. Quite a good discussion on the Mantus swivel on the AGLCA pay forum. There are a couple of guys on that site who are surveyors and cruisers who swear by them. They are pricey, but are supposed to be pretty bullet proof. The issue for swivels is their ability to handle side loading, which is where a lot of them fail. Doesn't appear to be an issue for the Mantus per some of the experts on that site. Since they recommend it, it is what I will go with when I replace the Bruce.
Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.
As a note on anchor retrieval with a Vulcan, I've found mine will self-orient just fine as long as it comes up something other than completely backwards. My roller setup is different than an H38 though. If it comes up sideways, it snaps upright as soon as it touches the roller. If it comes up perfectly backwards, it'll just hit the roller and stop. But a quick poke with a boat hook to get it to spin a little before it hits the roller does the trick.
In my case, I've got a mixed rode, so the issue is related to the chain getting re-loaded into the windlass in a random orientation any time I've gone past the chain part of the rode. So it may come up sideways one time, but straight the next time. If you've got all chain, the orientation in the windlass shouldn't change, so the anchor should spin back to the correct orientation every time on retrieval.
Good point, but with nothing more to go on YET than videos and reviews, the Vulcan shape creates a somewhat violent shift when it comes up backward and then swings to right itself. I fully expect to want and need one.
You have plenty of things in most kitchens that are seldom used and easy to use small ladders. Now, I admit my height simplifies things.
The self righting is definitely violent with the Vulcan from some positions. I've gotten in the habit of stopping the windlass right as the shank starts to hit the roller, letting it flip upright, then pulling it the last bit in. That generally makes it a bit less violent and saves it from banging around within the roller in the process.
Does it snug up tightly on your roller, or move around a bit?
Mine is on a through-pulpit roller. I had to cut a piece of metal out of the roller assembly and notch the pulpit itself to get the shank to fit nicely and pull far enough into the roller, but once I did that, it's a very snug fit. It snugs right up into the notch with no fussing and sits tightly against it with almost no movement.